Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rugbynutter39]

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air...nt-of-bringing-all-blacks-home-for-christmas/

Some acknowledgment RA being accomodating to try and help ABs on the home by Xmas issue. On top of the voting with nz on the issue which was defeated by SA and Argentina votes

We seem to have continually shown to be a true ANZAC partner - I only hope NZRU start equally being a respectful and collaborative partner as at this point they have shown themselves to be far from someone to have a respectful, trusting and collaborative relationship with.

Unless we see any signs of change soon - time for oz to make hard decisions to do it alone and look to creating stronger relationships with japan etc

 

[Dan54]

What a load of crock, you read in the Herald that the China Lions are going to be part of it and so are the Force? I don't believe any of that, I firmly believe the Force will be in Aus comp, or your 5 team comp won't be much, and I see absolutely no chance of a China Lions team being formed and being competitive in any way without buying an awful bloody lot of players, mainly from um ah Australia, and that won't happen. I do believe a PI team will get formed, and don't believe it will be Drua, though I can see one playing from both Auckland and Suva etc. But wouldn't imagine it would make sense to be Fijian only as the someone has pointed out already, that would go better in Aus as NZ has more of a Tongan/Samoan population, so I calling that write up BS and not as gullible as you.
As for NZ teams are financially unviable what a load of shit, they are now and there no reason to think they wouldn't be unless you are just trying to make up things! Or show me some figures otherwise.

 

[molman]

SRAotearoa didn't need a final series, why would they they had 5 teams played each other twice, why the hell do you need a finals after that? They had an incredible game called a North/South game and needed time to fit that in so they could then go on with the next comp , the ITM cup.
And you right NZRU don't have a solid plan for 2021 or 2022 as the a pandemic happening that is stopping both NZR and RA from putting finalised plans in place. Or have I missed RA's comps they got locked in?
Yes NZR do have a TV deal in place for 2021, I not sure who told you all agreements are null and void, NZR have a deal with Sky etc for rugby played in NZ etc , it doesn't actually have to be super rugby, anymore than RA's has to be super. Who told you that?

I think much of the issue Dan is more to do with how the messaging and communication has been managed through the media coupled with some of the actions - ie. soliciting the RA Super Rugby teams directly which was pretty poor as was the tone and way the NZR review/report came to light. Either the other unions are better at media relations or the NZR are just coming off a little lacking in this area atm.

My gut feeling is that at the heart of it, it isn't so much about 5 Australian teams of a particular quality but more a power play for control, with NZR seeing this as their opportunity to be in the drivers seat. I can't see how having a team in the Bay of Plenty or another team in Auckland makes any sense compared to leveraging larger markets in Australia. I mean, you'd have to think a Pacifica team in Western Sydney probably would be a better option. Australia is at a low point atm, but you'd also have to think that there is a lot more upside here in the longrun.

Honestly, I'm just finding it all a little sad.

 

[Dan54]

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air...nt-of-bringing-all-blacks-home-for-christmas/

Some acknowledgment RA being accomodating to try and help ABs on the home by Xmas issue. On top of the voting with nz on the issue which was defeated by SA and Argentina votes

We seem to have continually shown to be a true ANZAC partner - I only hope NZRU start equally being a respectful and collaborative partner as at this point they have shown themselves to be far from someone to have a respectful, trusting and collaborative relationship with.

Unless we see any signs of change soon - time for oz to make hard decisions to do it alone and look to creating stronger relationships with japan etc

I agree RN, NZR should sort themselves out with that shit, but still doesn't make any of these other posts anymore honest or truthful.

Man this is getting hard, I been having a beer after golf today, and been the one standing up for RA from all the rubbish from a few leaguies, now I gotta come in here and calm you buggers down etc on NZR. No wonder I so tired!

