Waratahs vs Sharks. Sydney.
- Thread starter Blue
- Start date
- Status
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
just home from the game. Compared to the dross of last year, this was a reasaonable game. Beggars can't be choosers when you are a tahs fans. I thought the tahs pack were good, TPN great. Both teams duffed opportunities but the defence was solid on both sides too.
This is the sort of game where we need to get a bonus point if we want to make the finals.
IT was bloody hot at the stadium and I thought some of the scrappy play may have been due to that.
This is the sort of game where we need to get a bonus point if we want to make the finals.
IT was bloody hot at the stadium and I thought some of the scrappy play may have been due to that.
louie
Desmond Connor (43)
That should have been a pen try. If it's a yellow then it's a pen try. and it was.
The 2nd yellow was a joke anfd the first should have been red. That ref has no right being in the super 14.
what a joke of a game.
Tahs won't do anything this year.
Marto was the only thing that made that enjoyable
The 2nd yellow was a joke anfd the first should have been red. That ref has no right being in the super 14.
what a joke of a game.
Tahs won't do anything this year.
Marto was the only thing that made that enjoyable
G
GC
Guest
Just watched the game. Awful. Should have been a Sharks victory with a penalty try under the posts due to Beale's deliberate knock-down.
Tahs coaching is terrible. Aimless running and kicking and no attempt to go for the bonus point try.
For the sake of Australian rugby, Hickey has to go. Ruining too many Wallabies.
Tahs coaching is terrible. Aimless running and kicking and no attempt to go for the bonus point try.
For the sake of Australian rugby, Hickey has to go. Ruining too many Wallabies.
The Chosen
Fred Wood (13)
GC said:
I think you've already been outvoted there- replay showed it was not a knockdown- it was attempt at intercept and accordingly penalty/yellow-card was incorrect.
What on earth are we paying Barnes for- he did nothing and was deservedly replaced rather than the maligned Carter who I consider had a fairly solid game. The previously suggested Carter/Horne centre combination would be a reprise of what we had several times 2 seasons ago.
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
fatprop said:
Very well said sir - it also stank
Scotty said:
I was thinking the same thing, but Carter will need to hit the line with pace and aggression.
There were times during that match where there seemed to be a complete lack of vigour and, dare I say it, passion in the Tahs' play.
I'll get the ball rolling on the "what was utterly crap" and "what needs to be done better next week (again)":
Selection:
-Dave Dennis is not Ben Mowen's toenail. Mowen to start.
-10/12 is not going very well. Maybe the Carter/Horne centre combination is worth trying, or maybe Beale/Horne
-Anesi. No. Pedestrian. Never ever a genuine threat. If Beale isn't the answer at 15 (I think he could be, plus he'll add a bit of spark to the backline), surely there is someone else - maybe Mitchell at 15 (even though he is a bit weak in contact) and Nadolo on the wing.
-what to do with Barnes? The bench? No 10? I think he is a great talent, but it just isn't really clicking yet
Tactics:
-the wrong approach is making good players look bad
-stop kicking away possession (it is one thing to make a relieving kick, or to play for field position, but most of the time it was just pointless 'last season style' kicking). Really, just stop.
-contest defensive line outs
-the occasional penetrative run from the backs would be welcome
-the wingers need to be brought into the game
-maul, pick-and-drive, 'pop balls' - all fast
Attitude:
-4 try bonus points are important
-no opponent should be underestimated
-yes, it is your responsibility
-there were too many situations where there was nobody putting their hand up to run the ball (ie actually running hard in the direction of the gain line, and beyond)
PRACTICE RESTARTS ALL WEEK - IT IS AN EMBARRASSMENT!!!!!!!!!!
A win is a win, but we all know it was pretty lucky, and it will be no consolation when they end up in 5th (optimism is creeping back in) position on the ladder because of a lack of bonus points.
Are we witnessing Hickey's game plan in action? or is everyone ignoring his instructions?
