Why is Tom Carter unpickable?

[cyclopath]

Oh no, please not 10 more pages of this!

You can always avoid clicking on the thread.

 

[TOCC]

I still think that at test level a player needs to more of a all-rounder then purely just a defensive/crash-ball type player.... Its why A.Fainga'a will struggle to add to his test cap figure and the reason why T.Carter will probably never achieve one.

Yes i agree Bruce Ross, defence is critical to a inside centres attributes, but in the face of the vastly improved test level defence, you also need a player who can contribute more in attack then just a crash ball. Or alternatively, he performs the crashball to the level of someone like Fruean/SBW or the Mortlock of old.

I just feel that at test level, T.Carter will be exposed like Gerrard was when he was run down by south african forwards a few years ago. Line breaks are hard enough to come by at test level, in the event you do get one, you want a player who can capitalise on the linebreak.

 

[chequebalance]

I started this thread to question the common perception that "Tom Carter is not worthy of any consideration for the national squad." Note that I referred to the national squad, not the run-on team nor even the match day squad.

I wouldn't pick a player in my squad who I think wouldn't be pushing for a run-on or at least a match day squad. You want the players that are there to know that one slip up and there is another guy ready to take his spot. Saying that your comments did say worthy of consideration, which i think he is. I also considered mowing the lawn today but declined.

 

[Athilnaur]

Having done a similar stats analysis to Bruce last week, In coming to this board two things, well three things struck me;

1 - until Bruce posted these stats TC was not taken seriously
2 - there is a lot more focus on offense than defense, particularly with general opinion, 'gut feel'
3 - there is a lot of Tah haters

I am no expert compared to the obvious talent here, but I have to say in my very limited opinion TC should be attributed with a significant portion of the credit for the success the Tahs did get this year. It is also my opinion he has shown leadership qualities. His drive and passion are obvious.

And I very much wonder if a hard running player who can straighten lines and defends with as much commitment as that might not prove to be an ideal 12 to Quade's 10 in the face of a large number of teams who will be tearing thru QC (Quade Cooper) every chance they get.

But could he link well with QC (Quade Cooper)?

Seems to me Gits, for all his talent and drive, struggles to do this. And as we move into the slog that is RWC a player with grade a defense may prove indispensable.

My 2 cents

 

[Gnostic]

One massive thing I have been very happy to see Carter remove from his game has been the stupid little niggly push and shove matches he got in, in nearly every game. He is a solid tradesman like centre. End of story. He rarely passes and those passes are generally short offloads, the ball achieved from his carries tends to be slow in presentation (though this may well have been caused by the slowness of Burgess to the Ruck in most games). I said last year and again this year that he is a limitting feature of the backline in terms of creative play.

However, that said if he very good attributes are combined with a complimentary player he could be a very good asset at Super Level. Pairing him with Cross, regardless of how many injuries there was just made it plain that the only way the wingers would get the ball was if Beale kicked it to them.

 

[Jnor]

Having done a similar stats analysis to Bruce last week, In coming to this board two things, well three things struck me;

1 - until Bruce posted these stats TC was not taken seriously
2 - there is a lot more focus on defense than offense, particularly with general opinion, 'gut feel'
3 - there is a lot of Tah haters

I am no expert compared to the obvious talent here, but I have to say in my very limited opinion TC should be attributed with a significant portion of the credit for the success the Tahs did get this year. It is also my opinion he has shown leadership qualities. His drive and passion are obvious.

And I very much wonder if a hard running player who can straighten lines and defends with as much commitment as that might not prove to be an ideal 12 to Quade's 10 in the face of a large number of teams who will be tearing thru QC (Quade Cooper) every chance they get.

But could he link well with QC (Quade Cooper)?

Seems to me Gits, for all his talent and drive, struggles to do this. And as we move into the slog that is RWC a player with grade a defense may prove indispensable.

My 2 cents

Good first post, just to add on that I noticed it was TC giving the talk to the team still on the field at the end of the game on friday. I don't think there's much doubt he is a solid part of the 'leadership group' at the Tahs, and seems to perform the role pretty well.

 

[tigerland12]

I still think that at test level a player needs to more of a all-rounder then purely just a defensive/crash-ball type player.... Its why A.Fainga'a will struggle to add to his test cap figure and the reason why T.Carter will probably never achieve one.

Anthony Fainga'a WILL add more test caps, and his connection with Quade Cooper will be one of the main reasons he will over someone like Carter.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

This analysis makes one thing clear; Tom Carter is the Australian Olivier. On that basis we should not consider him for higher honours

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Laurence or Wynand?

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Laurence or Wynand?

