Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[Rugbynutter39]

The current rule whereby we only select foreign based players who have played over 60 tests is unpopular enough.

Anyway, I can't imagine the ARU will jump to change the policy until they have some clarity on what the new competition is, when it will be played, and who is playing.

But the point is once they have that clarity, common sense should dictate if wa is not represented in Super Rugby joins a new Asian rugby competition and the force play out of Perth that they should be open to changing the rules to allow them to be eligible for the wallabies. This is about allowing eligibility for oz based players. Come on bh your an intelligent man surely you see the need for this more open mindset as having oz teams based in oz involved in an Asian competition involving teams from non sanzaar Super Rugby regions could only be a good thing for oz rugby. Yes we need to confirm teams involved but would be crazy and near sighted for the ARU not to be open to considering rule changes for wallaby selection for oz based players irrespective if playing in super rugby or Asian based league.




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[Braveheart81]

The ARU are going to lose big time, how can a organisation running at break even at best compete with a current dividend stream of 450m.
TF has every intention of making this comp pay its way, which will kill the ARU whether TF is trying to or not.

If over time Forrest creates a league where Australian players can be paid handsomely to play in Australia it will be outstanding for Australian rugby.

One of our biggest issues is keeping our players in Australia and competing with overseas money.

If we can get into a position where professional clubs are paying the players and aren't ultimately a liability for the ARU it will be a good thing.

I don't see how there is a bad outcome for Australian rugby or the ARU if people are spending money on rugby in Australia.

 

[Braveheart81]

But the point is once they have that clarity, common sense should dictate if wa is not represented in Super Rugby joins a new Asian rugby competition and the force play out of Perth that they should be open to changing the rules to allow them to be eligible for the wallabies. This is about allowing eligibility for oz based players. Come on bh your an intelligent man surely you see the need for this more open mindset as having oz teams based in oz involved in an Asian competition involving teams from non sanzaar Super Rugby regions could only be a good thing for oz rugby. Yes we need to confirm teams involved but would be crazy and near sighted for the ARU not to be open to considering rule changes for wallaby selection for oz based players irrespective if playing in super rugby or Asian based league.

Reread my post.


I never said they wouldn't do it. I said there wouldn't be an announcement before the details of this competition are even known.

Of course the ARU should allow players based in Australia to be eligible for the Wallabies.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Hey, there is room for expansion in our fancy new rebel league.

In many ways would be good if could have Super Rugby and this new comp with oz teams in both as would provide more pathways and opportunities for oz rugby players. To my mind that would be the best result.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Hard to call the Japan domestic comp as being equal to Super Rugby. This didn't stop Japan knocking over the Springboks at the RWC.



Still, at this stage it is not so much about how many Twiggy Rugby players get picked for the WBs. More that the CAN be picked for the WBs.

Well Dan54 Currie Cup and Mitre 10 are second tier professional comps that do alright. No reason this Asian league could not do the same as if run as decent second tier comp with broadcasters on board could do ok like Mitre 10 and Currie Cup. As offers new markets to broadcasters, so I could see the appeal and to be honest probably better to initially position as second tier comp.

 

[Warpath]

I won't be surprised if they add 2 or even 3 NRC teams in the new Rebel League (hilarious name when you consider that the final decision by the ARU was between the Force or the Rebels), only a handful of NRC talents get in Aussie super rugby teams, its a rarity for an NRC player to get picked by a NZ Super rugby team though Mitre10 players get picked by Australia super rugby teams all the time, current examples, both the 10 for Rebels and Brumbies and Speight went on to become a wallaby . not much in the future for NRC players, as they are way down the ladder for an international callup, France and Uk and even Japan start looking like viable options but if they can create a new competition where these players actually get noticed MORE instead of just 8ish games a year in the NRC, it could propel them to a better contract even if its not for an australian super rugby team.

