Where to for Super Rugby?

[chibimatty]

...Sure we lose players; but when we've got 100+ players playing overseas on salaries less than NRL level; one must ask themselves what the point is keeping the status quo?...

Jeez that's a real damning point.

 

[cyclopath]

I think we're all old enough here to remember the death of NSL and the birth of the A-League. They were plagued by very much the same problems Rugby Australia face today in dwindling finances & junior participation and fans turning away from the game in disgust (although for different reasons - racially fueled violence causing games to be played in closed stadiums, clubs separated along ethnic lines)

A controlled bankruptcy enabled Football Australia to rid themselves of "The leather patch brigade/old school tie network" who were hell bent on keeping the NSL in the 1980's 1920's.

Now they're in the position where there are upwards of 10 bids for A-league licenses being put forward. This is why bankruptcy is so appealing. Sure we lose players; but when we've got 100+ players playing overseas on salaries less than NRL level; one must ask themselves what the point is keeping the status quo?

If we get things right locally and manage to cut 1/3 of each of the NRL's and AFL's lunch; we'd nearly have more broadcast revenue than the Premiership & Top 14 combined..

It'd be awesome, but will never happen.

 

[Strewthcobber]

NRL salary cap = $9.5m aud

Top 14 salary cap = 11.3m euro ($17.7m Aud)

Aviva premiership salary cap = 7m GBP ($12.5m Aud)

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/i...ed-as-top-14-salaries-double-over-last-decade


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[half]

A brilliant article by Geoff Parks

Will Grassroots & Professional Rugby ever embrace each other.

Well worth reading, tis mega to the power of mega long but worth the effort.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/04/...utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=editors_picks

 

[hoggy]

A brilliant article by Geoff Parks

Will Grassroots & Professional Rugby ever embrace each other.

Well worth reading, tis mega to the power of mega long but worth the effort.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/04/...utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=editors_picks

His book is a good read, but a touch of salt is recommended, Parkes is a staunch RA supporter and Test rugby proponent. He highlights many of the dilemmas but only ever advocates one approach.

 

[half]

My hobby horse, re private ownership, and you will never know unless you ask.

From smh today. https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer...-to-have-finally-arrived-20180628-p4zoci.html

in part it reads as we reduce teams. I believe 15 applications to join.

But after 19 days of silence it appears the FFA are finally set to make an announcement on Friday morning, with eight teams expected to be shortlisted.
The shortlisted teams will have two months to submit their final applications, before the two new A-League teams are announced on October 31.

 

[hoggy]

My hobby horse, re private ownership, and you will never know unless you ask.

From smh today. https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer...-to-have-finally-arrived-20180628-p4zoci.html

in part it reads as we reduce teams. I believe 15 applications to join.

You have to wonder which model will give you growth, how many applications would rugby get right now

 

[zer0]

An article and stats on Super Rugby attendance, with a little bit of TV viewership at the end. By country:

In 2017, New Zealand crowds had increased by 7.27 per cent since 2015, as the Hurricanes, Blues, Chiefs and Crusaders had a larger average attendance than they did two years previous.

The Hurricanes were attracting an average of 16,901 people to Westpac Stadium each week, more than 3000 more than in 2015. Blues crowds were up 18.27 per cent, an extra 2000 people each night. The Chiefs and Crusaders had small gains, but gains they had.

Only the Highlanders saw crowds decline in that period, down from an average of 18,500 in 2015 to 14,751 in 2017 - a drop of 20.26 per cent.

By comparison, South Africa lost almost a quarter of their crowds, and Australian audiences shrunk by nearly 20 per cent.

The Bulls' average crowd of 2017 was just a third of what it was in 2015, dropping from 26,492 to just 9347 in that period.

In total, only four teams in Super Rugby increased their average attendance over that three year period, and all four were New Zealand teams.

In relation to other competitions:

In 2015, the average crowd size across [Super Rugby] was 19,163, making it easily the world's biggest rugby competition by average attendance.

Last year, that overall average had dropped to just 14,436, a 24.67 per cent drop in attendance in just two years, and brings Super Rugby back to the chasing pack.

Super Rugby remains the rugby competition with the highest average attendance, based on 2017 figures. It averaged about 300 people a game more than the Aviva Premiership in England, and 900 more than the Top 14 in France.

But those big European leagues are holding steady with their attendance figures. In England, average attendance increased four per cent from 2015 to 2017, while the Top 14 declined by 5.59 per cent. The Pro14, which includes Italy, Ireland, and now a pair of South African teams, had an increase of one per cent.

Article then proceeds to go into looking at ground capacity, local population base, and TV viewership. There's also some interactive tables to visualise the stats in the article itself, but I can't seem to embed them here. They're worth a look.

 

[kiap]

An article and stats on Super Rugby attendance, with a little bit of TV viewership at the end.

“If New Zealand Rugby was a person, they would be lamenting the annoying parasites clinging to their back.”​

The time is nigh for NZ to have their own pro competition free from this impediment. Sooner this happens the better for all.

