Waratahs 2021

[The Nomad]

The challenge with that squad was that it was so top heavy, that meant recruitment was mediocre for the replacements with the cash going to the "1sts" and squaddies just not getting game time

cheika is the king of the short term

It’s an issue with a successful team .

The starting spots are blocked by well and truely locked in talent who demand the bulk of your salary cap . The up and coming talent start to look elsewhere.

Happened to the Reds in the mid to late 90’s , other franchises benefited from Qld’s next in line talent.

It’s a problem not isolated to rugby, look at Australian cricket when a heap of stars all move on at the same time.

It’s not rocket science to recognise what is likely about to happen , but very few seem to manage it well.

You really need to introduce some of the young talent that you have identified earlier when you have the chance to while the experience is still there . Easier said than done in a results driven world .

 

[fatprop]

It’s an issue with a successful team .

The starting spots are blocked by well and truely locked in talent who demand the bulk of your salary cap . The up and coming talent start to look elsewhere.

Happened to the Reds in the mid to late 90’s , other franchises benefited from Qld’s next in line talent.

It’s a problem not isolated to rugby, look at Australian cricket when a heap of stars all move on at the same time.

It’s not rocket science to recognise what is likely about to happen , but very few seem to manage it well.

You really need to introduce some of the young talent that you have identified earlier when you have the chance to while the experience is still there . Easier said than done in a results driven world .

I still remember Wayne Bennett moving on Wally Lewis as an organisation making those hard decisions

 

[The Nomad]

I still remember Wayne Bennett moving on Wally Lewis as an organisation making those hard decisions

Was actually going to mention that in my post , Wayne definitely played the long game then, not so sure now ( sorry Newcastle) .

He also moved on Gene Miles and tapped Alfie on the shoulder.

Wayne thought he was going to be at the Broncos forever and managed the roster that way, always aware that he needed to develop talent.

Guess that’s the difference, he had an interest in the future , not just the here and now.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm sure NSWRU would actually love Shute to be a huge feeder competition that allows the cream to go on to professional contracts. BUT the SRU want to have their cake and eat it, too:

1) Allowing clubs who perennially struggle to keep participating, just because they want to pay lip service to Western Sydney.
2) Using 4 Grades + 3 Colts as a food bill to pay a few players at the top
3) Failing to look at structures that would allow promotion/relegation with ambitious Subbies clubs over the longer term

While SRU remains a closed shop, I think it can be treated as such

Okay. So this is where we divulge a little here. I don't believe it's the role of subbies clubs to look to become HP entities. I see them as vessels for participation and community engagement. Every subbies club should be looking to become what I refer to as complete clubs. Where by boys and girls can start playing the game from U6s all the way to adulthood. I'm actually fine with the Shute clubs being HP structures. But if they truly want to be considered as such then they need to accept that they are not in fact grassroots clubs. And actually structure themselves in such a way that reflect that.

 

[Derpus]

It’s an issue with a successful team .

The starting spots are blocked by well and truely locked in talent who demand the bulk of your salary cap . The up and coming talent start to look elsewhere.

Happened to the Reds in the mid to late 90’s , other franchises benefited from Qld’s next in line talent.

It’s a problem not isolated to rugby, look at Australian cricket when a heap of stars all move on at the same time.

It’s not rocket science to recognise what is likely about to happen , but very few seem to manage it well.

You really need to introduce some of the young talent that you have identified earlier when you have the chance to while the experience is still there . Easier said than done in a results driven world .

Or you can just accept that there will be periods where you suck and will be rebuilding. You know, they clearly knew that they were in a lull and had not effectively rejuvenated talent. They told the coach they had a young team and were building for the future.

nek minnut they sack him. It's just argh. argbalrghp

 

[Pfitzy]

cheika is the king of the short term

*Starts running to fatprop's house*

 

[Pfitzy]

Okay. So this is where we divulge a little here. I don't believe it's the role of subbies clubs to look to become HP entities. I see them as vessels for participation and community engagement. Every subbies club should be looking to become what I refer to as complete clubs. Where by boys and girls can start playing the game from U6s all the way to adulthood. I'm actually fine with the Shute clubs being HP structures. But if they truly want to be considered as such then they need to accept that they are not in fact grassroots clubs. And actually structure themselves in such a way that reflect that.

Agree with all that.

I suppose my point about Subbies was that most of them are better run and backed than clubs currently participating in Shute.

If there was a pathway where e.g. Emus could drop to another Division and find their feet while building out, then it might work. Simply taking their word that they'll step up to Premier is ludicrous in the extreme.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Agree with all that.

I suppose my point about Subbies was that most of them are better run and backed than clubs currently participating in Shute.

If there was a pathway where e.g. Emus could drop to another Division and find their feet while building out, then it might work. Simply taking their word that they'll step up to Premier is ludicrous in the extreme.

I agree on the Emu's. I think they'd be better stepping back while looking to develop the club as a really strong subbies competitor.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Agree with all that.

I suppose my point about Subbies was that most of them are better run and backed than clubs currently participating in Shute.

