COVID-19 Stuff Here

[Ignoto]

Your first mistake is thinking social media is the real world, but the other option is what? not letting individuals make decisions over their lives?

Nah, they branched out from Social Media into real life a few weeks ago.

Anyway, I simply don't understand why it's such a problem being told to sit inside for a few months? Correct my logic, but cast your mind back to WW2. During air bombings, people would turn off their house lights to make it difficult for the enemy to spot a town. The collective worked together to increase the chances of more people surviving. What do you think would happen if some people didn't want to turn their lights off and wanted to listen to the radio. Their lights would be seen from the sky and the enemy would be able to use that as reference point to drop their bombs. Their home may go unharmed while their neighbors get killed and their houses destroyed.

Extend the same logic to today's situation, where one of the lights is an asymptomatic person out shopping, living their life and interact with those caring for vulnerable relatives. With that all in mind, are we really asking that much from someone?

 

[Up the Guts]

I’m not sure turning the lights off at night is really comparable to months long shelter in place orders.

 

[Aurelius]

1. The article did not say that. Stop making things up.

Fine. You got me. I made a typo. What I meant to say was that the economic value of the policy was $1.1 trillion, based on a calculation of $4.9 million per human life times 225,000 assumed lives lost.

It doesn't make it any less of a junk analysis.

2. A government (which is a currency-issuer) can afford to buy whatever is for sale in its own currency.

A sovereign government that issues its own currency cannot run out of that currency. It can buy whatever it wants within the productive capacity of an entire economy. We are nowhere near that productive capacity because so many are underpaid/underemployed.
Before you say it, that is not inflationary per se; it would be inflationary if the money was used for day to day expenditure, or if it was used to exceed the productive capacity of the economy.

Oh. My. God.

First of all, the kind of expenditure we're talking about is welfare. Welfare is day to day expenditure. Second of all, if what you're saying is remotely true, then the Zimbabwe dollar should be one of the most stable and powerful currencies in the world. The fact that it's not suggests that just printing more money - creating it out of thin air - does absolutely nothing to create wealth or manage costs for government.

If this is the kind of crap that economists are teaching now, then it's no wonder at all that the world economy's been in the shape it's in pre-pandemic.

 

[Up the Guts]

^^^
That ‘productive capacity of the economy’ line is straight from modern monetary theory which has been unanimously rejected by the mainstream economic community.

 

[fatprop]

Extend the same logic to today's situation, where one of the lights is an asymptomatic person out shopping, living their life and interact with those caring for vulnerable relatives. With that all in mind, are we really asking that much from someone?

I think someone personally taking care of vulnerable relatives should take greater care, but that has always been the case.

We have just ignored (or got used to) the somewhat lesser risks, but still very dangerous maladies, like the seasonal flu that every year take out those on the edge (it got my father but he was hanging on by a thread well before that final straw)

 

[formerflanker]

Some of the most catastrophic decisions that have been taken appear to have been made by unelected bureaucrats

Here's another controversial one.
"...we are reviewing the borders at the end of each month. I take the advice of the Chief Health Officer. It is not my decision.” (Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk)
That's the same CHO (Young) who advised Palaszczuk to shut down the schools in order to send a message about the gravity of the situation, not because she thought it was scientifically advisable.
One could logically infer the border is being kept closed for the same reason.
Young will not change any border restrictions until '2 incubation periods have passed". 28 days between assessments.
So Qld is saying medical advice over rules any economic, personal, political or societal factors.
Our unelected top public servants have been given free rein.

 

[Rob42]

Here's another controversial one.
".we are reviewing the borders at the end of each month. I take the advice of the Chief Health Officer. It is not my decision.” (Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk)
That's the same CHO (Young) who advised Palaszczuk to shut down the schools in order to send a message about the gravity of the situation, not because she thought it was scientifically advisable.
One could logically infer the border is being kept closed for the same reason.
Young will not change any border restrictions until '2 incubation periods have passed". 28 days between assessments.
So Qld is saying medical advice over rules any economic, personal, political or societal factors.
Our unelected top public servants have been given free rein.

Of course it's the Premier's decision, is she saying she can't overrule the CHO on issues around the border? It's the role of CHO to advise the Premier on the best course of action from a health point of view, just as other departments will provide their advice, and then it's the job of the elected leader of the state to make the best judgement she can, especially when there is going to be conflicting advice.