 

[Derpus]

What a load of crock, you read in the Herald that the China Lions are going to be part of it and so are the Force? I don't believe any of that, I firmly believe the Force will be in Aus comp, or your 5 team comp won't be much, and I see absolutely no chance of a China Lions team being formed and being competitive in any way without buying an awful bloody lot of players, mainly from um ah Australia, and that won't happen. I do believe a PI team will get formed, and don't believe it will be Drua, though I can see one playing from both Auckland and Suva etc. But wouldn't imagine it would make sense to be Fijian only as the someone has pointed out already, that would go better in Aus as NZ has more of a Tongan/Samoan population, so I calling that write up BS and not as gullible as you.
As for NZ teams are financially unviable what a load of shit, they are now and there no reason to think they wouldn't be unless you are just trying to make up things! Or show me some figures otherwise.

Well they have at the very least officially reported that they will lock in an 8 team comp for 2022. So who are these mystery teams gunna be? The general hypocrisy of slagging on the Force for 10 years only to add three inferior teams into your own hypothetical comp stands.

I mean, fine, don't believe it. But if you just refute everything that is reported every single time it doesn't really leave us with much to discuss.

'Hey look at this fucked thing' - 'can't be real bro your argument is irrelevant'. Alright man.

As to the finances - NZRU's own report said a standalone competition was not viable. How could a competition not be financially viable but the teams are? does not compute.

 

[Dan54]

I think much of the issue Dan is more to do with how the messaging and communication has been managed through the media coupled with some of the actions - ie. soliciting the RA Super Rugby teams directly which was pretty poor as was the tone and way the NZR review/report came to light. Either the other unions are better at media relations or the NZR are just coming off a little lacking in this area atm.

My gut feeling is that at the heart of it, it isn't so much about 5 Australian teams of a particular quality but more a power play for control, with NZR seeing this as their opportunity to be in the drivers seat. I can't see how having a team in the Bay of Plenty or another team in Auckland makes any sense compared to leveraging larger markets in Australia. I mean, you'd have to think a Pacifica team in Western Sydney probably would be a better option. Australia is at a low point atm, but you'd also have to think that there is a lot more upside here in the longrun.

Honestly, I'm just finding it all a little sad.

Mate I don't believe there is a team being considered for BOP, does anyone really think Twiggy is going to do that? I agree NZR handled things badly, but you know before they actually came up with the comp they wanted set up and run (by an outside board) there was none on the table from anyone. Oh and Aus only had 4 teams when that report was written. And most of the things I read in here and papers is not in anyway what I heard Robinson say in first release, I nave heard anyone from NZR say Aus should only have 2 teams etc, only that they PREFERRED a 8-10 comp with a PI team, and they thought every team should be financially viable and add something to the comp!

 

[Adam84]

Yes NZR do have a TV deal in place for 2021, I not sure who told you all agreements are null and void, NZR have a deal with Sky etc for rugby played in NZ etc , it doesn't actually have to be super rugby, anymore than RA's has to be super. Who told you that?

SKY agreed to a deal with NZRU and SANZAAR for Super a Rugby and TRC.
If NZRU can’t fulfill the terms of that contract and deliver the content that SkyTV agreed to pay for, then that contract can be terminated by the broadcaster, it’s exactly why all the broadcast contracts for AFL/NRL went back to negotiations, because the sports couldn’t deliver the content as previously agreed and the broadcasters demanded a reduced feed.

If NZRU can’t deliver a content which Sky believes is equal value to what was previously agreed, then they are in the position to force a renegotiation and demand a lesser fee. Even Ch7 is demanding a lesser contract for the BBL, it’s the same tournament but the content has changed due to covid. .

Broadcast contracts for 2021 are worthless as they can’t derived the content they agreed to, it’s not a matter of if Sky will demand a renegotiation of the price, it’s a matter of when. They’ll probably wait to see what NZRU can actually put together for 2021 and assess the reduced value then

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think much of the issue Dan is more to do with how the messaging and communication has been managed through the media coupled with some of the actions - ie. soliciting the RA Super Rugby teams directly which was pretty poor as was the tone and way the NZR review/report came to light. Either the other unions are better at media relations or the NZR are just coming off a little lacking in this area atm.

My gut feeling is that at the heart of it, it isn't so much about 5 Australian teams of a particular quality but more a power play for control, with NZR seeing this as their opportunity to be in the drivers seat. I can't see how having a team in the Bay of Plenty or another team in Auckland makes any sense compared to leveraging larger markets in Australia. I mean, you'd have to think a Pacifica team in Western Sydney probably would be a better option. Australia is at a low point atm, but you'd also have to think that there is a lot more upside here in the longrun.