Beale should not have been given a yellow card - knock on. He did exactly the right thing in that situation (except it would have been nice if he got more height on the ball and was able to catch it for a run to the line). Treblanche had a good game, but failed to notice the last defender was not lined up (he could have thrown the dummy or delayed the pass)- bad luck mate
C
chief
Guest
I thought it was one of the most toughest decisions a referee can ever make. If a referee had refereed that play on the actual incident, I doubt a PT would have been a option yet alone a sin bin. Had they reflected on the circumstances of the play eg; the fact that it was 2 minutes to go, then it might have resulted in a higher sanction. Credit to Paul Marks must go here, he serviced this particular incident well.
In fact I may have had this exact conversation with waratahjesus after the game at the pub - TC tries to play just like Nathan Grey, just less good at it. I watched the 2001 Bledisloe at Homebush on Fox the other night - God what I would give for Grey to run straight and hard, tackle like a fiend and give the oppo a gobful after a big hit. Simple but bloody effective.Blue said:
From being there, the Tahs were truly awful. Barnes can fark off back to Qld, he's useless. Dennis is useless. Waugh keeps it all too close to the ruck and nobody has any confidence to play wide of the breakdown - they just kick like Pavlov's lobotomised dogs. Mowen should start. Anesi is treating our oxygen like the dole - back to NZ for him, offers nothing.
Mitchell can go back to the Force - I will pay his airfare personally (only 10 kg carry-on hair product, though).
Hickey has the dream bench, but uses it poorly. Burgess is doing OK, so the first sub is obviously to put Holmes on. TPN has crocked his leg, but keep him on for 15 mins anyway instead of Fitzy. 12-13 look catatonic all night, so keep Horne back till way late. Anesi? See above.
In fact, if it was a crap-off between the Tahs and Ponies, I declare a dead (and I mean 6 feet under dead) heat for crapulence, and I don't care if that isn't a word, Biffo.
Carn the Reds!!
Well, Beale at least went with 2 hands at it - earlier a Sharks player batted the ball down like a volleyball spike with no sanction. In this match, either both or neither deserved a card on that basis.
Personally I think both were cynical, but the calls for a penalty try are far-fetched - they were the best part of 40 m from the line. Who's gonna give that under the sticks? Seriously.
The biggest crime was against rugby in general...both sides guilty.
Personally I think both were cynical, but the calls for a penalty try are far-fetched - they were the best part of 40 m from the line. Who's gonna give that under the sticks? Seriously.
The biggest crime was against rugby in general...both sides guilty.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Guinness in my book. There is no way he was going for a real intercept - the replay showed him sticking out his left arm and lungng forward to stop the pass. An attempted intercept you have to try to catch the ball and Beale did not.
In fact those with keen memories will recall the Reds winger getting yellow carded for an almost identical thing vs the Force. The only reason I can think of why it was not a penalty try is because it was 30m out from the line.
Sharks fans will no doubt be pissed off with the ref. He missed or ignored so many knock ons and forward passes that affected the game (from both sides but Baxter's right before Carter's try is the most memorable) then he calls what looked like a flat ball from Goode up to deny the Sharks a try.
All I have to say is I told you so about Anesi. I was the one person here criticising his signing based on the fact that he has showed nothing since his tragic injury. Anesi was struggling to even make the bench before moving to the Tahs.
I admire the Tahs coaching staff for the ability to coach running out of a side. No even Mitchell backs himself anymore and it's a real tragedy. I am also wondering if the Tahs play to a game plan like Italian soccer players - once they are ahead play the most boring negative game possible.
At least some of the Tahs players like TPN are still making a real go of it and shoeing some heart. It's a real tragedy when they have in form players and don't use them. Like Turner on the wing and Mowen on the bench.
Hangers has caught the Barnes disease and stood way too deep at first receiver most of the time.
I think Waugh's ref management has really turned sour this year as well. He seems to give the ref a spray too often when the Tahs give away silly penalties.
Good to see Burgess finding some better form. Passing is still wayward - I doubt that will change soon but he's getting that ball out quicker and finding some runners as well as really finding his running v
game.
And we should all forget the period of time when the Sharks had two in the bin. The Tahs showed exactly what not to do. Starting with taking time sapping scrum after scrum to taking their foot off the gas and just expecting to magically score points. They should've been working doubly hard to press home heir advantage.
In fact those with keen memories will recall the Reds winger getting yellow carded for an almost identical thing vs the Force. The only reason I can think of why it was not a penalty try is because it was 30m out from the line.
