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Peter Sullivan (51)
Some shocking tackling there from the Aussies.
Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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Some shocking tackling there from the Aussies.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
Yeah I found it pretty funny as people on the forum cry wolf whenever a youngin in Aussie plays professional footy too early and that the Kiwis would never do it.
However, I know he is the exception to the rule and he has been playing senior grade for his local club this year anyway.
He played ok, marshaled well and took good options. Didn't execute them too well at times though with some poor passes. I found it amusing that they commented that the day after his provincial debut he was back on the books for exams.
It was unusual for him to be used so young by the Kiwis as I reported earlier in another thread:
As for people "crying wolf" - it a facile phrase but does not address the main objection to the practice - that there are are only so many tackle/ruck incidents that a body can deal with in a rugby career and it is better to postpone the career load to start when a young body is better prepared for it.
When I last wrote about this I said that a number of parents of elite young players had agreed with me on this in the last 11 years or so I have expressed the opinion on various rugby forums. I also reported that there were two G&G forum members who are parents of recent Oz Schools players who agreed with me back channel. Since then a parent of a 2009 Oz Schools player has became a 3rd.
I have been challenged on this by folks over the years asking whose careers have been cut short by too early exposure and what about Pocock and whomever? Standard rebuttals. The parents I discussed the matters with weren't really interested in what has happened to others, just what may happen to their own boys - and we should look at the matter through their eyes.
They don't think it's funny.
End of rant.
As for people "crying wolf" - it a facile phrase but does not address the main objection to the practice - that there are are only so many tackle/ruck incidents that a body can deal with in a rugby career and it is better to postpone the career load to start when a young body is better prepared for it.
When I last wrote about this I said that a number of parents of elite young players had agreed with me on this in the last 11 years or so I have expressed the opinion on various rugby forums. I also reported that there were two G&G forum members who are parents of recent Oz Schools players who agreed with me back channel. Since then a parent of a 2009 Oz Schools player has became a 3rd.
I have been challenged on this by folks over the years asking whose careers have been cut short by too early exposure and what about Pocock and whomever? Standard rebuttals. The parents I discussed the matters with weren't really interested in what has happened to others, just what may happen to their own boys - and we should look at the matter through their eyes.
They don't think it's funny.
End of rant.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
I agree with you Lee, didn't say I didn't.
I just found it amusing that we often demonise our system and heap praise on NZ's but they aren't entirely above it either.
I just found it amusing that we often demonise our system and heap praise on NZ's but they aren't entirely above it either.
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Englands newest star Ben youngs started his career at 17,
Loads of the greatest players started at 18,19,20
Recently NZ have had Toeava, cruden, rokocoko,guildford Im sure there are a couple more
England have had Wilko, matt tait, ben youngs, a few others aswell
Aus from the past three years have had, cooper, beale, JOC (James O'Connor), morahan, To'omua, genia, giteau, barnes, horne, pocock all in their national squads
Loads of the greatest players started at 18,19,20
Recently NZ have had Toeava, cruden, rokocoko,guildford Im sure there are a couple more
England have had Wilko, matt tait, ben youngs, a few others aswell
Aus from the past three years have had, cooper, beale, JOC (James O'Connor), morahan, To'omua, genia, giteau, barnes, horne, pocock all in their national squads
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Rothschild
Guest
Without prejuduce:
Qld have only taken one schoolboy into the academy this year - that being Mick Bermingham. They did however take about 6 from club rugby in a show of compliance with the ARU's desire to leave schoolboys in club for a year or so before being inducted into academies.
Around Australia I only know of scant schoolboys being brought into academies for next year - Apo, Seague maybe a couple more (Killingworth probably) in NSW, Roach and Crook (the only one this year to receive professional status) for the Brumbies and as far as I know only bunny O'Connor from TSS plus Neugebauer to the Force.
There may and probably are more to add but that is the extent of this persons knowledge.
Qld have only taken one schoolboy into the academy this year - that being Mick Bermingham. They did however take about 6 from club rugby in a show of compliance with the ARU's desire to leave schoolboys in club for a year or so before being inducted into academies.
Around Australia I only know of scant schoolboys being brought into academies for next year - Apo, Seague maybe a couple more (Killingworth probably) in NSW, Roach and Crook (the only one this year to receive professional status) for the Brumbies and as far as I know only bunny O'Connor from TSS plus Neugebauer to the Force.
There may and probably are more to add but that is the extent of this persons knowledge.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
I like the way the Tahs have called what used to be the pro academy the extended squad and the amature academy just the academy.
It's what the call then in NZ I think and it makes sense. Educate young up and comers in the academy, keep the older hard-headed club players in the extended squad in case your team cops a few injury troubles.
It's what the call then in NZ I think and it makes sense. Educate young up and comers in the academy, keep the older hard-headed club players in the extended squad in case your team cops a few injury troubles.
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Rothschild
Guest
Just repeating off the cuff just to get into 1st XV isn't on.
John was always going to do a three year 11/12. TSS is very particular about repeats, particularly sports people and if the acedemics are not really up to scratch or showing promise it's not on.
Many try and most are declined.
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Fair enough Rothschild but he played for the 2nds in year 12 first time round, I think Ben Tapuai did year 12 twice and he was 1st XV in 05,06 and 07.
