Where to for Super Rugby?

[Brumby Runner]

@Brumby Runner the ACT don't have a thriving Club comp, not the player base not currently playing Super Rugby. But anyway the point isn't for specific teams perse, but frankly USyd would be far better than the Vikings, but I'm sure most everyone except you would agree.

@Bullrush you could easily have NZ coaches teach Aussie or SA coaches or whatever. Again not saying all those specifics are what they should have done, but point is they are options.
The point is there are many things the NZ teams or SANZAAR could have done to ensure the competition remained more competitive top to bottom.

ZC, I am bemused by this comment. There was another poster who suggested the Vikings, not me. I simply responded to your comment that the Vikings and Brumbies would find it hard to co-exist, or something to that effect. I pointed out that Sydney Uni and the Waratahs would be similar, because it seems that the majority of Tahs players advancing from the Shute Shield come out of Sydney Uni. There are howls of disgust on these threads almost every year from SS fans who are pissed off that half the Tahs revert to Sydney Uni at the end of Super and in time to make the SS finals.

I have no great liking for the idea that the Vikings could enter a NRC type competition alongside the Brumbies, but if finances were the determining factor, I daresay they would be a whole lot more successful than a standalone Sydney Uni team.

 

[Dan54]

It's not like the NZRU walk down and tell them to go easy. But they could share their IP (coaching staff and other resources etc), they could decrease the talent retention rate, decrease salary spending etc. The comp could adjust rules or open player transfers etc. Many many many things that could have, or still could be done, but won't be.

The NRL & AFL does it all the time!

Well not sure if you noticed Penney who was coaching the Tahs, but you do have a good point about helping out with recources etc, they do it with Islands, and a lot of Aisan countries, have RA ever asked though as could be a pride thing.
Decrease talent retention is perhaps one of the crazier ideas,,are you suggesting they just tell talented kids to go to League? Same as paying less on salaries, NZR already lose a lot to league because they can get more money as young one playing league. I was under impression from a couple of posters here that Aus teams had a higher salary cap, no idea if it right.

 

[Tomikin]

ZC, I am bemused by this comment. There was another poster who suggested the Vikings, not me. I simply responded to your comment that the Vikings and Brumbies would find it hard to co-exist, or something to that effect. I pointed out that Sydney Uni and the Waratahs would be similar, because it seems that the majority of Tahs players advancing from the Shute Shield come out of Sydney Uni. There are howls of disgust on these threads almost every year from SS fans who are pissed off that half the Tahs revert to Sydney Uni at the end of Super and in time to make the SS finals.

I have no great liking for the idea that the Vikings could enter a NRC type competition alongside the Brumbies, but if finances were the determining factor, I daresay they would be a whole lot more successful than a standalone Sydney Uni team.

It was me who suggested it and caveated with the player pool would be hard... But from a financial point of view, they are set. Although I also think there one of the major sponsors or backers of the Brumbies in some description so they might not want to compete.

But yes but Money talks.. and Vikings have it.

 

[Tomikin]

Well not sure if you noticed Penney who was coaching the Tahs, but you do have a good point about helping out with recources etc, they do it with Islands, and a lot of Aisan countries, have RA ever asked though as could be a pride thing.
Decrease talent retention is perhaps one of the crazier ideas,,are you suggesting they just tell talented kids to go to League? Same as paying less on salaries, NZR already lose a lot to league because they can get more money as young one playing
league. I was under impression from a couple of posters here that Aus teams had a higher salary cap, no idea if it right.

We need to keep the talent and share around the league to even out. I know Kiwi's can come to Australia now, but being able to be selected from any team.. and teams allowed to have more players eligible for one of NZ / Australia in there squad is the biggest change. Could help Fiji and MP (Moana Pasifika) as well.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Apologies Brum Runner. In my defense you & Tomikin both have Horses as your DP. But that's my bad.

I'll admit I'm not too familiar with the makeup of the Waratahs teams form a Shute Shield perspective, I did assume they were drawing from a wider pool; (Like with the Reds, Brothers with the most at 11, UQ 7, Wests 6, and a few 3-1 from each of the others.)
But I guess my point was more around USyd having the ability to draw from the other SS clubs while there aren't those local player pools to draw from in ACT. The idea would really center around not needing to necessarily spend a lot of money, not need to have players move etc, largely because you don't know if those teams are going to be a permanent thing or if they'll be dropped after the current TV deal. Because the main issue is 5 teams is to few for a long term competition, even 6 (with Fiji) isn't ideal. You'd ideally want at least 7 or 8 teams and adding a Sydney & Brisbane team would make the most sense because the players are already there playing SS & BPR.

I just think the ACT wouldn't have the capacity for the local backing, that's required, while Brisbane/Sydney teams would; and the UQ/USyd teams would be a brilliant inclusion as they'd automatically HATE each other (I know the hatred of USyd is pretty universal by pretty much any uni but USyd), you'd have a built in supporter base, and a system, facilities etc that are all independent of the Super Rugby teams.

 

[Tomikin]

Apologies Brum Runner. In my defense you & Tomikin both have Horses as your DP. But that's my bad.

I'll admit I'm not too familiar with the makeup of the Waratahs teams form a Shute Shield perspective, I did assume they were drawing from a wider pool; (Like with the Reds, Brothers with the most at 11, UQ 7, Wests 6, and a few 3-1 from each of the others.)
But I guess my point was more around USyd having the ability to draw from the other SS clubs while there aren't those local player pools to draw from in ACT. The idea would really center around not needing to necessarily spend a lot of money, not need to have players move etc, largely because you don't know if those teams are going to be a permanent thing or if they'll be dropped after the current TV deal. Because the main issue is 5 teams is to few for a long term competition, even 6 (with Fiji) isn't ideal. You'd ideally want at least 7 or 8 teams and adding a Sydney & Brisbane team would make the most sense because the players are already there playing SS & BPR.

