Where to for Super Rugby?

[Wilson]

You could do both. There's no reason why you couldn't build say an 10 team league that draws in the best in the world alongside domestic talent while developing greater community links. And the IPL isn't the worst model to emulate. They do have foreign players quotas after all. Four imports on the pitch at any one time and no more than 10 in the squad overall. We could have similar in such a competition.

I'm not sure I like the transitory nature of the foreign players in an IPL system for us. I don't think it'll have particularly good cut through for non-rugby fans until the competition is popular if you have players only at a team for a year or two, and given the much greater need for combinations to be developed in rugby vs cricket I'm not sure the imports would deliver results on the field in that model.

As far as foreign player numbers go, IPL uses a much greater percentage than what I'd like to see - the IPL numbers are around a 3rd of the players in a match day side, which would be around 8 of the 23 for a rugby side. This is way too high for mine.

I do like the idea of some sort of big money foreign import competition being run as an extra, but I don't think it can be our key domestic competition and I think we need a stronger base before we can start to explore it. Potentially it's worth looking at something like the tens again down the line for that big name international comp.

 

[Derpus]

The more i think about it the more im convinced we should start from scratch given the obvious 10 team TT seems to be off the table.

I don't think there is anything we could do that would make any number of Australian teams as competitive as the NZ ones, short of banning NRL, AFL and Soccer.

Reality is, we are fourth in the pecking order where as rugby over there is first. It'll never be equal. Thus - we should just create our own competition. Given we have no money this means giving over control to private equity - which could be a good thing in the long run.

It would also give us a chance to get some representation where there currently isnt, like western Sydney.

Edit: a kiwi actually pointed out that we made a mistake making it state based - because we can only get one team in our traditional strongholds (where as AFL and NRL heavily tap Melbourne and Sydney respectively). It was a good point i thought.

 

[dru]

The more i think about it the more im convinced we should start from scratch given the obvious 10 team TT seems to be off the table.

I don't think there is anything we could do that would make any number of Australian teams as competitive as the NZ ones, short of banning NRL, AFL and Soccer.

Reality is, we are fourth in the pecking order where as rugby over there is first. It'll never be equal. Thus - we should just create our own competition. Given we have no money this means giving over control to private equity - which could be a good thing in the long run.

It would also give us a chance to get some representation where there currently isnt, like western Sydney.

Welcome to Domestic Comp pundits, Derpus - it's taken time but time well spent.

We may even get what we want, more to the point, given
a) Hamish apparent willingness to hold his ground;
b) reaction from Aus rugby world generally in relation to Kiwi proposal for TT going forward;
any TT that does eventuate should be a lot closer to something we need.

It has been depressing times, but nascent optimism is building here.

Time will tell.

 

[Derpus]

I don't know much about Queensland rugby but is a Country/City divide viable? (Reds being City - new team being country a little like the Cowboys i guess?)

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The more i think about it the more im convinced we should start from scratch given the obvious 10 team TT seems to be off the table.

I don't think there is anything we could do that would make any number of Australian teams as competitive as the NZ ones, short of banning NRL, AFL and Soccer.

Reality is, we are fourth in the pecking order where as rugby over there is first. It'll never be equal. Thus - we should just create our own competition. Given we have no money this means giving over control to private equity - which could be a good thing in the long run.

It would also give us a chance to get some representation where there currently isnt, like western Sydney.

Edit: a kiwi actually pointed out that we made a mistake making it state based - because we can only get one team in our traditional strongholds (where as AFL and NRL heavily tap Melbourne and Sydney respectively). It was a good point i thought.

If you go from eyeballs on screens we're comfortably third. But I do agree. We should start afresh if we can secure the necessary funding to do so. We even have a reasonable model in place in the NRC to work off. Replace Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Rising and Spirit with our 5 current professional squads. Elevate the two Country squads to full professionalism and bring in the Drua. That would be a solid 8 team 14 rounds platform to launch from. If there's interest and funding available potentially look to go to 10 but no more.

