boyo
Mark Ella (57)
A player (or players) being offside is not the referee's fault, it is the player's (or players') fault.
2012 Rugby Championship Game 1 Australia vs New Zealand - 18 August
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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A player (or players) being offside is not the referee's fault, it is the player's (or players') fault.
Excellent example of Hansen out thinking Dingo, and many others in the media.
The focus of Dingo in his defensive selections for #12/#13 and the way the defensive game plan was executed on Saturday was all about stopping the threat of $BW and Nonu. Plenty of times that the ball threatened to go close to the Darkness 12/13, we put three defenders on the two attackers. Instant overlap.
The Lords of Darkness had the Men in Gold on the back foot from the get go. We were reacting to the Darkness moves, not forcing them to react to us. By the time our defensive reactions were ready to be put into effect, the Darkness had decided to do something else, rendering our reaction ineffective. A clear cut case of Hansen getting inside Dingo's decision/reaction cycle.
D
daz
Guest
I wasn't really "smashing the tv and kicking the dog" angry after the game on the weekend.
To do that I would have had high expectations going into the game, and frankly, I didn't.
Forget the dropped balls and poor positioning for one on one tackles. That is a players fault and I do not blame Deans for Kurtley, Higgers, et al having a personal shocker. I agree with the viewpoint that Deans needs to assume players have some basic skills at national level.
Where I get mind numbingly frustrated and so angry I am in danger of having a stroke, is where we have weeks of flawless prep and lots of talk about how "this is our time" hyperbole, then fail to even fire a shot in anger.
It is about selections when there has been months of high level discussion and planning, and we still get it wrong.
It is about the complete and utter inability to adapt to the game and switch things up. After numerous times where we failed to make even the smallest dent in the AB defensive line, where was the plan B? Where was the plan to change tactics to a situation that was clearly not working?
It is about going down in front of a home crowd and then saying we need to "do better". What the fuck have you been doing in camp all this time?
Is there anyone who seriously believes the Bled is still a chance? We will get beaten this weekend, possibly quite badly. If so, you can kiss the Bled and the RC goodbye.
To do that I would have had high expectations going into the game, and frankly, I didn't.
Forget the dropped balls and poor positioning for one on one tackles. That is a players fault and I do not blame Deans for Kurtley, Higgers, et al having a personal shocker. I agree with the viewpoint that Deans needs to assume players have some basic skills at national level.
Where I get mind numbingly frustrated and so angry I am in danger of having a stroke, is where we have weeks of flawless prep and lots of talk about how "this is our time" hyperbole, then fail to even fire a shot in anger.
It is about selections when there has been months of high level discussion and planning, and we still get it wrong.
It is about the complete and utter inability to adapt to the game and switch things up. After numerous times where we failed to make even the smallest dent in the AB defensive line, where was the plan B? Where was the plan to change tactics to a situation that was clearly not working?
It is about going down in front of a home crowd and then saying we need to "do better". What the fuck have you been doing in camp all this time?
Is there anyone who seriously believes the Bled is still a chance? We will get beaten this weekend, possibly quite badly. If so, you can kiss the Bled and the RC goodbye.
Rugrat
Darby Loudon (17)
The coach is responsible for the game plan, selections, team mental and physical preperation, bench use. All were lacking.
My post was a reply to someone saying that if one player drops a ball it is the player's fault, but if lots of players are dropping the ball it is fair to blame the coach.
I think that is rubbish.
Deans deserves blame for plenty of things, but players dropping passes is not one of them.
I think that is rubbish.
Deans deserves blame for plenty of things, but players dropping passes is not one of them.
T
TOCC
Guest
Can anyone say they were honestly surprised with that result... Given the selections, a loss was always on the cards
I was surprised with how poorly we played.
Almost all our players were nowhere near their best.
New Zealand didn't play very well either. The scoreline could have easily been quite ugly.
Almost all our players were nowhere near their best.
New Zealand didn't play very well either. The scoreline could have easily been quite ugly.
Forget about plan B, Did we actually have a plan A?
At best it appeared to be "stop the Inside Backs by tackling them".
When I need some repairs done to Chez Jarse, the tradespeople turn up with their ute, and generally rock up to the front door with the tools and parts they believe necessary to effect the repairs as described by yours truly.