Sharks fans will no doubt be pissed off with the ref. He missed or ignored so many knock ons and forward passes that affected the game (from both sides but Baxter's right before Carter's try is the most memorable) then he calls what looked like a flat ball from Goode up to deny the Sharks a try.
All I have to say is I told you so about Anesi. I was the one person here criticising his signing based on the fact that he has showed nothing since his tragic injury. Anesi was struggling to even make the bench before moving to the Tahs.
I admire the Tahs coaching staff for the ability to coach running out of a side. No even Mitchell backs himself anymore and it's a real tragedy. I am also wondering if the Tahs play to a game plan like Italian soccer players - once they are ahead play the most boring negative game possible.
At least some of the Tahs players like TPN are still making a real go of it and shoeing some heart. It's a real tragedy when they have in form players and don't use them. Like Turner on the wing and Mowen on the bench.
Hangers has caught the Barnes disease and stood way too deep at first receiver most of the time.
I think Waugh's ref management has really turned sour this year as well. He seems to give the ref a spray too often when the Tahs give away silly penalties.
Good to see Burgess finding some better form. Passing is still wayward - I doubt that will change soon but he's getting that ball out quicker and finding some runners as well as really finding his running v
game.
And we should all forget the period of time when the Sharks had two in the bin. The Tahs showed exactly what not to do. Starting with taking time sapping scrum after scrum to taking their foot off the gas and just expecting to magically score points. They should've been working doubly hard to press home heir advantage.
P
PhucNgo
Guest
Can somebody please change the name of this thread to the Dance of the Desparados. What a train wreck, I reckon the guy trying to sell the Tah's jersey earlier in the week was on the right track, it'll be near impossible to sell one next week. I walked at about the 76 min mark. I could take no more.
Tahs did everything they could to keep the Sharks in the game. Maintained absolutely zero pressure in attack and ran their forwards out of gas trying to keep the Sharks out. Hickey should have made changes at about the 50 mark as they were visibly knackered. To their credit Tah's forwards kept on coming, but the Sharks were mashing them.
I pretty sure after week 2 that the Tahs don't have the cattle to make an impression in this competition, or if they do, they're certainly hiding it well. For starters, I'll continue my call that Waugh must go, hang on, I've been saying this for two years. He's becoming more like the knight from Monty Python with every passing game. Proved again tonight that he has the passing skills of an U8, what a shocker. Mumm for captain please. Wouldn't mind seeing Dennis have a crack at 7. Tackles like a demon and is more than mobile enough.
Hangers had a pretty good game but obviously under orders to kick the skin off the thing. The real problem with him I realised tonight is his passing is crap. His long balls travel about 6 metres and look like they're in a tumble dryer. But we are where we are. I'm thinking that if he stays at 10 then the Portley Beagle should be moved back to 12. Seems to me he's the only inside back with the pace to get in behind the defence and runs well onto Hangers hort grubbers. Like Hangers, he doesn't have a terrific long ball, but out wider should be able to find holes to put Horne thru.
I'd also like to get a look at the new #3 half back. Burgess and Holmes are just so alike (and so equally useless). One of them should go from the 22. As we saw in the Reds game, you need someone with genuine accelaration at 9 to get in behind the opposing forwards, who are all sucking in big ones under the NRI.
Tahs will struggle again next week to get over the Lions. They were clobbered tonight by the Sharks and don't have a great deal of time to recover. But besides, I don't mind so much; bit of a closet Lions fan. Been impressed with them over the past few weeks. Not afraid to give the ball some air and always give 110%. Particularly impressed by Coertse (?), the reserve 9. Good game against the Hurricanes last week and again against the Brumbies. Quick around the rucks and great pass from the ground. And for those who think a wins a win, well, I'd rather support a team like the Lions and lose but go home satisfied. (Still trying to get the bad taste from tonight's game out of my mouth.)
Oh yeah, and the Beagle's smack down. Get real, it was clearly an intercept attempt.
Tahs did everything they could to keep the Sharks in the game. Maintained absolutely zero pressure in attack and ran their forwards out of gas trying to keep the Sharks out. Hickey should have made changes at about the 50 mark as they were visibly knackered. To their credit Tah's forwards kept on coming, but the Sharks were mashing them.