Part of doing this should also be mapping out the direction you want the competition to grow. In terms of number of teams and locations.

 

[dru]

I don't know much about Queensland rugby but is a Country/City divide viable? (Reds being City - new team being country a little like the Cowboys i guess?)

I'm not close enough to it to say. It would need splitting the Reds wider playing group. A lot of the "country" players are still SEQ as far as I can tell - Gold Coast for instance. Also Bond Uni has big stakes in the NRC Country team, so I don't see them relocating to FNQ.

The fascination with the Qld NRC teams, for me, was seeing broader talent as possibles for the next season Reds.

Who knows though. I doubt we'll see much planning until a way forward is closer.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I don't know much about Queensland rugby but is a Country/City divide viable? (Reds being City - new team being country a little like the Cowboys i guess?)

Interesting question. I've always got the sense there's certainly a North/South divide.

 

[dru]

Interesting question. I've always got the sense there's certainly a North/South divide.

Reds spent quite some effort in preseason with players bonding in country areas - some of that VERY country. Also the QPR is seeing a lot of names returning in 2021 who had a shot at Super, but migrated for better opportunity. They would presumably jump at the chance in any new comp.

As an example here is sa post from the Whisperer on the QPR thread:

From what I've heard:

Albert Anae, Scott Gale, Con Foley, Alex Horan (UQ)
Richie Asiata, Aiden Toua, Phoenix Hunt, Landon Hayes, Tom Milosevic, Kirwan Sanday, Dylan Taikato-Simpson (Easts) Have heard Ed Quirk training at Easts, unsure if playing for them or not
Nigel Ah Wong (Sunnybank)
Matt Mafi (Brothers)
Samu Kerevi (GPS) Unsure if just training or playing too

I'm sure there are more

Also Quade is in town.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Reds spent quite some effort in preseason with players bonding in fluffybunnyry areas - some of that VERY country. Also the QPR is seeing a lot of names returning in 2021 who had a shot at Super, but migrated for better opportunity. They would presumably jump at the chance in any new comp.

As an example here is sa post from the Whisperer on the QPR thread:



Also Quade is in town.

Gale, Foley, Asiata and DTS are all on contract with MLR franchises for next season. Gale and Foley at NOLA, Asiata for Toronto and DTS at DC. But yeah. There's certainly talent available if there's opportunity. Then there's the guys on the Manuma squad that could be signed to bolster squads. Hell, I'd even go after players on the Silktails (the team in the NSWRL structure) if not already on board at the Drua.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

A durable step up won't be instant, as kiwis will find out soon with their Hawaiian adventures.

A fact I'm sure NZR are well aware of, but it's equally a fact that in today's world they have to be seen as fully supportive of it. When the obvious impediments to a rapid setup become obvious to even the rainbow & unicorn chasers (who will likely have found new rainbows & unicorns to chase by then) I'm sure NZR will just happen to have a "Plan B" lying around that can be quickly implemented, temporarily, of course, until Kanaloa (or the Sir Michael Jones & Eroni Clarke-led consortium the Hurld claims is now in play) are ready to launch. I wouldn't expect to see either before 2022 at the very earliest.

 

[Dan54]

Yep RN, I think for a comp going forward it has to be aimed as being the very best it can be, and if private equity can be used to buy in players to provide a bit of depth, I would love it, I think it just adds to the comp's standard, let's face it the very best players we can get, playing for whoever is a bloody great plus!!! And if it means Aus has 5 very competitive teams would be tops, as a kiwi,I bet I like a lot of others would be happy to see Aus teams winning the comp because they are fielding best teams wherever they from!!!!

 

[The Honey Badger]

I don't know much about Queensland rugby but is a Country/City divide viable? (Reds being City - new team being country a little like the Cowboys i guess?)

City/country is the obvious way to go in both NSW & QLD.

