Obl

[ChargerWA]

RIP Osama Bin Laden - World hide and seek champion 2001 - 2011

 

[I like to watch]

When the US gets caught lying by Wikileaks nothing happens.

apart from the immediate arrest the wiki dude!

 

[Scarfman]

I'm staggered at the faith that some people have in the honesty of the US military. It just proves my point about Wikileaks I guess.

I'm happy to believe that the OBL-killing is real, would just like as few signs of bullshit and story-changing as possible.

 

[Jnor]

Oh he's dead. What were they going to make the next Call of Duty about otherwise?

 

[I like to watch]

I am sure it is real, just the timing is a bit off. They did need him "alive" to be the villain in the piece for the past 10 odd years. Without OBL where would the war on terror have been?
I am surprised OBL stayed "alive" for so long after the GFC!

 

[#1 Tah]

I for one see this as bad.
OBL wasn't actually doing anything, and now some goon who wants to be then next head of Al Quaeda will launch some misguided terrorist attack on the US.

2 wars, 100,000 dead, but we got the guys who havent done anything in 10 years!

 

[Scarfman]

So far, two official reasons have been given for burying him at sea:

1. Islamic tradition (YEAH RIGHT!!!)
2. Difficult to find a country to host the remains (YEAH RIGHT!!!)

Two official stories on DNA matching:

1. It has been done
2. It is being done

Two stories on the killing:
1. Pakistan military lead the way
2. Pakistan military knew nothing about it

Next!

 

[Scarfman]

This guy accidently tweeted the raid and his account matches up more with the Pakistani version, i.e., Pakistani heli crashes first, then US helis come. Nothing in itself, but adds to the picture.

http://twitter.com/#!/ReallyVirtual

 

[barbarian]

Scarfy you have not addressed any of my points. If this is a conspiracy, why now?

I don't quite know what you are trying to argue. That he died years ago? That he is still alive?

And of course details are going to filter out slowly. It was a top-secret military operation, they aren't going to lay all the cards down on the table as soon as it happens. It will come out gradually.

 

[Scarfman]

Some doubt creeping into the Guardian's reportage:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/bin-laden-body-buried-sea

 

[Scarfman]

barbarian: I am currently not arguing anything except that the story seemed wrong to me from the start, and that the US Govt / military almost always lie about anything. It's not my job (at this stage) to explain why they have done it.

Also - the President HAS laid all the cards out on the table. He gave a very detailed report. That doesn't mean it's the truth, though.

 

[Moses]

I wont believe it until the weekend at Bernie's style pics show up on the soldiers' facebook profiles

 

[qwerty51]

The final picture was the official one released by the US (or so I am told by C9) - have they retracted that now? What was the excuse?

Make your own minds up. Personally think it's suss, timing could be for the Democrats to win 2012.

 

[Scarfman]

There could be any reason - just an excuse to get out of Afghanistan strikes me as obvious.

Anyway - I'm off to bed. Just for the record, all I'm saying is that the burial at sea is extremely suss, but if they produce a photo, I'm cool.

 

[bryce]

I was surprised when I found out. I sort of half assumed he'd been dead for a while. It will be interesting to see what this actually leads to. Funnily enough, I think I read a story a few weeks back about Al Qaida claiming to have a nuclear bomb hidden somewhere in Europe, which would be set off it Bin Laden were killed. Then this happens. Interesting timing. Either way, I'm not sure it will achieve that much in the grand scheme of things. I certainly don't think it will put an end to terrorism. The root causes of it still exist.

I'm not sure about the conspiracy theories, although I generally am pretty cautious in believing anything the US government says. Would they release a picture though? It seems like it would be a red rag to a bull.

I will say that the burial at sea didn't strike me as that suss - other than the 'Muslim tradition' reason. I'd never heard of that.

The burial at sea actually made sense to me as it reminded me of Adolf Eichmann - after he was executed his ashes were scattered in the Mediterranean. This was to ensure that there would be no memorial site, and because no country wanted to serve as his resting place. Symbolic stuff like that happened in Germany quite a lot - old Nazi sites, and all evidence of their existence, are often destroyed so that they don't become pilgrimage sites for followers. Hitler's bunker, Spandau Prison (where Hess, Speer etc. did their time), Hitler's mountain house etc. So that part wasn't suspicious to me. Which state would want to have Bin Laden buried in its soil?

 

[bryce]

Also, I'd be interested to know if there was a possibility to have captured him, instead of killing him? Probably would have been tough even if that had been the mission - no doubt Bin Laden and his body guards would have done everything to prevent being taken alive. And every one of those Navy Seals probably wanted to go down in history (at least, to become a legend within their own unit, as it will probably be kept a secret) as the man who killed Bin Laden.

Ah well, no chance of it now, but a Bin Laden trial (and interviews) would have made for fascinating viewing/reading.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

The final picture was the official one released by the US (or so I am told by C9) - have they retracted that now? What was the excuse?

No it wasn't.

Oh he's dead. What were they going to make the next Call of Duty about otherwise?

It's amazing what the Americans can accomplish while the Sony network is down isn't it. No Call of Duty online? They found the next best alternative.

There could be any reason - just an excuse to get out of Afghanistan strikes me as obvious.

If I was to buy into any conspiracy theory this would be the driving point. I agree the sea burial was a bit unexpected, in a similar way as the Saddam Hussin capture/hanging, but I can see merit in the reasons given. I guess we'll wait and see what develops.

 

[Newb]

when i first saw this i never doubted it, and i suppose i still don't. some things are strange about it, especially the sea burial thing. don't quite get that. but i don't really expect a lot of info out of it, or the press to get this rumor or that rumor straight. i have very little faith in journos anymore. lots of special forces missions don't get exposed for years because of their nature and this one might stay pretty tight-lipped for a while too. i agree it would be good to have some kind of definitive proof though.

but i really don't think they'd lie about this one. seems like the kind of thing that would get around the military quick and those guys would have a real problem with it. and a lot of the public here have a big connection with 9/11 and are taking it in such a positive manner that if it came out as not true they might actually storm the white house. it would be bad.

 

[mark_s]

Frankly I don't care whether they did or didn't bury him at sea. Right now that is probably the best thing to say either way. For all we know they may have discretely returned his remains to his family in Saudi Arabia for them to do with them what they will.

What both the US and pretty much every country will want to avoid is a situation where his final resting place becomes a sacred site for extremists. The story of burial at sea (true or not) achieves this nicely.

 

[Scarfman]

Are you actually buying the story that immediate burial at sea (within 12 hours of killing him) was the only way to avoid setting up a shrine for followers? I'm pretty sure there are other ways of disposing bodies apart from burying them in a grave with a headstone: here lies Osama bin Laden.

With these things, it's tricky when you know that the US Govt generally lies. You don't believe the official story, but also, you don't want to invent stories just to fit the picture. That's where conspiracy theories come from.