Where did we go wrong? Wallaby Recovery thread.

[Pfitzy]

I agree with much of this.

I find Scott Allen's analysis a bit strange as his arguments and evidence doesn't really match his conclusion.

If you want to stop mincing words, it looked like a con job to promote QLD second rowers ahead of everyone else, and lump Hooper into the same pile as McMeniman and Mowen, THEN spit on him further. Here's the definition of involvements:

"Involvements - carries, tackles attempted and first into attacking rucks"

Pretty narrow focus, given Hooper's primary role was not carrying the ball, nor does it count the first into defensive rucks. And as a fetcher, being the tackler doesn't necessarily put him into the best position to steal the ball. McCaw's comparison is irrelevant as he didn't have to play alongside Who? McMeniman.

 

[tekay]

Do you mean Read?

How about comparing Simmons with Whitelock, comparing a 4 & 8 is ridiculous.

My point is that regardless of position, balls skills and awareness have to be the utmost importance at Test level. I reckon we're suffering at this a bit presently.

If backs are expected to act like forwards at the breakdown (in lieu of forwards not being present), then likewise when forwards are in the loose they need to have hands like backs. It's basic stuff - but it makes changing up attack and different directional play through snappy, accurate passing more automatic and seamless.

I don't think we're far off but as a Coach at any level I'd never under estimate the importance of continuous and serious basic and advanced ball skill drills at training - so that under pressure passing accuracy becomes more innate.

Why not have a second rower who can bomb the wingers chest from 20m way? The speed and looseness of the modern game is beginning to demand it.

The are moments where the Wallabies passing and interplay looks as crisp and sharp as the AB's - but too often when the traffic gets heavy, we end up forcing passes or they simply go astray through bad execution and positional awareness.

 

[No4918]

So why not direct this to someone like MMM or Mowen? MMM in particular should be one of the first to the ruck from scrums and set piece but did not show up. When he did he was completely ineffective at moving people.

That is one of the reasons I would like to see Gill and Hooper. If the plan is go wide again they are the two people I would back at a ruck to be a pest and secure ball, and get there quickly. If they want to keep it tighter this week then Fardy may be a better selection.

 

[glenn byrne]

Most of the GAgr reports (after reflection are right)

1) Simmons had a good game- he has been shite for a while and because hes an invisble forward hes been overlooked by people who dont watch closely enough and are bedazzled by flair players or plays. Ive been a critic of his for ages. He had a good game to even v good game.
2) Hooper- fantastic- you can see the passion and any mistakes or errors ill take any day.
3) Genia was OK- he only seemed poor to a few because his normal game is exceptional. a victim of his own skill and passion and i dont think he played with great passion.
4) To'omua was Average- He didnt do anything and as one poster said accurately- all he was thinking to himself was "dont fck up, dont fck up" over and over again to himself. Cooper was far superior when he came on.- solution - put Cooper back on but he will always know To'omua is waiting on the wings for a bad or ill thought out game. Hopefully this will be good to keep Cooper going overboard as much as To'omua going 'underboard'. I expect more from a number 10 than just not to make mistakes and shovel. All the time.
5) Get rid of Mogg. Sorry- come back next year and beef up a bit while youre at it. He wont improve this year. Love to see him again tho.
6) Everyone say Folua was 'nowhere' or 'inject him in' yada yada. he was a bit lazy but if you want to inject him into the game put him where he'll get more ball. he doesnt know how to chase it yet like Beiber so give him some slack until he learns- till then put him where he HAS to get it. (FB?)
7) Horwill was pretty average- he missed the tackle that Mogg also missed remember that ended up a try to the AB's- a Captain need to be better than that.
8) Beiber was good. he made one mistake that could have come off. Hes a twat but he had a good game. leave it at that.
9) MMM drop to the bench
10) LLfano- was good
11) Mowen- Meh but leave him there with a kick up the arse
12) Moore very good- it was Moggs shite pass that led to that first try and prob made a few people think moore had a bad game.
13) AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) always good. Ive no idea why some posters run him down. most consistent and valuable player.

#I know bringing luck and poor decisions into it but we never capitalized on bad ref calls that went our way---altho there wasnt many! ABs- ALWAYS caplitalize on luck- and they had plenty of it- but they did something about it.
#pls tell me how we can get called up for a poor scrum feed when the very next one for the ABS is the same but given OK. Pls explain that to me.
#Pls explain how a scrum feed can go right thru a scrum and not be called back (its in the rules)

Joubert is an awful ref- mostly because of his inconsistency. i don't believe he had a good game at all.

I dont think the Abs played well in attacking play or flair or anything. they do still play far more quicker, mechanical and faultless in back line play- the Wobblies always look like they're going to drop the ball. Or is it just me?....

 

[Ash]

If you want to stop mincing words, it looked like a con job to promote QLD second rowers ahead of everyone else, and lump Hooper into the same pile as McMeniman and Mowen, THEN spit on him further. Here's the definition of involvements:

"Involvements - carries, tackles attempted and first into attacking rucks"

Pretty narrow focus, given Hooper's primary role was not carrying the ball, nor does it count the first into defensive rucks. And as a fetcher, being the tackler doesn't necessarily put him into the best position to steal the ball. McCaw's comparison is irrelevant as he didn't have to play alongside Who? McMeniman.

14% ruck involvement from a professoinal openside. You think that is acceptable? He did count first into defensive rucks with that %, but he didn't count it when comparing against McCaw only (I guess because they weren't too different).

He highlighted Hooper because of the perception of his game. He praised Hooper for his effectiveness, but just highlighted the problem with our backrow by using our best performing backrower as an example. edit: And note that Scott did praise Hooper and claim he should still be selected.