The Only 2 threat ARU faces is from itself and NRL..it can't do much about NRL pillaging rugby union talent but it can try to support a rebels competition where they will be able to find more talent for their weak and pathetic australian super rugby teams.

 

[kiap]

. No reason this Asian league could not do the same as if run as decent second tier comp with broadcasters on board

And if it runs at the same time as Soup, we could have a full season available for the teams within.

That could then be better than M10 and CC which are stuck in the after window, with NRC.

 

[Froggy]

I really hope this competition gets off the ground for a whole number of reasons, however I do retain a certain element of skepticism.

I guess I've seen too many successful business people come in as 'saviours', particularly when it occurs on the back of a lot of emotion, only for the whole thing to either collapse or just fizzle out. I know TF is a hugely successful man, but he has had his own issues in the past, as anyone who followed his earlier career would remember, and he does love publicity.

I know I will be howled down for this by Force supporters and others, but while I was vehemently opposed to cutting the Force, and agree that the ARU's performance has been worse than abysmal, I have survived a lot of years in small business by retaining a certain amount of skepticism. I remember my late father telling me 'if it seems too good to be true, it probably is'.

Anyway, it has my support, I empathise with Force fans and players and completely understand their enthusiasm for this, but I have my reservations.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I really hope this competition gets off the ground for a whole number of reasons, however I do retain a certain element of skepticism.



I guess I've seen too many successful business people come in as 'saviours', particularly when it occurs on the back of a lot of emotion, only for the whole thing to either collapse or just fizzle out. I know TF is a hugely successful man, but he has had his own issues in the past, as anyone who followed his earlier career would remember, and he does love publicity.



I know I will be howled down for this by Force supporters and others, but while I was vehemently opposed to cutting the Force, and agree that the ARU's performance has been worse than abysmal, I have survived a lot of years in small business by retaining a certain amount of skepticism. I remember my late father telling me 'if it seems too good to be true, it probably is'.



Anyway, it has my support, I empathise with Force fans and players and completely understand their enthusiasm for this, but I have my reservations.

I think we all realise this is a risky venture which is why good to have philanthropists like TF (and other financial backers) backing this as they can afford the risk if this new comp does not work out whilst ARU most definitely could not afford the risk.

He seems to have brought together an experienced team and seems to have or making the right connections in Asia so I truly hope this is a successful venture. I certainly could see broadcasters willing to take perhaps an initial punt on this as would open new markets which would attract broadcasters. Still think best positioned as second tier comp but will wait and see what unfolds.

 

[Tex]

I really hope this competition gets off the ground for a whole number of reasons, however I do retain a certain element of skepticism.

I guess I've seen too many successful business people come in as 'saviours', particularly when it occurs on the back of a lot of emotion, only for the whole thing to either collapse or just fizzle out. I know TF is a hugely successful man, but he has had his own issues in the past, as anyone who followed his earlier career would remember, and he does love publicity.

I know I will be howled down for this by Force supporters and others, but while I was vehemently opposed to cutting the Force, and agree that the ARU's performance has been worse than abysmal, I have survived a lot of years in small business by retaining a certain amount of skepticism. I remember my late father telling me 'if it seems too good to be true, it probably is'.

Anyway, it has my support, I empathise with Force fans and players and completely understand their enthusiasm for this, but I have my reservations.

Harold Mitchell comes to mind.

 

[Slim 293]

Harold Mitchell comes to mind.

As mentioned in the past........... he wasn't interested in the game, just the networking.

 

[Tex]

As mentioned in the past..... he wasn't interested in the game, just the networking.

Foundation problem remains. Wealthy businessmen using sport as a means to an end. The tough thing to swallow is the amount of emotion from the fans that get wrapped up in the affair, particularly when the dividends/networks/PR/? aren't free-flowing...

 

[Killer]

Harold Mitchell comes to mind.

with all due respect, and I get your point but there is no similarity.
TF has a huge passion for rugby, he has put his reputation on the line publicly and his current annual dividend is double Harold's net worth.