I don't mind another O'connor playing for the force but surely there are players in the schooloys a year younger that are not going to get contracts that are rated higher by the selectors.
Is the repeat about trying to improve academics or extending their sporting tenure?
I don't mind another O'connor playing for the force but surely there are players in the schooloys a year younger that are not going to get contracts that are rated higher by the selectors.
Is the repeat about trying to improve academics or extending their sporting tenure?
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Rothschild
Guest
Simon Moraghan is the only one I can think of that has played 3 years in TSS 1st XV.
I am also pretty sure Ben only played 1stXV in year 12. Certainly can't remember him there in year 11. I will have to consult my resident TSS expert for that.
Your basic understanding of young O'Connor however is essentially correct. He was no where good enough first time round and not that flash the second sitting, however he is, like his brother extremely elusive yet extremely fragile. In three seasons at TSS he would have missed at least half - 70% through injury. he is though extremely selfish and while he might make a break more often than no the ball will die with the tackle.
I am also pretty sure Ben only played 1stXV in year 12. Certainly can't remember him there in year 11. I will have to consult my resident TSS expert for that.
Your basic understanding of young O'Connor however is essentially correct. He was no where good enough first time round and not that flash the second sitting, however he is, like his brother extremely elusive yet extremely fragile. In three seasons at TSS he would have missed at least half - 70% through injury. he is though extremely selfish and while he might make a break more often than no the ball will die with the tackle.
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Rothschild forgot about simon morahan,
Benny tapuai
2007 http://www.tss.qld.edu.au/TSSSport/PhotoArchive/rugby/2007/imagepages/image813.html
2006 http://www.tss.qld.edu.au/TSSSport/PhotoArchive/rugby/2006/imagepages/image166.html
2005 http://www.tss.qld.edu.au/TSSSport/PhotoArchive/rugby/2005/imagepages/image141.html
Yeh he had a shoulder op or something, thats what I heard on TWFforum anyway. Do you think that Jonnny will make it?
Benny tapuai
2007 http://www.tss.qld.edu.au/TSSSport/PhotoArchive/rugby/2007/imagepages/image813.html
2006 http://www.tss.qld.edu.au/TSSSport/PhotoArchive/rugby/2006/imagepages/image166.html
2005 http://www.tss.qld.edu.au/TSSSport/PhotoArchive/rugby/2005/imagepages/image141.html
Yeh he had a shoulder op or something, thats what I heard on TWFforum anyway. Do you think that Jonnny will make it?
IMHO only certain positions are age independent, and almost none of the forwards fall into this category.
Exceptional once in a generation players only can make it as schoolboys (or 1st year out) in the big time. For every success story, there are numerous broken players who have been cast prematurely into the annuls of history without being given a proper opportunity to reach their full potential.
Bravo to the Parents and Player Managers of the Elite who resist temptation to fast track their charges prematurely. Short term pain is long term gain.
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Rothschild
Guest
I checked with my TSS person and he thinks Taps may have played in 1st XV over 3 years but wasn't a regular in grade 10. That picture from 2005 is against Downlands and TSS generally play the 2nd XV in that game as it is a bye so he would have been in the 16a's and that is evidenced by subsequent pics where it shows him wearing No22 so he would have been a replacement in that game, not a regulare 1stXV player. He would however have had run ons from the bench.
Will bunny O'Connor make it? One would have to be circumspect to avoid suspension here however considering;
1. he was only picked in GPSII's,
2. totally blew his chance of Qld selection (aside from being injured) by making great breaks and refusing to pass to support,
3. is incessantly injured and
4. the only reason he has a Force deal is because his father is a great negotiator and it was a condition of big brothers renewal..
IMO has I said before he isn't that good and, he isn't terribly fast, suspect in defence, he has a pathological aversion to passing the ball and nearly cost TSS this year in a number of games - against Ipswich and Terrace particularly and that fact you can take to the bank. Evasive and looks good yes, long term prospect no.
No, I don't think he will make it.
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Thanks for the update rothschild, that is good negotations by O'Connor senior. He could have been best mates with steven pocock at the force but apparently he has quit rugby due to injuries.
I wonder why he went to TSS rater than follow James to Nudgee, when James came to the force I swear that he was criticized a little bit by people for being a little greedy in matches at NC. Surprising that he got the call from the force so early when he wasn't a starter for the Aus 07 schoolboys.
Simon Morahan must have been an impressive schools player to play in the 07 TSS side when he was in year 10
I agree with Hugh that the forwards tend to have to wait longer than the backs. 9's i think can start really young, often see 18,19 year olds starting or benching in the aviva premiership
I wonder why he went to TSS rater than follow James to Nudgee, when James came to the force I swear that he was criticized a little bit by people for being a little greedy in matches at NC. Surprising that he got the call from the force so early when he wasn't a starter for the Aus 07 schoolboys.
Simon Morahan must have been an impressive schools player to play in the 07 TSS side when he was in year 10
I agree with Hugh that the forwards tend to have to wait longer than the backs. 9's i think can start really young, often see 18,19 year olds starting or benching in the aviva premiership
R
Rothschild
Guest
I will leave comment on that to those who know less than I
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