“South Africa lost almost a quarter of their crowds, and Australian audiences shrunk by nearly 20 per cent.”​

Australian soup teams lie about their attendances and even freely admit to it. Additionally, when the numbers are truly dire they simply don't report. Those statistics are useless.

 

[ForceFan]

Where to for Super Rugby?

Pull the plug now if the crowd for the Blues v Reds is any indication.

If it wasn't for all of the Cuz Bros and Rellies of the Blues team turning up, the production team would have been very lonely.

 

[kiap]

Where to for Super Rugby?

Pull the plug now if the crowd for the Blues v Reds is any indication.

If it wasn't for all of the Cuz Bros and Rellies of the Blues team turning up, the production team would have been very lonely.

C'mon. Someone's gotta pay for the lights …

 

[Strewthcobber]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12080243&ref=rss

NZ Hearld are reporting that SANZAAR are meeting at the moment and have a preferred Super Rugby model post World Cup.

14 team round robin comp, Finished before the test window in July. 14 teams includes a Pacific Island team, probably based on Fiji. Means two teams need to go, which is probably Sunwolves + a SA team, or two SA teams, who could head north to play on the Pro comp

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12080243&ref=rss

NZ Hearld are reporting that SANZAAR are meeting at the moment and have a preferred Super Rugby model post World Cup.

14 team round robin comp, Finished before the test window in July. 14 teams includes a Pacific Island team, probably based on Fiji. Means two teams need to go, which is probably Sunwolves + a SA team, or two SA teams, who could head north to play on the Pro comp

The two teams that need to be cut are definitely SA teams and they are definitely going north. Pro wants more SA teams and the Lions and Sharks have expressed interest in going.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12080243&ref=rss

NZ Hearld are reporting that SANZAAR are meeting at the moment and have a preferred Super Rugby model post World Cup.

14 team round robin comp, Finished before the test window in July. 14 teams includes a Pacific Island team, probably based on Fiji. Means two teams need to go, which is probably Sunwolves + a SA team, or two SA teams, who could head north to play on the Pro comp

The other interesting scenario is it does not address the Western Force, but if the Sunwolves exit it potentially frees up possible Japanese inclusion into that comp.

And the other issue is from an Australian prospective, you are solely relying on Test rugby from July to present to the market place, can you grow the code here that way.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^ that's been the case for several years now though, hasn't it?

Seems odd to dump the Sunwolves immediately after RWC, I'd have thought they'd at least give them time to see if hosting the Cup kick-starts rugby in Japan as a mainstream sport as opposed to the current corporate model.

EDIT: hadn't seen the article so clicked the link. Look at the by-line. This is the guy who recently wrote a piece slating ARU for expanding into WA too soon after Melbourne. He makes basic errors like that all the time. The guy has no clue & I'd be amazed if anyone who knows what's truly going on would bother talking to him off the record.

 

[Strewthcobber]

The other interesting scenario is it does not address the Western Force, but if the Sunwolves exit it potentially frees up possible Japanese inclusion into that comp.

And the other issue is from an Australian prospective, you are solely relying on Test rugby from July to present to the market place, can you grow the code here that way.

Completely giving up on NRC?

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[dru]

The two SA teams left in Super. How much would they have to play overseas?

Does not seem workable.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The two SA teams left in Super. How much would they have to play overseas?

Does not seem workable.

It would be SA's way of keeping a foot in SANZAAR for the sake of the RC. But I like to believe they can go north and remain in the RC. They already manage in the 6Ns window adding another amendment to that shouldn't be too hard.

We could the resort to a largely Asia-Pacific Super Rugby. Our 4 or 5 plus Japan and Fiji. The NZ 5 and we either just bring the Jaguares for 12 rounds or find a 14th team four the outlined structure in the article.

 

[dru]

It would be SA's way of keeping a foot in SANZAAR for the sake of the RC. But I like to believe they can go north and remain in the RC. They already manage in the 6Ns window adding another amendment to that shouldn't be too hard.

We could the resort to a largely Asia-Pacific Super Rugby. Our 4 or 5 plus Japan and Fiji. The NZ 5 and we either just bring the Jaguares for 12 rounds or find a 14th team four the outlined structure in the article.

WCR I think you get my point but you don't address it. If Super is going to S14 by way of only two RSA teams, then their flight miles per game goes from stratospheric to astronomical. It is a nonsense for South Africa. Far more effective to simply bail out of Super completely.

***
Not my original point, however:

In the mean time it Leaves Australia buddied up with NZ. And so far NZ interest in addressing Aus requirements remains as close to nil that they can muster. If this is what they want, then they can start with reabsorbing Force into Super and by changing entry rules to the ABs.

Otherwise we are STILL better bailing on Super, as well as RSA.

 

[Braveheart81]

The South African teams would presumably do a five week tour instead of four. 2 away games in Australia and 3 in NZ/Fiji.

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