Where did we go wrong? Wallaby Recovery thread.

[Pfitzy]

Their depth is one point.

But the amount of actual rugby players that the Boks and ABs have put up over recent years who are all over us for pace is pretty comprehensive.

It's why, when we break out, we get run down. While when they break out, we have no one capable of catching them.

 

[Scotty]

But the thing about Mogg is this- some of us had doubts about his ability to handle top-flight, test rugby. This was based on a few things- his tendency to go missing in big games for the Brumbies, his lack of physicality, and his occasional reliance on low-percentage plays.

I still would have picked him, but I was worried. And our worries were proven. He made quite a few mistakes which the ABs capitalised on- shanked kicks (one of which gave the ABs the pill and position from which McCaw scored) and missed tackles.

I don't disagree that he deserves another chance, but I can't stand people talking about him as the 'next Latham'. He isn't the next anything, not after two fucking tests. He COULD be a very good player but this isn't a foregone conclusion, and he won't magically turn into one if we give him unlimited game time.

So I am all for Mogg, but I don't believe he will simply turn into a great player if we all provide him with unlimited support and love. After all we have Israel Folau, and he is on a path to be the next Lomu...

I've talked about him in terms of reminding me of Latham, however there are major differences at this stage:

A) Latham dominated super rugby game in, game out and just needed polishing/confidence to take that to test matches - Mogg by comparison has fallen off at the pointy end of the season

B) Latham was (and is) 100kgs of muscle. Mogg would be lucky to get into the late 80's

C) Latham only started playing rugby when he was 18 - hence being a late bloomer. Mogg has had more time to be a dominant force.

 

[Dam0]

Speed is important, but only to an extent.

Guys like Dagg, Ben Smith and Corey Jane are not slouches, but they are hardly out and out speedsters either. When you come in further, Nonu and Conrad Smith are not particularly fast at all, not these days anyway.

The only really fast guys we have/had are Maitland (gone overseas), Guildford and J Savea. Masaga was very quick and Piutau is apparently quick also.

 

[Slim 293]

Being a little facetious I presume.

I wasn't so sure due to barbarian's serious man crush on Folau........

 

[Bullrush]

Speed is important, but only to an extent.

Guys like Dagg, Ben Smith and Corey Jane are not slouches, but they are hardly out and out speedsters either. When you come in further, Nonu and Conrad Smith are not particularly fast at all, not these days anyway.

The only really fast guys we have/had are Maitland (gone overseas), Guildford and J Savea. Masaga was very quick and Piutau is apparently quick also.

I think Dagg is pretty quick but yeah - not a huge amount of out-and-out speed in the ABs. It's even been a bit of an issue for the 7's I think.

Maybe it actually works in our favour. Given that we know we don't have a lot of players who will beat their man for pure pace, we have to work harder to back-up and support line-breaks.

Just a thought.....

 

[I like to watch]

It's an old saying but the AB's are generally "quick between the ears"
Therefore their need for an out and out speedster is diminished to a large degree.

 

[cyclopath]

I wasn't so sure due to barbarian's serious man crush on Folau....

Slim 293 Superb!! Well played. I just don't get it when people have man-crushes on certain players.........

 

[Slim 293]

I think we all have a man crush or two..........

Mine is currently Scott Fardy, but he needs to do something about that lack of beard..........

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Aus are fine, they'll still thump other countries that are not NZ.

If they want to thump NZ they might want to find the next Toutai Kefu, get rid of soppy Simmons, turn Skelton and Timani into murder machines, find an evil prop (Sio?), light a rocket under Oompa Loompa Genia and get Beale on track.

Piece of piss!

 

[Zander]

Dismal Pillock.. ha.

 

[cyclopath]

Aus are fine, they'll still thump other countries that are not NZ.

If they want to thump NZ they might want to find the next Toutai Kefu, get rid of soppy Simmons, turn Skelton and Timani into murder machines, find an evil prop (Sio?), light a rocket under Oompa Loompa Genia and get Beale on track.

Piece of piss!

We don't believe you Kiwis anymore!! It all sounds nice, but then.........

 

[p.Tah]

It's an old saying but the AB's are generally "quick between the ears"

Quick or thick?

