Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[Braveheart81]

A fair number of the existing board members are close to the end of their tenures regardless in a couple of years. No doubt they won't all be there for the maximum of nine years.

I don't really see why they'd be overly worried about another Senate committee. They don't have to prove it was an impartial decision. It clearly wasn't.

It will be good for RA when Clyne moves on because they'll be able to get some clear air and hopefully put a lot of bad blood that people associate specifically with him behind them.

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[dru]

Someone else is spending more money on rugby in WA than RA ever could.

I would think RA would be pretty happy with what is happening with the World Series Rugby games and the players that have been given contracts there.

What exactly do you think Eastwood are going to do?

Would you like to expand on this? The ARU created this situation and utterly had the chance for this exact thing to be happening withing the Super tent. They didn't even have to cut but to have the strength to tell NZRU "we tried, things have changed".

If RA is happy now, they are 12 month too late. Let's hope they starting getting more on the ball.

 

[Braveheart81]

They were convinced they were risking insolvency if they didn't cut a team.

Rather than rugby dying in that location the community has rallied strongly and more funding has come to fruition.

Unless you think they cut a team because they wanted to spite WA then it's hard to see why they'd be upset that rugby is happening in Perth.

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[stoff]

hhhhmmmmm aaarrrr gggg arrrrr.

Me hearties?


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[dru]

They were convinced they were risking insolvency if they didn't cut a team.

Rather than rugby dying in that location the community has rallied strongly and more funding has come to fruition.

Unless you think they cut a team because they wanted to spite WA then it's hard to see why they'd be upset that rugby is happening in Perth.

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[EDIT: Sometimes i need to self moderate.] Disingenuous. Somewhere between their initial (erroneous) position, and the point where the Twig put an offer of cash on the table - that argument dies.

Obliterated.

And this happened well before the chop.

 

[chibimatty]

I hate to be "THAT WA GUY" but there are some reasons why the folk over here were concerned that there really was some conspiracy to kill off WA rugby. These are some of the reasons, which are unrelated to the culling of the Force from Super Rugby, but they happened and therefore fuelled speculation:

-No WA team in the 2017 national womens sevens comp, despite Tasmania and South Australia being involved.
-WA's "Barbarians" 10s team being removed from the Brisbane Tens.
-The Force Women being removed from the Brisbane Tens also, despite there only being four other teams involved.
-The treatment of kids wearing the "wrong" jerseys at the AUS-Bok test in Perth last year. (Force jerseys instead of Wallabies' jerseys)
-The removal of the then-premiers, the Perth Spirit, from the NRC, only to be re-included because the court case dragged on.
-No test match in Perth in 2018.
-No Irish tour match in Perth in 2018.

Now I am sure that somewhere along the line, someone will be able to give reasons/excuses/explanations for all of the above; but at the very least, you can see why there is a large amount of vitriol coming from this side of the country, and why a conspiracy theory to kill WA Rugby off, not just the Force, would be doing the rounds; as the above examples were unrelated to Super Rugby at all.

 

[Braveheart81]

[EDIT: Sometimes i need to self moderate.] Disingenuous. Somewhere between their initial (erroneous) position, and the point where the Twig put an offer of cash on the table - that argument dies.

Obliterated.

And this happened well before the chop.

The offer of money was only ever to the ARF (which would have come with a tax deduction) and couldn't be used by RA to fund their ongoing expenses.



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[dru]

The offer of money was only ever to the ARF (which would have come with a tax deduction) and couldn't be used by RA to fund their ongoing expenses.



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Sorry BH, I'm not with this. What were the immediate savings with cutting a team? Surely nothing but not spending on that team. Difference?

 

[dru]

there is a large amount of vitriol coming from this side of the country

I understand the vitriol completely. Don't think I am the only one in the east either.

 

[RugbyReg]

I hate to be "THAT WA GUY" but there are some reasons why the folk over here were concerned that there really was some conspiracy to kill off WA rugby. These are some of the reasons, which are unrelated to the culling of the Force from Super Rugby, but they happened and therefore fuelled speculation:

Now I am sure that somewhere along the line, someone will be able to give reasons/excuses/explanations for all of the above; but at the very least, you can see why there is a large amount of vitriol coming from this side of the country, and why a conspiracy theory to kill WA Rugby off, not just the Force, would be doing the rounds; as the above examples were unrelated to Super Rugby at all.