Honestly, I'm just finding it all a little sad.

Yep you nailed it - nzru are taking an opportunistic self interest battle for control with covid crisis and weakened state of oz rugby to take advantage of the situation and quite ruthlessly. It is very sad and given the history between nz and oz quite devastating to see such disdain and lack of any respect shown towards us as any sort of valued partner.

 

[Dan54]

Well they have at the very least officially reported that they will lock in an 8 team comp for 2022. So who are these mystery teams gunna be? The general hypocrisy of slagging on the Force for 10 years only three inferior teams into your own hypothetical comp stands.

I mean, fine, don't believe it. But if you just refute everything that is reported every single time it doesn't really leave us with much to discuss.

'Hey look at this fucked thing' - 'can't be real bro your argument is irrelevant'. Alright man.

As to the finances - NZRU's own report said a standalone competition was not viable. How could a competition not be financially viable but the teams are? does not compute.

So where is the official report that they have an 8 team locked in 2022? I read the NZR website most days and haven't seen that. I do believe you are making things up.
This is a statement 2 hours old from NZR chairman
Super Rugby Aotearoa in its existing form is locked in for 2021, a crossover competition with Australia is on the wish-list and four would-be expansion franchises are being told 2022 is their earliest point of entry

Please please show me where I wrong, or where 3 teams have been added for 2022! Though it seems with comp starting early they may have a final, which I still don't see the need for(Except money)

 

[Dan54]

SKY agreed to a deal with NZRU and SANZAAR for Super a Rugby and TRC.
If NZRU can’t fulfill the terms of that contract and deliver the content that SkyTV agreed to pay for, then that contract can be terminated by the broadcaster, it’s exactly why all the broadcast contracts for AFL/NRL went back to negotiations, because the sports couldn’t deliver the content as previously agreed and the broadcasters demanded a reduced feed.

If NZRU can’t deliver a content which Sky believes is equal value to what was previously agreed, then they are in the position to force a renegotiation and demand a lesser fee. Even Ch7 is demanding a lesser contract for the BBL, it’s the same tournament but the content has changed due to covid. It will happen to the NZRU as well, it just hasn’t happened yet as they’re still scrambling to put something together and prove it’s value.

You do know that Sky TV, (partly owned by NZR) has already agreed to Super Aotearoa in broadcast for next year? They had no deal with SANZAAR, all SANZAAR partners make their own agreements with TV in respective countries. that was changed a few years back when SA tied all their rights to Currie cup etc, NZR's deal is for all domestic rugby etc, as was Australia's.

 

[Derpus]

So where is the official report that they have an 8 team locked in 2022? I read the NZR website most days and haven't seen that. I do believe you are making things up.
This is a statement 2 hours old from NZR chairman
Super Rugby Aotearoa in its existing form is locked in for 2021, a crossover competition with Australia is on the wish-list and four would-be expansion franchises are being told 2022 is their earliest point of entry

Please please show me where I wrong, or where 3 teams have been added for 2022! Though it seems with comp starting early they may have a final, which I still don't see the need for(Except money)

In the link provided. Since you have become something of a pedant the exact terminology used was:

From 2022, New Zealand Rugby is committed to expanding Super Rugby Aotearoa beyond the five existing Kiwi franchises by a "minimum" of three teams.

Of the eight expressions of interest NZR received for Super Rugby Aotearoa, four have been deemed worthy of ongoing negotiations.

 

[Dan54]

In the link provided. Since you have become something of a pedant the exact terminology used was:

Yes but what official report was it, you have assured us that Force, China Lions and Drua are the one NZR want? I would be interested to see whole NZR report that has this I am truly interested. If NZ does expand by 4 teams, I would expect one from Tasman, and know they have talked to NZR about what the possibility is earlier in year, and I actually heard the Chairman of Tasman discussing that. I can understand the idea of 8 teams and wanting that to expand by at LEAST 3 teams and having a TT with Aus with 4-5 teams.