I pretty sure after week 2 that the Tahs don't have the cattle to make an impression in this competition, or if they do, they're certainly hiding it well. For starters, I'll continue my call that Waugh must go, hang on, I've been saying this for two years. He's becoming more like the knight from Monty Python with every passing game. Proved again tonight that he has the passing skills of an U8, what a shocker. Mumm for captain please. Wouldn't mind seeing Dennis have a crack at 7. Tackles like a demon and is more than mobile enough.
Hangers had a pretty good game but obviously under orders to kick the skin off the thing. The real problem with him I realised tonight is his passing is crap. His long balls travel about 6 metres and look like they're in a tumble dryer. But we are where we are. I'm thinking that if he stays at 10 then the Portley Beagle should be moved back to 12. Seems to me he's the only inside back with the pace to get in behind the defence and runs well onto Hangers hort grubbers. Like Hangers, he doesn't have a terrific long ball, but out wider should be able to find holes to put Horne thru.
I'd also like to get a look at the new #3 half back. Burgess and Holmes are just so alike (and so equally useless). One of them should go from the 22. As we saw in the Reds game, you need someone with genuine accelaration at 9 to get in behind the opposing forwards, who are all sucking in big ones under the NRI.
Tahs will struggle again next week to get over the Lions. They were clobbered tonight by the Sharks and don't have a great deal of time to recover. But besides, I don't mind so much; bit of a closet Lions fan. Been impressed with them over the past few weeks. Not afraid to give the ball some air and always give 110%. Particularly impressed by Coertse (?), the reserve 9. Good game against the Hurricanes last week and again against the Brumbies. Quick around the rucks and great pass from the ground. And for those who think a wins a win, well, I'd rather support a team like the Lions and lose but go home satisfied. (Still trying to get the bad taste from tonight's game out of my mouth.)
Oh yeah, and the Beagle's smack down. Get real, it was clearly an intercept attempt.
I've held off Carter because he can play a role in the right set up, but this isn't it. At present he is a try-butchering clueless attack handbrake on the whole team. Tonight he took it to comical proportions with the inability to run off Barnes or draw and pass. Between him and Anesi, Shmoo must be wondering if he was responsible for a genocide in a previous life.
Whether it's Waugh, Hickey, or both of them, the tactical decision making is ludicrous. How do you go backwards on the scoreboard against 13 men? I'll tell you how, you spend half the time re-setting scrums on your own fucking ball, and fuck up the rest.
You missed last year's semis by a bonus point and have 3 tries in 40 minutes in this game, so you kick away all possession for the remainder.
Having said all that, the phase play structures - around the pack - are still solid.
And if that was a knock-down by Beale, he did a shithouse job as the ball went 3 feet up into the air.
Whether it's Waugh, Hickey, or both of them, the tactical decision making is ludicrous. How do you go backwards on the scoreboard against 13 men? I'll tell you how, you spend half the time re-setting scrums on your own fucking ball, and fuck up the rest.
You missed last year's semis by a bonus point and have 3 tries in 40 minutes in this game, so you kick away all possession for the remainder.
Having said all that, the phase play structures - around the pack - are still solid.
And if that was a knock-down by Beale, he did a shithouse job as the ball went 3 feet up into the air.
TheRiddler
Dave Cowper (27)
Another year, Another wasted membership (but the membership to the FHC is building!!)
OK, mea cupla. I predicted 20,000 and there were actually 20,651. I agree with Cyclopath, will struggle to get 15,00 next Friday.
As Lee recounted on his Blog post, the members in my area were also apoplectic with indignation and disbelief. Not only was the game plan (and execution) terrible but the game management was even worse. When I saw the bench get up and go for a warm-up stretch I was hopeful that at long last some new ideas and energy could be injected. But no, of course not, this is Hickey's Tahs. Lets wait until we have wrung every last ounce of energy from players before they are pulled with 9 mins to go. Lets wait until the game has nothing left to offer until we bring on the Tahs man-of-the-match for the past couple of weeks. Lets wait until he practically has to crawl off the pitch to replace TPN.
