Waratahs 2025

[Homer]

Halangahu has said he wants to stay in NZ. His wife is from Auckland and the kids are at school.

The big problem is Europe and Japan pay more for coaches than the Tahs can afford so we are looking at Tier 2 or 3 coaches.
The big carrot is that there could be a wallaby job around in two years but definitely in four.
Mackellar is the obvious choice but unlikely to leave the Tigers, and all the Australians mentioned have less experience than Coleman and havent been overly successful in any comp.

 

[Rebel man]

Halangahu has said he wants to stay in NZ. His wife is from Auckland and the kids are at school.

The big problem is Europe and Japan pay more for coaches than the Tahs can afford so we are looking at Tier 2 or 3 coaches.
The big carrot is that there could be a wallaby job around in two years but definitely in four.
Mackellar is the obvious choice but unlikely to leave the Tigers, and all the Australians mentioned have less experience than Coleman and havent been overly successful in any comp.

This is probably the biggest area of concern, how many Aussie players flop in Super Rugby go off shore and improve? It’s seems to be a semi regular occurrence. For mine it comes down to the season length overseas, our season is too short but also the level of coaching overseas

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

You're spot on about games but a big part of it is the ability of the players to grow up.

I think it would naturally happen here for many but we expect them to play like 26 year olds when they're 21. Hanigan is a prime example of this, especially being in the forwards. Jack Maddocks is another who I think has just found his feet and confidence has he's go his grown man body.

We ship them off at 22,23 and then wonder what happened.... He's now 27 fully grown and filled out with 5 years of pro S&C behind them and a settled brain. Jed Holloway has spoken about how the penny dropped at a certain point.

 

[Rebel man]

You're spot on about games but a big part of it is the ability of the players to grow up.

I think it would naturally happen here for many but we expect them to play like 26 year olds when they're 21. Hanigan is a prime example of this, especially being in the forwards. Jack Maddocks is another who I think has just found his feet and confidence has he's go his grown man body.

We ship them off at 22,23 and then wonder what happened.... He's now 27 fully grown and filled out with 5 years of pro S&C behind them and a settled brain. Jed Holloway has spoken about how the penny dropped at a certain point.

I agree with you, I think also with 5 teams now possibly 4 it is harder for young lads. With the amount of players needed for 28 pro sides say in France there would be a greater blend between youth and experience.

 

[Tazzmania]

France (2023: 125 K ) has a lot more senior registered rugby players than Australia ( 2023: 40K ), therefore they can field a lot more sides but that does mean its open doors for all foreigners they too need to accomodate their own first.

 

[Highlander35]

Why do I like Wessels more than Foote, Foote has had better results.. Maybe I think Foote had more chances.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I think it's worth questioning that narrative.

I have a lot of empathy for Wessels. I think he's been up front, both to colleagues and the general rugby public that he got a lot wrong, particularly with finding a way to bring the 18 & 19 squads together, and he had challenges in the 2020 Super Season that no Coach is ever likely to face again.

He needed to go after an abysmal 2021 Super Rugby AU, but he's still the Rebel's best performing coach overall, and he had the Rebels finish 2nd in the Aussie conference both '18 & '19 with us well positioned to do so again in '20.

Foote, although holding weaker squads, has by contrast had two rather poor seasons: finishing as the worst Australian team in both 22 & 23, and squeezed into getting a 1 year extension based on a combination of (a) easier and cheaper to extend than go galivanting around to relocate a coach of higher quality and (b) his playstyle and encouragement to build a heavy pasifika culture in the 2023 season being an attractive part of retention and recruitment of players. Love him as a bloke, but I don't know what sort of difference maker he is in the backroom either tactically or motivationally.

Back on topic. If the Tahs can't find an elite option, I think Foote with RA backing would do a better job than just about any "local-ish" option likely to be available.

 

[pnut]

There was a whole heap of chat prior to Darren Coleman’s appointment that the Waratahs coach needed to be someone with intimate knowledge of Shute Shield rugby to truly ’get’ NSW rugby and be successful (probably perpetuated by gronks like yourself).

It was basically thinly veiled xenophobia.

Fair enough
Whatever makes u feel fuzzy at night

 

[pnut]

Like every single one of them that tried to step up to the Waratahs. That rubbish that you were so adamant about at the expense of the young stars of the next generation. Your shute shield players were woeful

Thank god they didn’t go and pick 2nd graders then

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Is Bo Abra still under contract with the Force? He's played every game this year for Hunter and surely he's more ready to go than some of the blokes getting a look in or is he nothing? Coached by DCs brother as well.

 

[stillmissit]

I'm not sure that changes the thinking. A union that is failing sufficiently to lean on being bailed out, looking to where to go, and not apparently being prepared to put in the hard yards. There is a need for an instant fix from a coach who can make everything suddenly successful. (right)

Look I wish all the best, but some attitudes here are strange.