Allow me:

-No WA team in the 2017 national womens sevens comp, despite Tasmania and South Australia being involved. DID THEY SUBMIT A PROPOSAL TO BE IN IT? NOTE THAT WILL BE IN NEXT YEAR.
-WA's "Barbarians" 10s team being removed from the Brisbane Tens. NOT AN ARU CALL. BLAME DUCCO EVENTS>
-The Force Women being removed from the Brisbane Tens also, despite there only being four other teams involved. NOT AN ARU CALL. BLAME DUCCO EVENTS>
-The treatment of kids wearing the "wrong" jerseys at the AUS-Bok test in Perth last year. (Force jerseys instead of Wallabies' jerseys). WAS AN ARU EVENT. WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN EVERY STATE
-The removal of the then-premiers, the Perth Spirit, from the NRC, only to be re-included because the court case dragged on. WERE THEY EVER EXCLUDED? THIS WAS NEVER STATED FROM MY MEMORY. IN FACT THE WAY I REMEMBER IT WAS MADE CLEAR THEY WOULD REMAIN IN
-No test match in Perth in 2018. YOUR ONLY LEGIT ARGUMENT HERE ALTHOUGH I COULD UNDERSTAND THE DECISION GIVEN THE NEGATIVE EMOTIONS.
-No Irish tour match in Perth in 2018. BLAME IRELAND. THEY DIDN'T WANT A TOUR MATCH.

but at the very least, you can see why there is a large amount of vitriol coming from this side of the country,

because emotion gets in the way of common sense some times. Why on god's earth would RA want to kill off rugby in WA? I am yet to hear an argument why. Plenty of arguments on why they axed the Force, a decision I don't agree with mind you, but the talks of a greater conspiracy falls into the same trap as most conspiracies around the globe. Common sense (Occam's razor and all that) flies out the window.

 

[chibimatty]

because emotion gets in the way of common sense some times.

Indeed, thank you for reinforcing my point.

 

[Aurelius]

I don't think it's far-fetched to suggest that at the very least RA doesn't care what happens to rugby in WA. There was no attempt at all to provide the Force or the WA rugby community with a soft landing unlike that of the cut South African sides, and now that WSR is up and running it seems that RA are more concerned about being shown up by a superior organisation than helping it succeed.

 

[wamberal]

There's not much point expressing the alternative view, but I will do so anyway.


Firstly, of course RA cares about what happens to rugby in WA. Why on earth wouldn't they? It is part of their remit to care, and it is in the best interests of the game nationally that rugby thrives everywhere in this nation.

Secondly, there is no competition between the national governing body on the one hand, and Twiggy's venture on the other. If Twiggy wants to promote rugby in WA, he needs to have the cooperation of the national governing body - otherwise he runs the risk of promote something that is not actually rugby at all.

Being "shown up" by somebody with very deep pockets is one way of putting it. Does not sound very constructive to me. Nor does it sound very constructive when the word "superior" is used as a cudgel.

 

[Rebels3]

I don't think it's far-fetched to suggest that at the very least RA doesn't care what happens to rugby in WA. There was no attempt at all to provide the Force or the WA rugby community with a soft landing unlike that of the cut South African sides, and now that WSR is up and running it seems that RA are more concerned about being shown up by a superior organisation than helping it succeed.

A soft landing like SAF!! You cannot possibly compare the two situations, one country is essentially in the same time zone and dramatically closer in distance to other professional competitions, the other is the most isolated city in the world (Cape Town to Dublin is roughly the same distance as Perth to Auckland). The only competitions 'remotely' close are the Top League (Japan) and if people knew anything about that competition would no it would never happen, they won't even entertain the idea of Hong Kong joining them or the NPC, which i for one would love to see but NZ has 0 interest.

Fingers crossed twiggys competition gets up and running, looking forward to supporting the force in that, but that's the only possible way competition was going to happen.

 

[Aurelius]

A soft landing like SAF!! You cannot possibly compare the two situations, one country is essentially in the same time zone and dramatically closer in distance to other professional competitions, the other is the most isolated city in the world (Cape Town to Dublin is roughly the same distance as Perth to Auckland). The only competitions 'remotely' close are the Top League (Japan) and if people knew anything about that competition would no it would never happen, they won't even entertain the idea of Hong Kong joining them or the NPC, which i for one would love to see but NZ has 0 interest.