BTW, I still think Hooper was our best forward, but he needs to hit more rucks. edit: And I am glad that Scott highlighted one example - at one stage where McCaw got a turnover, I thought, where was Mowen, MMM and Hooper? McCaw isn't faster than Mowen and Hooper at least, and neither of them were involved in the previous ruck, so how McCaw beat them across the park is poor.

He highlighted the locks, because they were the ones who picked up the slack.

But I shouldn't be surprised that it's you bring it back to some petty provincialism, because for some reason you can't grow and move beyond it. You're obsessed with it, that's why you see it everywhere. If you stop looking for a secret Queensland (or non-NSW) conspiracy around every corner, then you might get a shock: you won't find one, because, shock horror, their isn't one.

It's petty.

 

[I like to watch]

Everyone say Folua was 'nowhere' or 'inject him in' yada yada. he was a bit lazy but if you want to inject him into the game put him where he'll get more ball. he doesnt know how to chase it yet like Beiber so give him some slack until he learns- till then put him where he HAS to get it. (FB?)

I thought Bieber was anonamous until late in the game,when the AB's defensive line was slowing down,and the Wobs reshuffled the back line.
I thought no one played well when positioned on the wing.
But maybe I'm being too harsh.

 

[glenn byrne]

Dont think he was that invisible (he had a point to prove) but youre right about the wings.

put AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) there?

 

[fatprop]

Yeah, Folau did a lot of cleanouts on Saturday while locks and frontrowers did the ball running inside him

 

[Pfitzy]

What's the point of involving yourself in any ruck if you aren't going to make a difference, or at least can make a larger difference elsewhere?

How much ball did we steal after ruck had formed?

How much ball did we steal before the ruck formed?

How many tries resulted for our poor ruck technique?

How many carries were effective i.e. across the gain line?

Just picking out three stats and making a chart doesn't make it correct.

When Scott is talking "involvements" he might as well be saying "imaginary unicorns tamed" because pure numbers don't have effects on the game. His chart is smoking MMM so hard its a wonder the bloke's head doesn't cave in, but you won't find many people wanting him at 6 next week.

The stat that matters is: 4 turnovers. If my openside is doing that, and is notably the best forward out on the park otherwise, then the fact he had a try assist and went off bleeding says it all to me.

 

[liquor box]

McCaw isn't faster than Mowen and Hooper at least, and neither of them were involved in the previous ruck, so how McCaw beat them across the park is poor.

Maybe McCaw wants to get there first, the Wallabies just want to get there. I think particularly late in a game the players with most passion and strong of mind can overcome their physical problems, eg speed.

 

[light]

Dont think he was that invisible (he had a point to prove) but youre right about the wings.

put AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) there?

Are you high??

If there is one person in that back line who SHOULD NOT be moved it is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). There is no one anywhere close to him at outside centre and we shouldn't be moving guys just for the sake of covering a weak position.

Genia
To'omua
Cummins
Lilo
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
JOC (James O'Connor)
Folau

I'd have that back line starting and bring on Cooper and White earlier than last week to speed the game up. Not sure who our outside back reserve should be just yet.

 

[SaderCheif]

Here's Scott Allen's take on the match...
He's on the Roar website now.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/08/20/wallabies-video-analysis-perception-versus-reality/

 

[Dam0]

I dont think the Abs played well in attacking play or flair or anything. they do still play far more quicker, mechanical and faultless in back line play- the Wobblies always look like they're going to drop the ball. Or is it just me?..

Yeah, its pretty much just you.

Virtually every time the All Blacks had an opportunity to score a try they did. I don't know how you could say they didn't have good attacking play or flair. Whatever else may be said about this All Black team, they attack better than any other. In fact I would argue their ability to score tries papers over deficiencies in other areas of which there are numerous.

 

[PaarlBok]

You picked the wrong coach. Jake White should have been the Wallaby coach. Its going to be a long hard road.

 

[daz]

Where did we go wrong? We didn't hire Jake White.

Too soon?





EDIT: Ah, PB, you beat me to the punch!

 

[Bardon]

It's good to see G&GR back to it's argumentative best. Between the announcement of the team and the game it was like the Stepford wives around here with everyone agreeing.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

You picked the wrong coach. Jake White should have been the Wallaby coach. Its going to be a long hard road.

Come off it Paarl, way too early to be making that call. If I didn't know you better I'd say you're being a troll

 

[fatprop]

One problem is solved

Meanwhile, injury-prone Wallabies backrower Hugh McMeniman won't fly to Wellington and instead undergo a shoulder reconstruction.
The 29-year-old backrower suffered the injury during the Super Rugby season and on the advice of Wallabies medical staff will now have the surgery.
Playing his last Test in 2008, McMeniman made his return to the Wallabies fold at blindside flanker in Sydney.
The Australians won't bring another player into the squad, with Brumbies forward Scott Fardy most likely to go into the starting side.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/wallabies-arent-worried-about-nz-injury-woes-as-mcmeninam-ruled-out-of-rugby-championship-20130820-2s8vd.html#ixzz2cUVhTsWh

 

[glenn byrne]

You note i wrote AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with a big question mark Alan. Was thinking out loud. good idea to keep To'omua and bring cooper on earlier tho- Id like to see how he goes a second time round. My point however was Folua and how to inject him into the game. leaving him on the wing is not going to do that. When i finish smoking my doobey ill try and give you a better example but everyone is saying "how"- i was trying to provide a solution and not a whinge.

and Damo the part about "is it me" is the wallabies comment. And no, the AB's captialise on mistakes- as theyve always done v well. Theyre not that imaginative in attacking play or 'flair'. doesnt mean that theyre shite because of it tho which is what youve ipso facto assumed.

glad everyones reading these posts properly.

 

[Gurz]

Bring back George Smith again...............