Anesi really is shite. Offers absolutely nothing. Cant step a forward, cant run into a gap, cant kick, cant tackle and has no vision. With those credentials, quite easy to see why Hickey signed him.
Those continuing to praise Burgess should have another look at the tape. His passing, whilst generally quicker, is still off target and the receiver generally has to reach up or stoop down to collect the pass. Sure a prime requirement for a half-back is to consistently hit the breadbasket? And there were also numerous times when Burgess didnt deliver quick ball and allowed the defence to get itself well and truly set.
OK, mea cupla. I predicted 20,000 and there were actually 20,651. I agree with Cyclopath, will struggle to get 15,00 next Friday.
As Lee recounted on his Blog post, the members in my area were also apoplectic with indignation and disbelief. Not only was the game plan (and execution) terrible but the game management was even worse. When I saw the bench get up and go for a warm-up stretch I was hopeful that at long last some new ideas and energy could be injected. But no, of course not, this is Hickey's Tahs. Lets wait until we have wrung every last ounce of energy from players before they are pulled with 9 mins to go. Lets wait until the game has nothing left to offer until we bring on the Tahs man-of-the-match for the past couple of weeks. Lets wait until he practically has to crawl off the pitch to replace TPN.
Anesi really is shite. Offers absolutely nothing. Cant step a forward, cant run into a gap, cant kick, cant tackle and has no vision. With those credentials, quite easy to see why Hickey signed him.
Those continuing to praise Burgess should have another look at the tape. His passing, whilst generally quicker, is still off target and the receiver generally has to reach up or stoop down to collect the pass. Sure a prime requirement for a half-back is to consistently hit the breadbasket? And there were also numerous times when Burgess didnt deliver quick ball and allowed the defence to get itself well and truly set.
R
rugbywhisperer
Guest
OK - for all those who have not attended senior referee workshops;
1: The trip = deliberate foul play as he continued a line that brought him into contact with and impeded Hangers - a trip is one of the most gutless acts you can do on a rugby field and had it occured at anything but international level - according to the 'crimes act' (referee jargon for sanctions on specific events) it would/should have been a red card. International refereeing is somewhat different and the yellow was the correct option.
2: Beale had his palm facing up - therefore according to all the interpretation notices around we would be deemed to be legimately attempting an intercept. Palm down on the otherhand is foul play but his palm was up - no sanction other than scrum for knock on.
1: The trip = deliberate foul play as he continued a line that brought him into contact with and impeded Hangers - a trip is one of the most gutless acts you can do on a rugby field and had it occured at anything but international level - according to the 'crimes act' (referee jargon for sanctions on specific events) it would/should have been a red card. International refereeing is somewhat different and the yellow was the correct option.
2: Beale had his palm facing up - therefore according to all the interpretation notices around we would be deemed to be legimately attempting an intercept. Palm down on the otherhand is foul play but his palm was up - no sanction other than scrum for knock on.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
We disagree over the red card rw but I see your point. It shows that international rugby has no balls unfortunately, and why the sanctioned cheating and foul play will continue.
And anyone calling for a penalty try based on the argument that a yellow card was awarded: give yourselves an uppercut. Follow it with another. It was a gutless joke of a decision by Marks to award the card in the first place and therefore no chance of a penalty try.
I agree with you in principle Mr Chairman, but when you've got your playmakers being either the solid club man attacking the line or the import who stands 10m behind it, I reckon its a difficult job
And anyone calling for a penalty try based on the argument that a yellow card was awarded: give yourselves an uppercut. Follow it with another. It was a gutless joke of a decision by Marks to award the card in the first place and therefore no chance of a penalty try.
TheRiddler said:
I agree with you in principle Mr Chairman, but when you've got your playmakers being either the solid club man attacking the line or the import who stands 10m behind it, I reckon its a difficult job
S
Spook
Guest
Sharks were the better side and should have won. I think they got robbed of two tries but ah well. 
Burgess was utterly terrible. A cross field running scrum half who can't kick or pass. He had a good runing game last week but reverted to type again.
Burgess was utterly terrible. A cross field running scrum half who can't kick or pass. He had a good runing game last week but reverted to type again.
- Status