 

[Braveheart81]

The big difference between Mitchell and Forrest is their wealth. Forrest can afford to finance something for a long time and absorb massive costs if he so desires.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Is there any precedent for a sporting competition being financially underwritten by one wealthy benefactor as a "vanity project" for a significant amount of time?

The others I can think of were doing it to capture broadcast rights etc

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[Killer]

Is there any precedent for a sporting competition being financially underwritten by one wealthy benefactor as a "vanity project" for a significant amount of time?

The others I can think of were doing it to capture broadcast rights etc

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you probably don't remember or know but TF had a mutually beneficial relationship with China, they helped pay for his mine and his mine helped to undermine the iron ore cartel for China.
Now TF needs a comp and the Chinese want good rugby players (see Jack Ma) again we have this mutually beneficial arrangement between TF and the Chinese. They understand and trust each other.
This is of course assuming the Chinese are involved?

 

[Dan54]

Anyway Killer, I hope something comes of it, though I not convinced it will work or even it will not cause a lot of arguments. You can be assured that if things aren't run as TF wants he will take his toys and leave the room, and I not entirely convinced one man should have the say on how any comp runs. I perhaps keep seeing what happened in soccer when Clive Palmer stepped in too support Gold Coast soccer club, as soon as someone said no we don't change the whole game because you put money in he pulled money! We see how clubs etc in France are run by billionaires a with a bit more money than TF, they decide who does the coaching,playing etc, not any club committee, and take my word for it they pour huge amounts of money in, and the TV deals over there dwarf anything that we could hope to see for a comp probably not featuring any top drawer players.
Still I hope something sensible comes from it, and I just don't want to see anyone build up too many expectations, as the fall can hurt!

 

[Killer]

Anyway Killer, I hope something comes of it, though I not convinced it will work or even it will not cause a lot of arguments. You can be assured that if things aren't run as TF wants he will take his toys and leave the room, and I not entirely convinced one man should have the say on how any comp runs. I perhaps keep seeing what happened in soccer when Clive Palmer stepped in too support Gold Coast soccer club, as soon as someone said no we don't change the whole game because you put money in he pulled money! We see how clubs etc in France are run by billionaires a with a bit more money than TF, they decide who does the coaching,playing etc, not any club committee, and take my word for it they pour huge amounts of money in, and the TV deals over there dwarf anything that we could hope to see for a comp probably not featuring any top drawer players.
Still I hope something sensible comes from it, and I just don't want to see anyone build up too many expectations, as the fall can hurt!

the way I see it this is/will be the new super comp, the aru sanzaar model will die.
New teams will be added when it makes sense.
Palmer is an idiot, no comparison, his net worth is not even a tenth of TF's.
TF's whole thing from what I see is sustainability and that means without his input.
I don't think there are any French Billionaires in Rugby? certainly not 6.8 billionaires.
See above, but he will work with like minded people in China and elsewhere to set it all up including broadcast arrangements then stand back.
The good thing is he will probably always be there as a backstop to the Aus teams if they are getting bullied or whatever.

 

[dru]

I don't think there is anything at all wrong with having a healthy skepticism here. It's just that I am so over ARU (cant avoid NSWRU/QRU with that) that I've got my fingers crossed.

And so far what we are seeing from Twiggy's team is holding off the skepticism.

 

[Killer]

the way I see it this is/will be the new super comp, the aru sanzaar model will die.
New teams will be added when it makes sense.
Palmer is an idiot, no comparison, his net worth is not even a tenth of TF's.
TF's whole thing from what I see is sustainability and that means without his input.
I don't think there are any French Billionaires in Rugby? certainly not 6.8 billionaires.
See above, but he will work with like minded people in China and elsewhere to set it all up including broadcast arrangements then stand back.
The good thing is he will probably always be there as a backstop to the Aus teams if they are getting bullied or whatever.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rugby-rich-list-rugby-unions-5-richest-money-men/