Waratahs 2014

[Lee Grant]

Looks to me like Robinson is pulling while everyone else is pushing - get the backs out of the way

No backs in there IS. They were combing their hair, somewhere else.

It was interesting that Fat Cat (the player, not the forum member) took a couple of the scrum drills with the Invited Players involved. TPN also had a bit to say.

Cheika himself did the bulk of the scrum coaching: he goes from backs to forwards when they are split up.

Last year ex-Waratah Andrew Blades, who is in charge of Wallabies set-piece coaching, came in for several sessions and no doubt he will be showing up soon if he is not there already.

I wouldn't mind a wager that the Tahs would like to get Blades' opinion of the last prop to included in the Tahs' 35, but that's just a guess.

He probably goes to all the Oz Super teams and will likely be involved with the three Aussie Under 20 teams and the national Under 20 team chosen from those three.

Something I have forgotten to mention in my dribblings about the Tahs training: when they do choke tackle work or counter-rucking (for and against) and presenting the ball properly stuff, they do it in pods, usually of three or four attackers against the same number of defenders.

Just the forwards? No, all the backs as well—and mixed in too.
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[Blue]

You could be right Bruce. They seemed to have trouble with this first scrummaging effort on Thursday.

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View attachment 4352.

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I have figured out all Australia's scrum problems!

They forget to pack!Always suspected it just needs a minor tweak here and there

Invoice to ARU is in the post. I'll settle for the annual salary of all scrum coaches for the last ten years combined.

 

[Ruggo]

You could be right Bruce. They seemed to have trouble with this first scrummaging effort on Thursday.

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View attachment 4352.

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Looks like they are trying to fix something Lee (or staring at it hoping it will fix itself). One bloke has the tool in his hand and the others are standing around giving annoying advice.

 

[I like to watch]

Looks like they have all backed one in the third race at Randwick, and are riding it home.

 

[Pete King]

Any Idea on what positions are being looked at for the last two spots? front rowers Id presume?

 

[gowaratahs]

I'd be backing Talakai as the 5th prop, and Lam as the 3rd hooker. Roach is young, and doesn't play regularly as hooker (nor does Lam for that matter) so might be a work in progress - and I'd give big Johnson a wide berth (so to speak).

I not sure how they can fit Kaveinga or Hoiles in the squad, unless there's been red herrings about the other EPS spots - does Peterson deserve his spot? Or all of the 3 backs apparently on EPS contracts (Lucas, Horwitz, Alofa)?

What we do know is: (a) Cheika's a Randwick man through and through, so that would give Lam and Horwitz (and maybe Hoiles, if you accept the RugbyHeaven puff piece) a chance on a line-ball call; (b) there are only 2 genuine locks in the main squad; and (c) the chances of both TPN and Latu both going uninjured for the entire season is slim.

Falefa might make a novelty 6th prop in a 40-man squad, a luxury we don't have. That leaves the only real choice of 5th prop as Sam Talakai, and though we have plenty of coverage from Dennis, Chapman, Potgeiter and Holloway at lock if required - Peterson despite not seeming to have Cheika's favour in 2013 May be a necessity for an EPS spot.

I'd give Lam the last full contract - I've seen him a few times at Coogee giving 100% while others around him have given up, and give Talakai, Kaveinga, Lucas, Horwitz and Alofa the EPS spots. I really don't see the use in pursuing Hoiles - great club player, busy though replaceable Super player, and average Wallaby (sounds a lot like Fava, and we've already got McCutcheon). So I'd risk the extra lock and give Kaveinga a go - likely to give more value than Peterson.

 

[refugee]

Hoiles could teach a thing or two as he is a smart footballer.

 

[Pete King]

I'd be backing Talakai as the 5th prop, and Lam as the 3rd hooker. Roach is young, and doesn't play regularly as hooker (nor does Lam for that matter) so might be a work in progress - and I'd give big Johnson a wide berth (so to speak).

I not sure how they can fit Kaveinga or Hoiles in the squad, unless there's been red herrings about the other EPS spots - does Peterson deserve his spot? Or all of the 3 backs apparently on EPS contracts (Lucas, Horwitz, Alofa)?