Interesting Dru, I think we ran that experiment in QLD with Thorn and then a good coach has taken the base that Thorn put in place and has made them very competitive.
Qld did a similar thing earlier with Phil Mooney who brought in a whole lot of talented youngsters and got booted, then Link came in and took them to a Super Rugby final or win?

 

[stillmissit]

Is Bo Abra still under contract with the Force? He's played every game this year for Hunter and surely he's more ready to go than some of the blokes getting a look in or is he nothing? Coached by DCs brother as well.

It is not just about pulling people from clubland or anywhere really, it is about recognising talent WITH the big additive of recognising that they could step up. We have had little of that since Bob Dwyer's days.

 

[Braveheart81]

It is not just about pulling people from clubland or anywhere really, it is about recognising talent WITH the big additive of recognising that they could step up. We have had little of that since Bob Dwyer's days.

Let me guess. You're going to use the Phil Kearns example. Someone who was plucked from the obscurity of the NSW Waratahs to play for the Wallabies.

 

[wamberal99]

Let me guess. You're going to use the Phil Kearns example. Someone who was plucked from the obscurity of the NSW Waratahs to play for the Wallabies.

Plucked from Randwick Reserve Grade. Eddie has never gotten over it.

 

[Braveheart81]

My take is that we've probably never been better at identifying talent. It's incredibly rare that someone makes with any talent makes it through to adulthood without playing in various rep teams etc.

As for identifying people that might be able to step up in the future I think that is incredibly difficult to facilitate. We can't provide enough contracts to the best young players now. Trying to contract the best of those is a far more reliable path than offering contracts to substantially inferior players based on gut feeling. Those guys will always have to toil away in club rugby before they reach a level where they're worth a further look as a professional.

 

[Highlander35]

Plucked from Randwick Reserve Grade. Eddie has never gotten over it.

It's shocking how people latch onto narratives.

The Tahs themselves have Kearns making a Provincial debut in '88: the season before his test debut.

Please learn some critical thinking skills.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm not sure if a run in NSW B counts as a Tah's debut. However, he was definitely on the radar, more radars than Eddie in any case. I think from what I read somewhere he had played in Randwick reserve grade immediately prior to being selected in his first Wallabies squad but was returning from injury? Anyway, it's a bit of a digression from Waratahs 2025, but the talent IDing at Newington needed to be questioned back then as both he and NFJ were only in the 2nds there.

 

[dru]

Interesting Dru, I think we ran that experiment in QLD with Thorn and then a good coach has taken the base that Thorn put in place and has made them very competitive.
Qld did a similar thing earlier with Phil Mooney who brought in a whole lot of talented youngsters and got booted, then Link came in and took them to a Super Rugby final or win?

For me, a star head coach isn't necessarily flipping the switch to competitiveness. Can be but it's a big ask. I'd also agree with suggestions that pulling SRU closer into Waratahs Ltd would be a positive step.

Still Cheika might be the bloke. If RA is willing to splash the cash. Wish the Tahs all the best here.

 

[stillmissit]

My take is that we've probably never been better at identifying talent. It's incredibly rare that someone makes with any talent makes it through to adulthood without playing in various rep teams etc.

As for identifying people that might be able to step up in the future I think that is incredibly difficult to facilitate. We can't provide enough contracts to the best young players now. Trying to contract the best of those is a far more reliable path than offering contracts to substantially inferior players based on gut feeling. Those guys will always have to toil away in club rugby before they reach a level where they're worth a further look as a professional.

BH, If I understand you correctly the message you are conveying is that our talent is dross and we deserve to be 10th in the world because, we are already ID'ing all the best talent and there is almost none who could step up.
I think you are ignoring players who do not show outstanding talent before being 21. Then the other side of the coin is talented youngsters don't always make International level players. As an example, the club I played for had 2 or 3 U20's players who only played 2nd or 3rd grade.
Guys like Gamble are obvious and need no special ability to ID them but I contend that many senior club players are unrecognised.

 

[stillmissit]

For me, a star head coach isn't necessarily flipping the switch to competitiveness. Can be but it's a big ask. I'd also agree with suggestions that pulling SRU closer into Waratahs Ltd would be a positive step.

Still Cheika might be the bloke. If RA is willing to splash the cash. Wish the Tahs all the best here.

Not for me thanks Dru but I accept your thinking.

 

[pnut]

My take is that we've probably never been better at identifying talent. It's incredibly rare that someone makes with any talent makes it through to adulthood without playing in various rep teams etc.

As for identifying people that might be able to step up in the future I think that is incredibly difficult to facilitate. We can't provide enough contracts to the best young players now. Trying to contract the best of those is a far more reliable path than offering contracts to substantially inferior players based on gut feeling. Those guys will always have to toil away in club rugby before they reach a level where they're worth a further look as a professional.

Yep talent ID at 16 18 were they play 5 games in a season. Stick with them. Makes sense can’t believe tahs aren’t super champs with that logic