 

[Aurelius]

Here's another controversial one.
".we are reviewing the borders at the end of each month. I take the advice of the Chief Health Officer. It is not my decision.” (Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk)
That's the same CHO (Young) who advised Palaszczuk to shut down the schools in order to send a message about the gravity of the situation, not because she thought it was scientifically advisable.
One could logically infer the border is being kept closed for the same reason.
Young will not change any border restrictions until '2 incubation periods have passed". 28 days between assessments.
So Qld is saying medical advice over rules any economic, personal, political or societal factors.
Our unelected top public servants have been given free rein.

Dr. Young seems like a complete zealot. Banning Anzac Day flights? Closing schools for a publicity stunt?

(For the record WA schools have been running at around 85-90% attendance for the last week or so. So far, no problems.)

Here's another entry in the annals of overreach:

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...21-due-to-coronavirus-pandemic-ng-b881550321z

 

[Slim 293]

Our unelected top public servants have been given free rein.

This statement......... LOL.

 

[formerflanker]

Of course it's the Premier's decision, is she saying she can't overrule the CHO on issues around the border? It's the role of CHO to advise the Premier on the best course of action from a health point of view, just as other departments will provide their advice, and then it's the job of the elected leader of the state to make the best judgement she can, especially when there is going to be conflicting advice.

I agreee that it SHOULD be the Premier's decision.
But she won't make it.
Here is what she said today: Earlier on Monday Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk told ABC News that the decision to open belonged to Dr Young,

 

[formerflanker]

This statement... LOL.

And Lots of Love to you too Slim.
But a simple "like" will suffice.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Our unelected top public servants have been given free rein.

Love you lots FF (Folau Fainga'a)!

 

[fatprop]

This statement... LOL.

It works for politicians as they fear being blamed for any deaths as we open up, they will rely on the "best" advice

 

[Lindommer]

Our unelected top public servants have been given free rein.

No. Our sensible political leaders take advice from the, eminently-qualified, medical and scientific experts and make a decision. NO top public servant gets "free rein" to make decisions, premiers and prime ministers do the deciding.

 

[formerflanker]

No. Our sensible political leaders take advice from the, eminently-qualified, medical and scientific experts and make a decision. NO top public servant gets "free rein" to make decisions, premiers and prime ministers do the deciding.

Two examples refute your idealistic position.
1. South Australia's CMO made the decision to maintaining the tight quarantine measures that prevented AFL clubs from a fly in, fly out arrangement. Yes, multiple advisors and government ministers were in the discussion process, but Professor Nicola Spurrier made the decision. Not the Premier.
2. Annastacia Palaszczuk said "It's not my decision, it's based on the best medical advice" i.e. the Qld CHO tells the Premier what to do and when to re-open the border.

Yes, it would be great if the premiers and Chief Ministers took advice from all stakeholders and made the final decision. All they have done in this pandemic is to give untrammelled power to the health advisors.

 

[fatprop]

I think it is time to leave the house

 

[fatprop]

No. Our sensible political leaders take advice from the, eminently-qualified, medical and scientific experts and make a decision. NO top public servant gets "free rein" to make decisions, premiers and prime ministers do the deciding.

I see what you did there "Our sensible political leaders"

 

[formerflanker]

I see what you did there "Our sensible political leaders"

I'm slow.
Didn't see the deep layers of satire from Lindommer.
Babylon Bee worthy.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Two examples refute your idealistic position.
1. South Australia's CMO made the decision to maintaining the tight quarantine measures that prevented AFL clubs from a fly in, fly out arrangement. Yes, multiple advisors and government ministers were in the discussion process, but Professor Nicola Spurrier made the decision. Not the Premier.
2. Annastacia Palaszczuk said "It's not my decision, it's based on the best medical advice" i.e. the Qld CHO tells the Premier what to do and when to re-open the border.

Yes, it would be great if the premiers and Chief Ministers took advice from all stakeholders and made the final decision. All they have done in this pandemic is to give untrammelled power to the health advisors.

In reality FF (Folau Fainga'a), any public official making those sorts of decisions would be acting in excess of their powers and responsibilities. Any such decision would be able to be challenged in the Federal Court under Admin Law. I'll bet that the formal decision is in the Premier's fair handwriting, and may reflect the advice entirely, but would be the politician's decision.

 

[Ignoto]

Yes, it would be great if the premiers and Chief Ministers took advice from all stakeholders and made the final decision. All they have done in this pandemic is to give untrammelled power to the health advisors.

Curious FF (Folau Fainga'a), do you make any distinctions between the anger you have about the CMO's giving directions now compared to Shane Fitzsimmons during the fires?