Where to for Super Rugby?

[Adam84]

I have no doubt he watched games, he would of seen the big crowds at Suncorp for the final, probably the second biggest crowd when Reds played Crusaders, and also the crowds at Sydney and Melbourne..

Dan, the crowd at Suncorp to watch the Reds v Crusaders was built on the back of the Super Rugby AU success, not TT success.

In fact I'd go as far to say if it weren't for the Super Rugby Au re-engaging disgruntled fans then the ratings and crowds for TT would have been significantly worse.

 

[Adam84]

Look mate. of course he know the issues, but maybe as I said difference how we think it should be done, you either go to papers and say your own board doesn't know what it wants but you want a comp like such and such, or you talk to your own board , work out what you want and then tell the people involved. Well maybe I expect too much from people to talk face to face, and you don't so we obviously have different ways of living .

NZRU really only have themselves to blame on this based on how they've handled negotiations and planning the past 18months, they didn't engage or talk face to face with Australia from the start rather did their own planning released their own report on what the Super Rugby model looked like.

You're getting upset about some comments to a newspaper, imagine how angry Australian rugby fans were reading the Aratipu Report.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

So tell me, do you think PI teams should be in Super?
And will you be refusing to watch it if RA doesn't make Australian players available for Drua?

Dan I think Pi teams should be in but provided they are given assistance to do so. Australian govt just given funding to Fiji rugby. I don’t think Drua will need Australian players or would ask for that as Fiji has enough depth long term to be competitive against 5 oz sides as nrc showed just with their local players. And if Fiji was part of long term plans of oz super rugby competition I am sure RA would consider this given would provide more pathways for oz teams. You are creating diversions Dan as it is clear fact nz has way greater depth then other Asia Pacific side to support 5 sides.

 

[Dan54]

NZRU really only have themselves to blame on this based on how they've handled negotiations and planning the past 18months, they didn't engage or talk face to face with Australia from the start rather did their own planning released their own report on what the Super Rugby model looked like.

You're getting upset about some comments to a newspaper, imagine how angry Australian rugby fans were reading the Aratipu Report.

Ok fair enough, the only reason there were a crowd at Reds/Crusaders was because of Super Au success, only reason the ratings were up was because of Super Au success(and I not arguing), just notice that noone is saying ratings up because it was first year that super rugby was ever on free to air? See we can find reasons that suit us for everything, I not sure what right or wrong, as noone here is. And we don't know what ratings are for Stan etc do we?
To be clear the ratings for Super Au in NZ is probably very very poor, I don't know anyone at rugby club etc that is as desperate as me and stays up and watches it. Most say they wouldn't care if thay didn't see the Aus teams, but I say the same to them, both comps need each other, because a 5-6 team comp will not last more than a year or so, regardless how well the rugby we getting here is.

 

[spikhaza]

Can I charge a policy fee to Rugby AU for this?

 

[Dan54]

Dan I think Pi teams should be in but provided they are given assistance to do so. Australian govt just given funding to Fiji rugby. I don’t think Drua will need Australian players or would ask for that as Fiji has enough depth long term to be competitive against 5 oz sides as nrc showed just with their local players. And if Fiji was part of long term plans of oz super rugby competition I am sure RA would consider this given would provide more pathways for oz teams. You are creating diversions Dan as it is clear fact nz has way greater depth then other Asia Pacific side to support 5 sides.

How much money has Aus Gov't provided just out of interest. And if you think Drua will be competitive with Reds etc, that is good, but still surprised that you think NZ should share players, but not Aus. See I believe Aus teams can be competitive with NZ teams too. I believe I saw a couple of Aus teams win in TT.

 

[Adam84]

How much money has Aus Gov't provided just out of interest.

"The Australian Government has provided funding to help establish the Fijian Drua and their potential inclusion in the Super Rugby Trans-Tasman competition next year as well as support the Men’s and Women’s National 7s teams for the Tokyo Olympics. It will also support the Fijiana to join Rugby Australia’s Super W competition.

The value of funding has not been revealed.

