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Where to for Super Rugby?

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Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Grassroots support has to exist before anything else. All our competitors grew from the ground up. Yes, they had a lot of advantages compared to us, but nevertheless their grassroots came before the success, not as a result of it (although of course success is great in terms of growing the grassroots. Fame, money, exposure, all these things lead to greater participation).

This is absolutely correct, and it's why the ARU "top down" strategy instigated by JON c2000 is the root cause of the parlous situation in which we now find ourselves.

Successive administrations have treated club rugby as the enemy and have sought, at almost every turn, to make life difficult for them and to assert the intellectual primacy of the elites running the game over the ordinary rugby participant.

The disconnect between the administration and the clubs is almost complete and has sent the game in Australia to the point of bankruptcy (off the field) and to the point of collapse on it.
 

half

Alan Cameron (40)
This is absolutely correct, and it's why the ARU "top down" strategy instigated by JON c2000 is the root cause of the parlous situation in which we now find ourselves.

Successive administrations have treated club rugby as the enemy and have sought, at almost every turn, to make life difficult for them and to assert the intellectual primacy of the elites running the game over the ordinary rugby participant.

The disconnect between the administration and the clubs is almost complete and has sent the game in Australia to the point of bankruptcy (off the field) and to the point of collapse on it.


1968015_stock-photo-clapping-smiley.jpg
 

half

Alan Cameron (40)
Been back about two weeks .

Am no longer interested in Super Rugby. Just hope we are smart enough to give the game back to the people.

Actually what was the main thing that brought me back looking at what the FFA have done and it sounds very simple and I think is just took forever to get everyone on board.

But by fuck its starting to build the same night Liverpool played SFC, there was an FFA cup night and its still local v local games and South Melbourne V Dandenong City

The match got over 36, 000 facebook views. Now many of those could have been 5 seconds, some could have been people coming back in so it can't be compared to a Fox average.

Here is one of there broadcast it got just over 1, 000 youtube views and 12K facebook views.


This is local V local they also do it for their National Premier League.
 

half

Alan Cameron (40)
Quick

Let me answer the question before it is asked by some. All are important to rugby especially the third point.

Question to Half from the G&GRF. Please tell us why these 100 National Premier League clubs are important and these broadcast.

Three reasons,

1] It helps create locals having a club they can go to and get noticed by the larger professional clubs.

Creating reasons for kids and their parents to choose soccer amongst other things. Also by have 100 coaching directors running 100 academies it helps create a well trained pool of players.

2] Its building brand awareness of soccer and then localising it. So so so important in growing the player base and future watchers of screens.

3] The AFL in particular and the NRL as well are in their homeland states what marketers call the mature phase of the product cycle. Meaning it almost impossible for these two codes to maintain their current levels of support in their homeland states and therefore they need to expand in their non heartland states to counter a decline in their homeland states.

Meaning the net and global forces cannot be stopped from getting into the southern states.

Plus you can get stories like this published in the age, http://www.theage.com.au/sport/socc...ential-bumper-cup-payday-20170525-gwd9n9.html

Then on the News sports site this was a top four story for a few hours with people screaming about their local team.

This does have an effect, we are becoming invisible.

Become inclusive and these models can be copied [not the FFA cup but the NPL]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/footba...y/news-story/2b97a28ede709f2c3f9695e31b6feda5
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
This is a long post so instead of taking up real estate here I've just posted it as a page on my blog. It's my proposal for a NEW format for Super Rugby rather than cutting a team.

Summary.
3 x confs. 6 in each. AFRICA | AU + JAPAN | NZ + ARG
Home & Away + 1 x Bye
Top 2 from each Conf into Finals
Top 2 teams (by points on leaderboard) Bye first week of Finals
Semis
Final

Reasoning.
A season of intense local derbies, home & away, vying for 2 x finals spots. Then come finals the excitement of the International flavour. Keeping Africa in their own timezone removes 3am matches.