I was referring to wynard. Solid super rugby player, sorely lacking when tried for higher honours

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I know mate, I was just having a lend of you

 

[waratahjesus]

I have loved Tom Carter for years as many will attest to. I think it's a shame that he hasn't been tried at at least aus a level. I often refer to him as "the last honest footballer" as he has never let himself or the team down, he gives you everything every game. Every year when someone lines up a team head to head they draw a line between Carter And his opposite and have a laugh and every year, I was gonna say Carter steps up, but he doesn't, he outshines is the better term.

I've never believed he is the greatest footballer of all time, but if the tahs had 14 more Tom carters out on the field they wouldn't need wallabies. people can laugh, qoute stats, say this and that, but if you change the question to "if Tom Carter ran out for the wallabies would he let anyone down" the answer would be no, and that is why I believe the term unpickable shouldn't apply, and if it does at any level for any player it only goes to show that the wallabies will never be number one in the world again

 

[cyclopath]

Anthony Fainga'a WILL add more test caps, and his connection with Quade Cooper will be one of the main reasons he will over someone like Carter.

You know, people keep saying that, but why? Wykes plays well with Sharpe, should he get a leg up because of it? Must we pick Pocock, Hodgson and McCalman because they combine so well in Perth? Baxter packs a good scrum with TPN and Robinson, yet many would never consider him an option for Tests anymore. Do they have a psychic connection? Are they both Aquarians? I really can't see why it makes a big difference, when so many other players are chosen in isolation. What magical ability does Cooper bring to Fainga'a, or indeed vice versa, that no other can?

 

[tigerland12]

I understand what you're saying and you are right in a sense. But I'm saying Deans will play him once or twice at 12 or 13 before the WC. Fainga'a definatly covers a lot of Coopers defensive work which is what I meant by combination.

That being said he wouldn't be in my 22

 

[TheNextBigThing]

Baxter packs a good scrum with TPN and Robinson, yet many would never consider him an option for Tests anymore.

Poor example. I see your point but there's no question that with either Kepu or Baxter, the Waratahs pushed around almost every other pack. Al's connection with TPN and Robinson is exactly why he should be in consideration for the squad.

I see your point regarding Fainga'a though, especially seeing as tigerland12's logic would suggest that Taupai would get the 12 jersey not Fainga'a.

Fainga'a definatly covers a lot of Coopers defensive work which is what I meant by combination.

Fair point hadn't read it before I posted.

 

[cyclopath]

Poor example. I see your point but there's no question that with either Kepu or Baxter, the Waratahs pushed around almost every other pack. Al's connection with TPN and Robinson is exactly why he should be in consideration for the squad.

I see your point regarding Fainga'a though, especially seeing as tigerland12's logic would suggest that Taupai would get the 12 jersey not Fainga'a.



Fair point hadn't read it before I posted.

Why is it a poor example? We are talking about combinations, Baxter is part of one. In fact, it is a good example - someone else can do the job just as well, so it is not critical that a certain player be picked just because of a provincial association. If you stuck Carter in a Red jersey, I dare say he'd have done much the same job. Doesn't mean I want him at 12 for the Wallabies.

 

[Cutter]

TC doesn't miss many tackles, but he sometimes doesn't get in a position to make them either. Watch the Brumbies late try against the Tahs in the last round. Carter's lack of speed led to Pakalani doubting (correctly in my view) that TC would get his man. Pakalani came off his wing creating the space. Carter didn't miss the tackle, but nor did he make it.

 

[cyclopath]

TC doesn't miss many tackles, but he sometimes doesn't get in a position to make them either. Watch the Brumbies late try against the Tahs in the last round. Carter's lack of speed led to Pakalani doubting (correctly in my view) that TC would get his man. Pakalani came off his wing creating the space. Carter didn't miss the tackle, but nor did he make it.

Maybe so. But does a try after the hooter, from a team 40-odd points down really show the mettle of the defensive line over a season?

 

[Cutter]

Maybe so. But does a try after the hooter, from a team 40-odd points down really show the mettle of the defensive line over a season?

Perhaps you can re-read what I wrote and reconsider whether you need to ask the question.

 

[Groucho]

You know, people keep saying that, but why? Wykes plays well with Sharpe, should he get a leg up because of it? Must we pick Pocock, Hodgson and McCalman because they combine so well in Perth? Baxter packs a good scrum with TPN and Robinson, yet many would never consider him an option for Tests anymore. Do they have a psychic connection? Are they both Aquarians? I really can't see why it makes a big difference, when so many other players are chosen in isolation. What magical ability does Cooper bring to Fainga'a, or indeed vice versa, that no other can?

Tapuai would slot in nicely too. Then we could have Diggers on one wing, and the pace of Davies on the other. Perfect. Now who have we missed?