If there was a pathway where e.g. Emus could drop to another Division and find their feet while building out, then it might work. Simply taking their word that they'll step up to Premier is ludicrous in the extreme.

Yes that way the EMU's could wait for NSWRU's western sydney strategy to be designed and implemented....(cue: immediate eruption of uncontrolled laughter)

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yes that way the EMU's could wait for NSWRU's western sydney strategy to be designed and implemented..(cue: immediate eruption of uncontrolled laughter)

Them getting the crap kicked out of them week in, week out certainly isn't helping. They would be better advised to take the limited resources they are currently wasting and instead look to develop more clubs in the region of the city.

 

[dru]

I still remember Wayne Bennett moving on Wally Lewis as an organisation making those hard decisions

Broncos lost me at that point and I never returned.

 

[fatprop]

Part of the solution

 

[Rob42]

If you've got Stan, there's a really interesting special on the Waratahs there now, an interview with Paul Doorn then comments from Turinui and Cheika. I don't agree with everything he says, but credit to Doorn for facing the questions.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If you've got Stan, there's a really interesting special on the Waratahs there now, an interview with Paul Doorn then comments from Turinui and Cheika. I don't agree with everything he says, but credit to Doorn for facing the questions.

Oh, he mentioned Western Sydney. I'm just giddy with excitement. Then pretty goes back the same old rubbish.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Finished watching it. What concerns me is that throughout the entire process no one addresses any of the core underlying issues within Rugby in Sydney and more broadly the state. There's mentioned of recruitment and retention. Of the pathways bringing young guys through etc. But it's all very narrow in its scope and offers nothing in terms of means to improve the situation. It's all about getting through to the magic bullet of the new stadium. That will make everything better. Which just isn't true. If you want to have consistently strong squads and people actively engaged with the team they need to not only look at the top end of the equation.

As above, mentioning Western Sydney as Doorne did means absolutely shit if nothing changes. They mention having someone from a HP background on the board but nothing on development. It needs both. We need the game to grow throughout the city if the Tahs are to be what they seem to be trying to sell. May be its the years of underperforming and empty platitudes but I'm not confident much of anything is going to change.

 

[Derpus]

It's almost as if those running the game don't want anything to change and they are happy for it to remain a club for 'good boys from good schools and families (TM)'

 

[Quick Hands]

It's almost as if those running the game don't want anything to change and they are happy for it to remain a club for 'good boys from good schools and families (TM)'

The NSWRU is largely an extension of GPS rugby. Which school you went to, which university you went to and where you work are highly valued. Part of the reason for the divide between NSWRU and the clubs.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It's almost as if those running the game don't want anything to change and they are happy for it to remain a club for 'good boys from good schools and families (TM)'

If not consciously then certainly unconsciously for sure. To the point I am beginning to doubt they are actually capable of viewing the game beyond their very rigid terms of reference. Which is as Quick has suggested based solely around a select few institutions.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The NSWRU is largely an extension of GPS rugby. Which school you went to, which university you went to and where you work are highly valued. Part of the reason for the divide between NSWRU and the clubs.

My experience is that there's still a fair bit of the schools mentality in the clubs as well. Not as much but it's still there. To the point where as someone who came through via the club system you had to be so much better than the GPS/CAS schoolboy recruit in order to even compete.

Also. Your 'Where to for Super Rugby' thread is 4 posts short of 1000 pages. Get over there and make sure as the original author you're the one that ticks it over.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm sure NSWRU would actually love Shute to be a huge feeder competition that allows the cream to go on to professional contracts. BUT the SRU want to have their cake and eat it, too:

1) Allowing clubs who perennially struggle to keep participating, just because they want to pay lip service to Western Sydney.
2) Using 4 Grades + 3 Colts as a food bill to pay a few players at the top
3) Failing to look at structures that would allow promotion/relegation with ambitious Subbies clubs over the longer term

While SRU remains a closed shop, I think it can be treated as such

They're both closed shops, which is part of the problem. Some of the demands of some Sydney clubs are outlandish and are easily demolished, while other things are perfectly reasonable and would benefit the clubs and the NSWRU but there's a large degree of mutual distrust and dislike. NSWRU have over the pas 20 years gone out of their way in many cases to antagonise the clubs for no particular reason other than they could.

Struggling clubs should be supported by NSWRU but never have been. Going back years, NSWRU should have made contracted Waratah players who didn't come through a club junior system play for Parramatta or Penrith or Wests. But they allowed or encouraged these players to go to the same two or three strong clubs.

It's a bit much to ask volunteers at other clubs to volunteer extra time to help other clubs when NSWRU won't.

Promotion from Kentwell Cup has occurred over the years, but this has to come from a club which is outside of areas which are well serviced. The last clubs to come up on the basis of winning Kentwell Cup were Norths and Drummoyne. Penrith came up from Subbies on the basis of geography, so it's not strictly correct to say that there isn't a way for ambitious subbies clubs to move up.

If they chose to do so, NSWRU, SRU and the subbies could all work together and they would all benefit. There's definitely better ways to do things, but getting people to agree to them is another matter.