You can see more on my thoughts and Pros & Cons by clicking here.

Thoughts?

I've already mentioned that I am a fan of this but I was just thinking about the content side of things and how to address it. Well, here's a suggestion.

Why don't we flip the windows for the NRC and Super Rugby? And the push the Test season back?

Start the year with an expanded NRC run a full 14 round H/A season plus finals. Take the break during what would traditionally be the test window before starting Super Rugby in this abridged format. After that finishes straight into the Test season with the RC and alternating inbound and outbound tours year on year.


This way. The broadcasters get more content. Everyone gets their domestic championships with all the best talent available. We maintain Super Rugby and its international nature.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
That sounds fine to me...

Soup hasn't killed club rugby, if anything most intelligent pundits suggest Soup would be better with better connection to the grass roots.

Let's stop calling a domestic Plan B the NRC. It would simply be a domestic based Australian Pro comp. if anything it MUST get better connected to the clubs.

WA, Vic and ACT, if anything are already well connected. Though Canberra would be well advised to address any residual issues from clubs that are not the Vikings.

QLD also seems OK - on the surface. Rumours break through rarely of club discontent, but the current NRC division and connection to the clubs seems workable. It would completely need acceptance, sign off and buy-in from QPR. And logical connection to rugby outside of Premier.

NSW involving NSWRU, Waratahs Ltd, SRU, SS clubs, Subbies first division etc - here is a conundrum. The current NRC solution works for a couple of SS clubs but has failed to convince SRU who have painted a target on what they see as an anathema. They really want an opportunity to at least quasi-pro at SS. God knows how that works.

If you started with a fresh slate you'd (well I'd) make the SRU to be geographically, or at least administratively spread over Sydney, each SS club then having member clubs they were responsible for - the Subbies. Ideally for the new pro domestic comp I'd look to gather together four groups of three SS clubs, with Waratahs Ltd responsible.

But idealism would never work in the confusing world of NSW rugby.
 

Spieber

Bob Loudon (25)
But by fuck its starting to build the same night Liverpool played SFC, there was an FFA cup night and its still local v local games and South Melbourne V Dandenong City


This is local V local they also do it for their National Premier League.


Half, agree that these games received strong support but I question how much of it is truly local. Dandenong is an ethnic Croatian club while SMelb is Greek. Northcote and Heidelberg are both Greek but have hatred for each other dating back to 1958 when the latter split from the former. We need non-ethnic based clubs for the local theory to stick.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
ARU should be looking at this with utter trepidation...
Europe may be poaching the best current Wallabies, but the NRL and AFL are poaching the future generation.

In 2010 the salary cap was $4.1 million, by 2019 RLPA want it to be $9.9million, or at the very minimum the NRL wants it to be $8.84 by 2018.

Also the retention of IP rights to the players will have a massive impact on the third-party luxury that rugby union currently has over the NRL.

  • The RLPA is seeking a 10 per cent salary cap discount for developing players, as well as a 10 per cent discount for those who have been at one club for eight years or more. Clubs to bear the cost;
  • The NRL wants a salary cap of $8.84 million for 2018. The RLPA is pushing for it to be $9.1 million, rising to $9.9 million by the end of the five-year CBA;
  • The RLPA wants players to own their intellectual property, including image rights. Also wants a reduction in protected sponsorships;
  • RLPA pushing for the traditional top-30 list to be replaced by a top 26, plus 14 "supplementary" players that can be called upon;
  • NRL wants rep payments to go up to $26.5 million. The RLPA wants the figure to be $34 million.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
ARU should be looking at this with utter trepidation.
Europe may be poaching the best current Wallabies, but the NRL and AFL are poaching the future generation.

In 2010 the salary cap was $4.1 million, by 2019 RLPA want it to be $9.9million, or at the very minimum the NRL wants it to be $8.84 by 2018.