 

[fatprop]

To me, the Wobs are lacking urgency, attitude & the ability to execute the basic skills under pressure when compared to the ABs.

Sent from my phone

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Benn Robinson needs to come back into the fold now. Our scrum got smashed on the weekend and both Alexander and Sio weren't up to the task.

Mogg should be given a spell on the sidelines. He was reasonable in the second test but still not great. The biggest upsides of his game this season in his general field kicking and counter attacking running have been almost non-existant.

We badly need Genia and Moore to improve their form. They're too important to the team to be playing well below their best. We also need TPN back healthy to give Moore some support.

 

[fatprop]

Not sure about Robinson, Slipper has done OK at starting LHP, and Sio is worth persevering with. I am unsure about Alexander as a THP, but the next cab would be Ryan and just I don't know whether he will scrum any better.


For the next game I would play

1 Slipper
2 Moore - he won't give away 7 turnovers again, I hope
3 Alexander
4 Horwill
5 Fardy
6 Mowen
7 Hooper
8 McCalman
9 Genia
10 To'omua
11 Cummins
12 Lilo
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 JOC (James O'Connor)
15 Folau

16 Faainga
17 Sio
18 Kepu
19 Simmons
20 Gill
21 White
22 Cooper
23 Mogg

 

[Braveheart81]

Not sure about Robinson, Slipper has done OK at starting LHP, and Sio is worth persevering with. I am unsure about Alexander as a THP, but the next cab would be Ryan and just I don't know whether he will scrum any better.

Slipper has been pretty good and I agree that Sio is going to be a big part of our front row for years to come, but I think it is a mistake not to bring Robinson back into the mix, particularly when our scrum and set piece in general is far from excellent at the moment.

Robinson is too good to simply be discarded until a selection change is forced by injury.

Sio hasn't done anything so far to suggest that his position in the side is so assured he shouldn't sit out for a week to give Robinson another crack.

 

[wamberal]

I have said it before, Sio is built like a THP. We have got a few up and coming LHPs. The only other young THP that looks promising (to me, anyway) is Alo-Emile. Started for Waikato on the weekend.

 

[Richo]

Something needs to happen in the scrums. We look better with Kepu on than Alexander, IMO. Whether Robbo would make a difference is hard to say, but rotating Sio to find out would be very wise. I can't help but think that experienced campaigners like Woodcock have adjusted very well to the new laws.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think Benn Robinson needs to come back into the fold now. Our scrum got smashed on the weekend and both Alexander and Sio weren't up to the task.

Mogg should be given a spell on the sidelines. He was reasonable in the second test but still not great. The biggest upsides of his game this season in his general field kicking and counter attacking running have been almost non-existant.

We badly need Genia and Moore to improve their form. They're too important to the team to be playing well below their best. We also need TPN back healthy to give Moore some support.

I do agree that Benn Robbo needs to be brought back in, but it is much too early to discard Scott Sio on the basis of one game, in which the whole scrum was outplayed. This after the Wallabies scrum had the better of the ABs in the first test. Seems to me to be the same old problem; concentrating on improving in other areas like the breakdown and attack lines to the detriment of the areas that had performed well the previous week.

Would like to see Jesse Mogg on the bench as wing/15 cover. Think he would benefit from some time on the pine and being brought into the game late. Would especially like to see him get some time on the wing.

I am starting to think that Steven Moore might be having technical problems adapting to the new scrum laws due to his build and size. Would TPN have similar difficulties? Might be time to go with a smaller, more flexible hooker. Siaia just might come into his own.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Slipper has been pretty good and I agree that Sio is going to be a big part of our front row for years to come, but I think it is a mistake not to bring Robinson back into the mix, particularly when our scrum and set piece in general is far from excellent at the moment.

Robinson is too good to simply be discarded until a selection change is forced by injury.

Sio hasn't done anything so far to suggest that his position in the side is so assured he shouldn't sit out for a week to give Robinson another crack.

As I said elsewhere, I think Sio should stay. He is the future, and had a very good game in the first test. I think it is time to bring Robbo back, and maybe to move Slipper back to TH where he played the majority of his games this year. Either Benny A or Kepu (my choice) to drop out. Also keen to see Salesi Manu get a go at TH sooner rather than later.