What we do know is: (a) Cheika's a Randwick man through and through, so that would give Lam and Horwitz (and maybe Hoiles, if you accept the RugbyHeaven puff piece) a chance on a line-ball call; (b) there are only 2 genuine locks in the main squad; and (c) the chances of both TPN and Latu both going uninjured for the entire season is slim.

Falefa might make a novelty 6th prop in a 40-man squad, a luxury we don't have. That leaves the only real choice of 5th prop as Sam Talakai, and though we have plenty of coverage from Dennis, Chapman, Potgeiter and Holloway at lock if required - Peterson despite not seeming to have Cheika's favour in 2013 May be a necessity for an EPS spot.

I'd give Lam the last full contract - I've seen him a few times at Coogee giving 100% while others around him have given up, and give Talakai, Kaveinga, Lucas, Horwitz and Alofa the EPS spots. I really don't see the use in pursuing Hoiles - great club player, busy though replaceable Super player, and average Wallaby (sounds a lot like Fava, and we've already got McCutcheon). So I'd risk the extra lock and give Kaveinga a go - likely to give more value than Peterson.

Pretty generous in your appraisal of Lam. He had a good year for Randwick in 2011 but has been injured and unfit ever since. He played well out at Foreshore in a losing side but otherwise his fitness has really cost him. I think without playing any hooker as yet he would be an ideal EPS but not full time

 

[Absent Friend]

For my "two bobs worth", Johnson has previously tweeted an image of his Tahs playing agreement, and has continued to tweet pictures of himself training in NZ waiting for his "passport issues" to be sorted out, so I am guessing he is the 30th player in the squad. For mine its a wasted spot with Metcher and Talaki more than capable of filling that spot, and both being hard working members of the squad since October. Metcher accounted for himself very well in the 2013 season with Souths and against the Lions for Country and for the Force (albeit only a few minutes, but two scrums). Talaki did have some technical issues in Argentina, but he also has the right stuff.
For mine, the full contract roster is therefore full, just not announced.
In relation to hooker, I disagree with the premise that Roach hasnt played enough hooker given he was in the Australian U20 team for two consecutive years at hooker, played a full season for Vikings in the premiership winning team in 2011 and played half of the 2013 season there for Eastwood. He will have no trouble and has been "training the house down" as they say, with the squad since invited to join in October. I do agree that whoever is the third hooker will be very likely to be called upon during the year and as good a prospect as Lam might be as a footy player, putting a bloke there who has never packed a scrum in anger in the front row, or thrown to a lineout under pressure is a step too far for mine. So my prediction: final EPS spot will go to a hooker, either Roach or from left field, an older/experienced campaigner ( Aus, Kiwi or Saffer) arriving from either Japan or NH at completion of those committments. At least a couple have gone away from Aus in the last few years and could be ready to return. Edmonds, Heggarty etc.
In relation to Hoiles, I think it is a smart move to have him in the WTG as Cliffy must be long odds to complete a full season.
The remainder of the Tahs WTG will likely be made up of those players already working within the squad including the likes of Cummins, Talaki, Metcher, Kaveinga, Hoiles

 

[Lee Grant]

For mine, the full contract roster is therefore full, just not announced.

This would almost always be the case at this time of the year.

Wow - I'm surprised that Falefa has been chosen, if that is correct. I would have picked Talakai ahead of him. I thought JF struggled to get around the field when he was training; so he'd have to have a problem with the pace of Super Rugby.

I thought they might even go for a LHP like Metcher, though Tilse and Kepu "can" play on both sides, and Kepu considers himself as a THP these day.

Agree that Lam is a left-field candidate for hooker and that Roach should get the third hooker's berth. Roach was helping out Eastwood when he played on the flank for them.

But, as mentioned, there could be somebody playing in Japan coming over late as Chapman did at the same time last year.

With Tala Grey in the side Hoiles is at long odds to play at 8 this season since Dennis goes OK there too (as would Holloway as he did in school rep teams, I reckon) and there's a cadre of players who can take the place of Dennis on the blindside flank.
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[Absent Friend]

This would almost always be the case at this time of the year.

Wow - I'm surprised that Falefa has been chosen, if that is correct. I would have picked Talakai ahead of him. I thought JF struggled to get around the field when he was training; so he'd have to have a problem with the pace of Super Rugby.