FRU CEO John O’Connor says they are humbled and grateful to the Australian Government for the support and without it they would not have been able to participate in the Oceania 7s this weekend.

O’Connor says the funding for the Fijian Drua will help them bring back their best players home from overseas and retain the local players.

He says it will also allow them to offer full-time playing contracts to ensure they can field a highly competitive team in the Super Rugby Trans-Tasman competition.
"https://www.fijivillage.com/sports/Australia-provides-funding-to-support-FRUs-high-performance-programs-548xrf/

 

[spikhaza]

Hopefully Fiji also fall into our sphere of influence and get some more votes aligned with us at World Rugby

 

[liquor box]

"The Australian Government has provided funding to help establish the Fijian Drua and their potential inclusion in the Super Rugby Trans-Tasman competition next year as well as support the Men’s and Women’s National 7s teams for the Tokyo Olympics. It will also support the Fijiana to join Rugby Australia’s Super W competition.

The value of funding has not been revealed.

FRU CEO John O’Connor says they are humbled and grateful to the Australian Government for the support and without it they would not have been able to participate in the Oceania 7s this weekend.

O’Connor says the funding for the Fijian Drua will help them bring back their best players home from overseas and retain the local players.

He says it will also allow them to offer full-time playing contracts to ensure they can field a highly competitive team in the Super Rugby Trans-Tasman competition.
"https://www.fijivillage.com/sports/Australia-provides-funding-to-support-FRUs-high-performance-programs-548xrf/

This seems to be an incredible waste of tax payer money, why would we fund foreign sports when the funding could be better utilised in Australia to make our population healthier by increasing participation?

There are far better ways to spend money on countries from the Pacific, maybe medical aid, vaccination programs etc. It is only 2 years since a measles outbreak occurred in the Pacific, particularly in Samoa where there was about 6000 cases, and there is a vaccine available.


On the other hand, as a Rugby fan this is good for the game.

 

[spikhaza]

This seems to be an incredible waste of tax payer money, why would we fund foreign sports when the funding could be better utilised in Australia to make our population healthier by increasing participation?

There are far better ways to spend money on countries from the Pacific, maybe medical aid, vaccination programs etc. It is only 2 years since a measles outbreak occurred in the Pacific, particularly in Samoa where there was about 6000 cases, and there is a vaccine available.


On the other hand, as a Rugby fan this is good for the game.

I can elaborate later, but it is absolutely in Australia’s National interest to be funding pacific island countries right now given China is trying to push them into its sphere of influence. We spend 1.4B alone in the pacific, a few mill for their footy team is literally the salt and pepper of the bill, I’m sure we can afford it

 

[Adam84]

This seems to be an incredible waste of tax payer money, why would we fund foreign sports when the funding could be better utilised in Australia to make our population healthier by increasing participation?

There are far better ways to spend money on countries from the Pacific, maybe medical aid, vaccination programs etc. It is only 2 years since a measles outbreak occurred in the Pacific, particularly in Samoa where there was about 6000 cases, and there is a vaccine available.

On the other hand, as a Rugby fan this is good for the game.

Because this isn't about sporting participation, this is about regional diplomacy.

Sporting Diplomacy is just one of a number of different ways to influence the region and an area Australia has a competitive advantage over countries like China, absolutely medical and education programs are the other areas to influence and this shouldn't be at the expense of those programs.

China are spending $hundreds of millions in pacific countries to secure influence over these countries, Australia cant compete financially with China but it can leverage other mechanisms. $1million spent on a Fijian Super Rugby team wins more influence over the population then China spending $200million on a new port upgrade.

And I'd argue the same thing with PNG and Rugby League.

 

[dru]

This seems to be an incredible waste of tax payer money, why would we fund foreign sports when the funding could be better utilised in Australia to make our population healthier by increasing participation?

Oh tosh. The govt position is not about bolstering Aus rugby per se, it's about Pacific diplomacy in an increasingly difficult India-Pacific region. We just happen to come out of it well. Hopefully.

On the other hand, as a Rugby fan this is good for the game.