Also the retention of IP rights to the players will have a massive impact on the third-party luxury that rugby union currently has over the NRL.

Just by way of one of many strategic inferences from your valuable post above:

In 2017 it can be seen to be true: if Australian rugby is not urgently reformed so as to create and execute a viable strategy to make its pro-level playing product far more attractive to sponsors and fans (TV and game attendance based), it is simply inevitable that much of our best base athletic talent in all junior rugby feeder systems will preference a career in NRL vs Union on the grounds that careers earnings can be both materially greater and probably more secure over career life span (see 'team culling' risk enter the stage).

This core economic fact was not true 10 years ago, rather the opposite in favour of Union especially if a possible Wallaby participation was factored in.

(Add on: I was both amused and further alarmed when seeing parties like Cheika talk about the (long, long overdue) National Coaching Panel and such like. The tone and how they communicate such initiatives is just totally lacking in any sense of intensity of purpose and execution urgency. What this NCP will actually do is unclear, nowhere was the dreaded 'centralisation' word mentioned (although this is essential for any decent NCP to have near-term vs a 2025-dated impact), it seemed like a light 'consulting amongst ourselves' group vs an urgent program to improve Aus rugby coaching capability fast and deeply before the whole pro layer collapses under the weight of lost fans, pervasive mediocrity and repetitively poor w-l rates.)
 

The Honey Badger

Jim Lenehan (48)
Someone please tell me how this will play out.

Is there an Extraordinary Meeting of the ARU called?

If so, when is it? And will the office holders face a vote of confidence?

Is it likely that we end up with a new ARU that will go back to Sanzaar and tell them all bets are off?
 

Strewthcobber

Andrew Slack (58)
Someone please tell me how this will play out.

Is there an Extraordinary Meeting of the ARU called?

If so, when is it? And will the office holders face a vote of confidence?

Is it likely that we end up with a new ARU that will go back to Sanzaar and tell them all bets are off?


From Wayne Smith on Thursday
There were rumours circulating yesterday that June 30 had been set down as the deadline for this whole process to be resolved. In that time, South Africa was also to have eliminated two teams so that the 2018 Super Rugby competition could go ahead with 15 teams, not 18 as at present.
Both the ARU and SANZAAR denied the existence of any deadline. Indeed, SANZAAR could possibly push this out into July or even August before it reaches the point of having to make firm arrangements — particularly airline bookings and hotel accommodation — for next year.
 

lou75

Ron Walden (29)
Someone please tell me how this will play out.

Is there an Extraordinary Meeting of the ARU called?

If so, when is it? And will the office holders face a vote of confidence?

Is it likely that we end up with a new ARU that will go back to Sanzaar and tell them all bets are off?

It is a General Meeting.
The ARU are duty bound to issue the 21 day notice now the RUPA & VRU have requested one. This should have been issued 'as soon as possible'. The ARU were playing footsies, hoping to call a bullshit meeting last week where by they could pull the wool over member unions eyes and then wrap it up without resolution. They do not want a General Meeting (IMO) as their position can be voted on. They are in breach of their own constitution at the moment
 

half

Alan Cameron (40)
Half, agree that these games received strong support but I question how much of it is truly local. Dandenong is an ethnic Croatian club while SMelb is Greek. Northcote and Heidelberg are both Greek but have hatred for each other dating back to 1958 when the latter split from the former. We need non-ethnic based clubs for the local theory to stick.

Seriously mate, you are missing the point. They have 100 teams in their National Premier League, and most are non ethnic. Even the ethnic teams realise they have to change. Keep thinking that soccer and FFA have mostly ethnic clubs and bye bye.

However the important thing is they are developing local V local and starting to build for there second division.

We can do the same

Back to your thinking of ethnic and your example of Danderenong.

Bits taken from the Herald sun. Does this look like an ethnic club.

CASEY-Dandenong A-League backers say their prospective club is “another Western Sydney Wanderers” waiting to happen.