 

[Derpus]

Yes but what official report was it, you have assured us that Force, China Lions and Drua are the one NZR want? I would be interested to see whole NZR report that has this I am truly interested. If NZ does expand by 4 teams, I would expect one from Tasman, and know they have talked to NZR about what the possibility is earlier in year, and I actually heard the Chairman of Tasman discussing that. I can understand the idea of 8 teams and wanting that to expand by at LEAST 3 teams and having a TT with Aus with 4-5 teams.

I haven't 'assured you' - i said that's what's reported and its fucking retarded.

We already know the four current Super Rugby teams did not submit an expression of interest so it can't be them.

As i said before - if you just want to deny everything that's ever reported then that's fine. But what's the point in commenting on forum discussions?

 

[Dan54]

Roux blamed NZR for their exit, claiming it was only interested in a trans-Tasman or domestic Super Rugby showcase.
So it true that Roux said that NZR were only interested in a TT or domestic rugby, so I guess RA still had interest in playing in SA regardless of what Hamish has said or said earlier in year? And I ask if NZR is now to blame for SA leaving super rugby, is that to say all the ones on here that wanted them to leave or posted as such think NZR were wrong? Or have you all changed your mind?

 

[Dan54]

I haven't 'assured you' - i said that's what's reported and its fucking retarded.

We already know the four current Super Rugby teams did not submit an expression of interest so it can't be them.

As i said before - if you just want to deny everything that's ever reported then that's fine. But what's the point in commenting on forum discussions?

I not denying everything that reported, I telling you not to be dumb enough to believe it! OK you didn't assure me but you stated it was true.

 

[Derpus]

by the way “Yesterday the NZR board short-listed four preferred [candidates] for 2022 and beyond, subject to those caveats mentioned previously. We hope to announce them shortly, but some are subject to commercial confidentiality at this point."

That's a quote from Impey.

 

[Derpus]

Roux blamed NZR for their exit, claiming it was only interested in a trans-Tasman or domestic Super Rugby showcase.
So it true that Roux said that NZR were only interested in a TT or domestic rugby, so I guess RA still had interest in playing in SA regardless of what Hamish has said or said earlier in year? And I ask if NZR is now to blame for SA leaving super rugby, is that to say all the ones on here that wanted them to leave or posted as such think NZR were wrong? Or have you all changed your mind?

Yeah but McLellan spoke to them before doing anything - unlike NZR. Which is the exact thing NZR are being slated for. Their 3rd grade level communication skills and decision making.

 

[Dan54]

by the way “Yesterday the NZR board short-listed four preferred [candidates] for 2022 and beyond, subject to those caveats mentioned previously. We hope to announce them shortly, but some are subject to commercial confidentiality at this point."

That's a quote from Impey.

Yep I read that, I not arguing that, I don't know who they are, Impey also said they are Pasifika/Asia based teams and would be Pasifika based , I struggling to find BOP or Force mentioned in it, they are the teams along with China Lions you said were the 3 weak teams NZ were adding.

From your post that I responded to:

The biggest thing for me is the hypocrisy. We've been hearing for the last 6 months that we can't have 5 teams because we don't have enough talent and have been hearing for a decade that the Force don't cut the mustard and their times are shit. And now they want the fucken China Lions and Force to join their comp?
So they have 4 teams showing interest and I asking where you have seen they want Force and China Lions to join them? That is all I asking you.

 

[Derpus]

Yep I read that, I not arguing that, I don't know who they are, Impey also said they are Pasifika/Asia based teams and would be Pasifika based , I struggling to find BOP or Force mentioned in it, they are the teams along with China Lions you said were the 3 weak teams NZ were adding.

Alright, well it remains to be seen. Still seems dumb as fuck to me.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

So reading impey interview - crossover competition with oz planned - subject to oz broadcast deal. trans Tasman competition in discussions for 2012 but planning to announce 3 néw sides for super rugby nz sides from 2022 - how does one reconcile latter with discussions for tran Taman Comp + 8 super rugby nz competition sides announced for 2022 on 30 November vs 5 oz sides seeking to be part of trans Tasman competition.

At this point nothing makes sense