Agree. Fiji is an obvious start in this for the govt. Wonder if the thinking has continued to Samoa and Tonga? I would think the same in New Guinea too, though you'd imagine that would be mungo, not rugby.

 

[dru]

China are spending $hundreds of millions in pacific countries to secure influence over these countries, Australia cant compete financially with China but it can leverage other mechanisms.

My understanding is that Australia $support in the Pacific is way ahead of everyone else combine. Certainly if China really dig in we can't compete, but so far I believe we are up there.

 

[Adam84]

My understanding is that Australia $support in the Pacific is way ahead of everyone else combine. Certainly if China really dig in we can't compete, but so far I believe we are up there.

Depends whether you consider long term loans as financial grants or liabilities which are to be repaid.
Australia does more in the direct funding support, China is 'investing/lending' much more through government owned companies.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

How much money has Aus Gov't provided just out of interest. And if you think Drua will be competitive with Reds etc, that is good, but still surprised that you think NZ should share players, but not Aus. See I believe Aus teams can be competitive with NZ teams too. I believe I saw a couple of Aus teams win in TT.

Dan this is churlish. There is massive imbalance by only having 5 kiwi team’s in TT given depth issues. I have said if the same issues appear in oz designed domestic competition with overseas teams involved like Fiji, of course I would support open borders policy approach. Let’s put a solution in when we have a known problem for as I said I can’t see Fiji not competitive within 2 years of oz teams given depth of quality rugby players both in Fiji, in anz and Europe/Japan.

 

[Adam84]

If I were NZRU, I'd be extremely concerned about the new 5 year deal that the NRL signed with Sky TV in New Zealand. Value is $160million over 5 years including FTA matches and contra advertising across all Sky channels.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If I were NZRU, I'd be extremely concerned about the new 5 year deal that the NRL signed with Sky TV in New Zealand. Value is $160million over 5 years including FTA matches and contra advertising across all Sky channels.

I would say by nzru behaviour and actions not concerned enough. This is what is so frustrating as while we see nzru and Ra at loggerheads we see nrl expansion continue.

 

[Zero_Cool]

I think the obvious problem with some kind of open boarder policy for Aus & NZ players (or even just from NZ to Aus), (that everyone is ignoring) is it would be devastating for the Wallabies (and to a lesser degree the All-Blacks). It's an awful solution for both the Wallabies and New Zealand. It'd be Rugby Australia would be paying for the development of All-Blacks.

I'm sorry but not too many Aussie players would be all that competitive in such a system. So while it would likely be awesome for Super Rugby it'd undermine the whole purpose of Super Rugby -- that is to prepare Wallabies & All-Blacks for Test Rugby.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think the obvious problem with some kind of open boarder policy for Aus & NZ players (or even just from NZ to Aus), (that everyone is ignoring) is it would be devastating for the Wallabies (and to a lesser degree the All-Blacks). It's an awful solution for both the Wallabies and New Zealand. It'd be Rugby Australia would be paying for the development of All-Blacks.

I'm sorry but not too many Aussie players would be all that competitive in such a system. So while it would likely be awesome for Super Rugby it'd undermine the whole purpose of Super Rugby -- that is to prepare Wallabies & All-Blacks for Test Rugby.

It would benefit all blacks but for me allow game to grow in popularity with more even competition and quality of players and hopefully expand, which benefits wallabies. That is why I don’t see why nzru so against it as don’t diagree all blacks would benefit but we would also. Anyhow said enough on this subject.

 

[Dan54]

If I were NZRU, I'd be extremely concerned about the new 5 year deal that the NRL signed with Sky TV in New Zealand. Value is $160million over 5 years including FTA matches and contra advertising across all Sky channels.

Probably, but it the usual step up for new deals, about 32 mill a year, they were paying about 20 mill. Rugby went from 32 mill a year to 80 mill, so guessing that is what new deals are worth.
Like in Aus they got competition for sports nowadays from Spark,and they lost cricket and NBL last year, so imagine they bidding pretty hard for main sports.
To be honest I actually interested to see how much is Super rugby etc in deals, as it seems that maybe Fiji and MP (Moana Pasifika) will get a cut of negotiated deals.