Fingers crossed twiggys competition gets up and running, looking forward to supporting the force in that, but that's the only possible way competition was going to happen.

The point is, they didn't even try. There was no hint of any attempt to even make a plan to keep rugby alive in WA, and at no stage did they fight for us (or for keeping five teams at all) when SANZAAR decided they wanted to go back to 15 teams.

Quite the contrary, in fact. As soon as that plan was broached, RA decided that WA was disposable and deliberately maneuvered RugbyWA so they could cut the Force with as little fuss as possible. And when they eventually succeeded, the only sentiment of regret they expressed was that they were sorry it took as long to cut us as it did, and they hoped WA rugby fans wouldn't go sour on the game.

Hence my contention that they simply don't care about WA rugby. Out of sight, out of mind and all that. Given their conduct over the last couple of years, as I said it's far from a far-fetched proposition.

 

[chibimatty]

The point is, they didn't even try. There was no hint of any attempt to even make a plan to keep rugby alive in WA, and at no stage did they fight for us (or for keeping five teams at all) when SANZAAR decided they wanted to go back to 15 teams.

Quite the contrary, in fact. As soon as that plan was broached, RA decided that WA was disposable and deliberately maneuvered RugbyWA so they could cut the Force with as little fuss as possible. And when they eventually succeeded, the only sentiment of regret they expressed was that they were sorry it took as long to cut us as it did, and they hoped WA rugby fans wouldn't go sour on the game.

Hence my contention that they simply don't care about WA rugby. Out of sight, out of mind and all that. Given their conduct over the last couple of years, as I said it's far from a far-fetched proposition.

That's right, at least that's how it looks to a lot of people here. Add that to the situations cited in my post, and one can begin to understand why people in the west are so vitriolic.

 

[Forcefield]

The ARU or RA or whatever doesn't care. If they did they would make an effort to mend fences. Little gestures like sending over Wallabies coaches or asstant coaches for a bit of collaboration. Or planning/announcing it. Maybe it is offering other kinds of support. They see WSR as a threat to their power base. They are under pressure from Shute Shield clubs who naively think WSR will affect their competition and prevent them from going back to their glory days. I'd bet my right nut (the good one) that they'd prefer to see us fail.

 

[wamberal]

None of us knows what is happening behind closed doors, what sort of support is being offered, or not offered.

Getting the Wallaby coaching staff to Perth in the middle of the international season is a bit of an ask, I would have thought? The priority at the moment is beating the Irish, and preparing for the Rugby Championship, and the Bledisoe.

Shute Shield clubs exert very little real power in the game, except in the negative sense of refusing to participate or support activities that they do not believe are in their best interests. Most of them are fully occupied trying to grow the game in their own districts, I doubt that too many of them are concerned about what Twiggy does or does not do, other than the possibility of losing players to WSR.

On balance, I believe that most true rugby supporters do want to see some form of success emanating from Perth, provided that success leads to real growth for the game here. For real growth to happen, everybody has to accept that the game in Australia is governed by RA, under the auspices of WR (World Rugby).

 

[lou75]

For real growth to happen, everybody has to accept that the game in Australia is governed by RA, under the auspices of WR (World Rugby).

I'm not sure that I agree with this statement at all. Being governed by RA has nothing to do with real growth - in fact, it has everything to do with real shrinkage.

 

[Forcefield]

None of us knows what is happening behind closed doors, what sort of support is being offered, or not offered.

Getting the Wallaby coaching staff to Perth in the middle of the international season is a bit of an ask, I would have thought? The priority at the moment is beating the Irish, and preparing for the Rugby Championship, and the Bledisoe.

Shute Shield clubs exert very little real power in the game, except in the negative sense of refusing to participate or support activities that they do not believe are in their best interests. Most of them are fully occupied trying to grow the game in their own districts, I doubt that too many of them are concerned about what Twiggy does or does not do, other than the possibility of losing players to WSR.

On balance, I believe that most true rugby supporters do want to see some form of success emanating from Perth, provided that success leads to real growth for the game here. For real growth to happen, everybody has to accept that the game in Australia is governed by RA, under the auspices of WR (World Rugby).

I am not talking about sending someone over now. I'm talking about back when we played Fiji/Tonga. Send Larkham over for two days. Maybe stuff is happening behind closed doors- I doubt it- surely RA would be reporting on any significant offers of support in order to promote the narrative that they aren't a pack of assholes.