Not sure what you mean by viable. I am assuming they will have the same budget as the other teams, so should be able to put competitive teams out there.

Where they play and how big a crowd is not know. But we know the city teams not pulling big crowds either,

I think at major regional centers, 7-10K crowds are a possibility,

Panthers pull a good crowd when they play at Bathurst. Brand new stadium being built at Orange will seat 8500

 

[RugbyFuture]

sooo......we're reverting to the NRC....

 

[RugbyFuture]

Super Rugby completely missed the opportunity to strongly build out "domestic" competitions back in the pool days (with 5 teams in each of NZ, AU and SA) considering the saffas have always wanted more teams that would equal the top tier of the curry cup and the kiwis have always had clear amounts of talent, each pool could have kept expanding to suit the needs of the countries, culminating in the "Super Rugby" Heineken cup style comp. could have even just straight out added pools from Arg and Japan.

Given Rugby AU are already in the black, they can set up with private equity and dictate some rules and start the 6 or 8 team comp locally, dump the NRC and bring back the Rams

 

[Quick Hands]

Welcome to Domestic Comp pundits, Derpus - it's taken time but time well spent.

We may even get what we want, more to the point, given
a) Hamish apparent willingness to hold his ground;
b) reaction from Aus rugby world generally in relation to Kiwi proposal for TT going forward;
any TT that does eventuate should be a lot closer to something we need.

It has been depressing times, but nascent optimism is building here.

Time will tell.

Reality will convert them all in the end.

 

[Dan54]

[quote="kiap, post: 1149287, member: 211

A durable step up won't be instant, as kiwis will find out soon with their Hawaiian adventures.[/quote]

Where did you get the PI thing was a NZ thing? It a private company run for the islands and got nothing to do with NZR that I have ever heard of. Maybe you got info that we don't!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

New NZR Board member Bart Campbell, currently exiting Chairmanship & part-ownership of the Melbourne Storm, might just be the guy to get NZR & RA on the same page:

“It’s self-evident we are mutually inter-dependant,” he adds of a process that has clearly got the Australians’ backs up. “I know Rob (Clarke) from when he was running the Rebels and I knew Hamish McLennan in his previous life, and have got to know him again over the last few days. Fundamentally they are sensible people, doing the best job they can for their stake-holders.”

“I would encourage Rugby Australia to focus on getting their teams as strong as possible to get as many as possible into the competition. They will be our partners and fellow shareholders in this competition, if they so desire, and hopefully [people] can get around a virtual table and nut out the details. I trust cooler heads will prevail.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...cience-clear-as-he-returns-to-his-rugby-roots

 

[Rebels3]

That sounds to me that someone is open to 5 Aus sides, with the obvious caveat that squad quality would have to improve. Hence 3 decent imports and maybe some returning Aus talent to help with that.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

That sounds to me that someone is open to 5 Aus sides, with the obvious caveat that squad quality would have to improve. Hence 3 decent imports and maybe some returning Aus talent to help with that.

I am really attracted to a franchise model that allows for more free flowing movement of players and just still feel if NZ will never budge from their policy of only allowing players based in NZ to represent the AB's (as opposed to extended regional competition they are part of) will not make for the best regional model long term and not convinced hence getting in bed with NZ best idea.

So part of really does hope for a a model we go it alone per the alternative RA proposed 8 team competition not involving NZ with private equity investment to get suitable quality imports to improve quality and attract more fans to grow the game. Question is what models private equity will support and not support key here.

To grow the game we need a decent footprint to compete with AFL, NRL etc but to have the decent footprint and quality we need to have private investment and marquee / import quota's of suitable quality players.

 

[KOB1987]

That sounds to me that someone is open to 5 Aus sides, with the obvious caveat that squad quality would have to improve. Hence 3 decent imports and maybe some returning Aus talent to help with that.

Maybe RA should add the caveat that NZR have to bolster the Chiefs squad too.