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I'm not young enough or tech savvy enough to know if this is reliable or a gee up, make your own mind up!!
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[Lindommer]

It's not the muddy fields of France for Falefa, this bloke's not nearly fit enough for Super Rugby.

 

[terry j]

man, who'd like to take a stab at what english will sound like in a hundred years.

what was he writing, ancient greek?

the dumbing down of society, hooray for social media.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I really don't see the use in pursuing Hoiles - great club player, busy though replaceable Super player, and average Wallaby (sounds a lot like Fava, and we've already got McCutcheon).

That's certainly an interesting view, to say that having McCutcheon makes Hoiles superfluous.

McCutcheon is 26 and has yet to cement a spot in the game day squad for any significant period of time.

Hoiles by 24/25 had represented the Wallabies despite his physical limitations (Size/bulk) which made it difficult for him to compete with the best number 8s in the world.

I'd argue that despite being club captain last year, McCutcheon is really unlikely to crack it as a consistent Super Rugby starter, whilst Hoiles as an ex Super Rugby captain and ex Wallaby could really add some invaluable experience to the squad. Also having the desire to go out on his terms could see him push himself to a whole new level.

I understand that this is a simplification, that Hoiles has had injury issues and McCutcheon is signed, Hoiles isn't. But to just dismiss Hoiles disregards the quality of him as a player.

 

[wamberal]

Surely there is a good young potential 8 around? Neither McCutcheon nor Hoiles is going to win a premiership for the Tahs, they need to look for players who might develop into winners. Yes, Hoiles was a good type of player, he might still be, but he is not a star.

I'd like to see him in the Sevens squad, actually.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Providing he is over his Achilles issues I'd like to think Hoiles could add a lot to a Super Rugby franchise as a utility back rower.

 

[Hawko]

Surely there is a good young potential 8 around? Neither McCutcheon nor Hoiles is going to win a premiership for the Tahs, they need to look for players who might develop into winners. Yes, Hoiles was a good type of player, he might still be, but he is not a star.

I'd like to see him in the Sevens squad, actually.

First time I saw Hoiles was a long time ago. If my memory is not playing tricks it was in the last GF that Randwick won in Shute. He virtually won that game himself and I marked him down then as a real talent. Athletic, great engine with a football brain to match.

Right now the only thing that McCutcheon has over him is incumbency. The type of gameplan the Waratahs are using is much more suited to Hoiles than McCutcheon, who has not kicked on since his glory days for Uni a couple of years ago. Cutch would go better at the Force, Brumbies or Rebels where the coaches like a more Uni-style of gameplan. Hoiles is not going to be the big boppa doing the tight work like Cliffy does, but coming off the bench for the last 20 minutes he has the potential to cut good teams to shreds. Good players are good anywhere, but to get the best out of them they need to be playing the right gameplan. By way of illustration, Cooper would be just good at the Force and not more, because of the way they play. If the Force had Steyne he would look an absolute star.

Your suggestion that he should be in the sevens squad is not without merit. Hoiles is DJ Forbes-like with a better skill level. But I don't think a player of his age can afford to play sevens unless he's got external wealth. There's a reason players in the Australian sevens squad see it as primarily a stepping stone to Super rugby. You don't get even close to well off on a sevens contract.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I similarly have always had a soft spot for Hoiles. A bit like Mowen.
Given what I read about how long his achilles has been troubling him I could see him having more than a bench spot: we haven't seen him at his best for a long time and McCutcheon has hardly set the world on fire.

 

[qwerty51]

Why are McCutcheon and Hoiles getting compared? McCutcheon is the backup 7 to Hooper, he is essential. Hoiles is a #8 or a 6 at a pinch.

 

[Intruder]

This would almost always be the case at this time of the year.

Wow - I'm surprised that Falefa has been chosen, if that is correct. I would have picked Talakai ahead of him. I thought JF struggled to get around the field when he was training; so he'd have to have a problem with the pace of Super Rugby.

I thought they might even go for a LHP like Metcher, though Tilse and Kepu "can" play on both sides, and Kepu considers himself as a THP these day.

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Wow, very surprising if JF is the last prop chosen. In a previous post LG mentioned he is going through some family issues however it's hard to see improvement on his behalf if his missed majority of the pre season and still yet to return. Tough to believe his been contracted since that twitter post (yet to be announced if correct).