I just think the ACT wouldn't have the capacity for the local backing, that's required, while Brisbane/Sydney teams would; and the UQ/USyd teams would be a brilliant inclusion as they'd automatically HATE each other (I know the hatred of USyd is pretty universal by pretty much any uni but USyd), you'd have a built in supporter base, and a system, facilities etc that are all independent of the Super Rugby teams.

I'd agree with all your saying I just throw it out there because of the financial clot... Having options would be good UQ and USyd would be first cabs but if you were opening up ummm expressions of interest then it could happen... Hey we might invite a Kiwi team in lol

 

[Brumby Runner]

Apologies Brum Runner. In my defense you & Tomikin both have Horses as your DP. But that's my bad.

I'll admit I'm not too familiar with the makeup of the Waratahs teams form a Shute Shield perspective, I did assume they were drawing from a wider pool; (Like with the Reds, Brothers with the most at 11, UQ 7, Wests 6, and a few 3-1 from each of the others.)
But I guess my point was more around USyd having the ability to draw from the other SS clubs while there aren't those local player pools to draw from in ACT. The idea would really center around not needing to necessarily spend a lot of money, not need to have players move etc, largely because you don't know if those teams are going to be a permanent thing or if they'll be dropped after the current TV deal. Because the main issue is 5 teams is to few for a long term competition, even 6 (with Fiji) isn't ideal. You'd ideally want at least 7 or 8 teams and adding a Sydney & Brisbane team would make the most sense because the players are already there playing SS & BPR.

I just think the ACT wouldn't have the capacity for the local backing, that's required, while Brisbane/Sydney teams would; and the UQ/USyd teams would be a brilliant inclusion as they'd automatically HATE each other (I know the hatred of USyd is pretty universal by pretty much any uni but USyd), you'd have a built in supporter base, and a system, facilities etc that are all independent of the Super Rugby teams.

All ok. The only other comment I would add is that Canberra is close enough to Sydney to offer plenty of opportunities to Shute Shield players if they wanted to have a go at a NRC type comp but were overlooked by Tahs/Syd Uni.

 

[cyclopath]

All ok. The only other comment I would add is that Canberra is close enough to Sydney to offer plenty of opportunities to Shute Shield players if they wanted to have a go at a NRC type comp but were overlooked by Tahs/Syd Uni.

7 of the 36 man squad this year were / are from Sydney Uni. So I'm not sure the two entities are interchangeable.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Hmmm. Maybe partly explains the poor season by the Tahs?

 

[cyclopath]

Hmmm. Maybe partly explains the poor season by the Tahs?

Not really. A few of the better performers were from there but also some less notable. Just a pretty mediocre squad.

 

[sunnyboys]

At least one kiwi sees what most of us see:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/s...rol-ditch-round-robin-format-marketing-expert

 

[Adam84]

At least one kiwi sees what most of us see:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/s...rol-ditch-round-robin-format-marketing-expert

It’s a good article and spoken by someone with experience in the field, let’s hope someone in NZRU listens

 

[hoggy]

At least one kiwi sees what most of us see:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/s...rol-ditch-round-robin-format-marketing-expert

Surely the point to take is we have to stop this bullshit talk of a TT competition, cross border competitions will never work when self interest dominates.

Separate domestic competitions and then start to discuss cross over games to help with the financials.

 

[Tomikin]

academic studies had repeatedly showed a strong link between competition “uncertainty” and fan engagement, particularly in the broadcast market.

What have I been saying uncertainty of outcome...it's not rocket science..

 

[Dan54]

Doesn't everyone think that regardless of what format is being played it is well past time for NZR and RA to stop f***ing around and work it out. More importantly than what happens for NZ and Aus is deciding if PI teams are definitely in so they can start getting organised!! I find it bloody piss poor that both boards haven't come up with decision and a pox on both of them for it!!

 

[Derpus]

Yeah the actual negotiations seem to be playing out about as well as this thread. Doesn't seem likely these blokes will save the future of rugby.

 

[mst]

Yeah the actual negotiations seem to be playing out about as well as this thread. Doesn't seem likely these blokes will save the future of rugby.

A joint crack Super Rugby AU / NZ marketing team are on it. I have faith, they last worked in the Super Rugby expansion! It will be a money printing machine (or bitcoin farm),

 

[Zero_Cool]

Yeah, I don't think even just going to conferences isn't going to be enough, it'll still be a situation where the Aussie teams are still just making up the numbers even if guaranteed one or two semi-finals.

Frankly anything short of two separate competitions will really be a negative for Australian Rugby. SRTT can easily be a crossover compeition (I think take the two two from each + Japan).

 

[Adam84]

To be frank, NZRU have the human capital and money to create a competition which will boost the long term health of Rugby in Oceania, RA don’t. It’s really up to NZRU to make this work.

 

[Dan54]

To be frank, NZRU have the human capital and money to create a competition which will boost the long term health of Rugby in Oceania, RA don’t. It’s really up to NZRU to make this work.

The only way they will sort it out if RA don't have you jokers attitude that it up to NZRU to save world rugby etc, which I sure they haven't. To be honest if they go seperate ways I think it wrong, but if they do I really believe they should do it completely, no free rights to each other tv telecasts , so can each stand on own feet. NZR's $80 mill agreement apparently doesn't involve seperate comps, so we will have to live with Super AO , and then North/South games and whatever else they sort out, and Aus can have there 5-6 team comp and whatever else they chose.
Problem sorted!!!