The heads of three major councils in Melbourne’s booming south-east suburbs — Greater Dandenong, Casey and Cardinia — met for a second time last week to formalise their commitment to an A-League licence bid.

The councils will not run the club, but have been instrumental in starting the process behind the scenes, talking to potential financial backers and organisations interested in helping with its establishment.

Casey has flagged plans to build a $20m training base at Casey Fields, while Greater Dandenong Mayor Jim Memeti wants a boutique stadium built close to Dandenong train station, which is where the team’s home matches will be played.

While the south-eastern suburbs have a population base of about 1.2 million to draw on, the three councils have 32 clubs playing in their municipalities with 4200 registered players in 2016.

Prominent clubs in the area Dandenong City, Dandenong Thunder, Berwick City, Casey Comets, Springvale White Eagles and South Springvale have signalled their intention to support the bid, while it is understood the A-League push has the support of several local politicians.


They are moving A-League youth teams into there NPL, this afternoon SFC are playing Rockdale I think.

Also the owners of the A-League clubs have said along with the FFA that no ethnic clubs will be allowed into the A-League.

WE can copy this system you can bet your bottom dollar the AFL and NRL will soon copy.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Someone please tell me how this will play out.

Is there an Extraordinary Meeting of the ARU called?

If so, when is it? And will the office holders face a vote of confidence?

Is it likely that we end up with a new ARU that will go back to Sanzaar and tell them all bets are off?

THB - I have not seen an exact confirmation but my understanding is that a VRU-called EGM meeting will take place in early June some time, roughly 21 days after it was called.

(The ARU stated its disingenuously crafted 'we want to communicate sooner via just an informal meeting of parties' was cancelled for late last week for 'scheduling problems' as the reason - what a load of deceitful rubbish that obviously was; as if the WA and VIC delegates, desperately worried for their players and staff, would somehow not be able to clear their diaries for something that could aid these stakeholders understanding of the status of the culling process.)

My understanding is that a 'vote of no confidence in the ARU and/or its directors' will certainly not be put automatically at the intended EGM but only if the delegates to it are dissatisfied enough after the ARU updates in that EGM its 'decisive' Super team culling process.

I can almost guarantee that the EGM will result in little but some kind of confused and confusing 'communication' exercise - with the ARU mostly teetering on a little stool behind its lawyers' skirts - and that no culling of ARU directors will be either proposed or effected. (Note: I will be delighted if am wrong about this.)

Why - well Australian rugby, in any approach to real institutional reform, is almost always blighted by a permanent culture of and predisposition to what might best be termed: WIMPERVESENCE.

Namely a capacity for flailing hands, murmurs to the media, hand-wringing 'fears for the code', leaks that 'something must done', side attacks on one or two issues, and then.............when the moment comes to mount a serious, well-organised, determined public attack on a State RU or ARU or clearly needs to in order achieve real not cosmetic change...................nothing actually happens as a deep, well-evidenced pattern of deference and non-confrontation to elites within Australian rugby as a whole takes hold and everyone finally, post WIMPERVESENCE, just says 'we have decided it is best to work together constructively in the interests of the code overall'.

WIMPERVESENCE being one the major reasons the whole institutional framework for running Australian rugby is in the obvious mess of dysfunctionality that it is.
 

Strewthcobber

Andrew Slack (58)
It is a General Meeting.
The ARU are duty bound to issue the 21 day notice now the RUPA & VRU have requested one. This should have been issued 'as soon as possible'. The ARU were playing footsies, hoping to call a bullshit meeting last week where by they could pull the wool over member unions eyes and then wrap it up without resolution. They do not want a General Meeting (IMO) as their position can be voted on. They are in breach of their own constitution at the moment
Statuatory requirement from the Corp act.....
The directors must call the meeting within 21 days after the request is given to the company. The meeting is to be held not later than 2 months after the request is given to the company.




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