If the scope of the repairs is different, because of a poor work brief from me or whatever, the tradie then goes back to their ute and brings the correct tooling and spare parts to complete the job. They turn up to work prepared to do not only what they think they need to do, but they have the necessary bits and pieces to adjust to a situation that may be slightly different to that which they expected/anticipated.
If Tradies can do a Plan B, Plan C, Plan D etc when things are not precisely as initially thought, why can't the Men in Gold? They are all full time professional athletes at the alleged peak of their skills. They should be able to think for themselves and adjust/tweak things accordingly.
The Coach and assistants have the ability to run messages during the game to the players to assist them to make the decision to tweak/adjust tactics. The Captain, vice captain and players themselves should also have to take responsibility for adjusting the plans if it is obvious that the "job brief" was not quite on right at kick off.
Players and coach have to take responsibility.
At best it appeared to be "stop the Inside Backs by tackling them".
When I need some repairs done to Chez Jarse, the tradespeople turn up with their ute, and generally rock up to the front door with the tools and parts they believe necessary to effect the repairs as described by yours truly.
If the scope of the repairs is different, because of a poor work brief from me or whatever, the tradie then goes back to their ute and brings the correct tooling and spare parts to complete the job. They turn up to work prepared to do not only what they think they need to do, but they have the necessary bits and pieces to adjust to a situation that may be slightly different to that which they expected/anticipated.
If Tradies can do a Plan B, Plan C, Plan D etc when things are not precisely as initially thought, why can't the Men in Gold? They are all full time professional athletes at the alleged peak of their skills. They should be able to think for themselves and adjust/tweak things accordingly.
The Coach and assistants have the ability to run messages during the game to the players to assist them to make the decision to tweak/adjust tactics. The Captain, vice captain and players themselves should also have to take responsibility for adjusting the plans if it is obvious that the "job brief" was not quite on right at kick off.
Players and coach have to take responsibility.
The Red Baron
Chilla Wilson (44)
A lot of people have said that the All Blacks didn't get out of 3rd gear for that game. I have to agree. I also think that our gearbox is broken, the clutch is stuffed, the engine oil hasn't been changed for so long that it is now sludge and we have rusted out bodywork.
D
daz
Guest
FWIW, just an observation:
After the Ireland game in the RWC11 where we got smashed backwards, I would have thought that there would have been a sign over every locker and tattooed on every players wrist that says "When you carry the ball and run at the defensive line, GO IN FUCKING LOW!"
Ditto passing the ball backwards inside your 22 (do try to hit your target), and off-loading to a static player (just fucking take the hit and go down) and chip kicking (do not just kick it to your direct opponent so he can reload, pretty please).
After the Ireland game in the RWC11 where we got smashed backwards, I would have thought that there would have been a sign over every locker and tattooed on every players wrist that says "When you carry the ball and run at the defensive line, GO IN FUCKING LOW!"
Ditto passing the ball backwards inside your 22 (do try to hit your target), and off-loading to a static player (just fucking take the hit and go down) and chip kicking (do not just kick it to your direct opponent so he can reload, pretty please).
SaderCheif
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Pretty fair player ratings for both teams...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10828096
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10828096
W
Wooden Horse
Guest
Ref saved Oz from another humiliation! Not only by their usual of his typical Nth Hemisphere ‘in over his head’ nitpicking; strangely, we need this game time with Nth refs to build game plans to COPE! The ref protected them from the obvious power imbalance in every forward battle. The Oz forwards could not even do the job of a scrum machine & offer some, even if crumbling, resistance. Scrums, rucks especially. Worse still, good old Nth ref had to give them charity penalties.
If Oz can’t win with Deans they can’t win with anyone. Deans previous record & methodology would stack up against anyone, especially whatever Aust. Rugby can offer, anytime. Before the inevitable scapegoating push, Deans need to stating his clearly superior understanding of the perilous state of Oz rugby & the remedy. But the solution ain’t simple & is long term. Yep the same long term O’Neil & the current Aust. Rugby Union Inc. have had, failed & hence should go. O’Neil & his Inc. club rode the wave of 90’s coach Rod Macqueen success. If the Union is the business operator, players the Union’s ‘shares’ and participants & viewers the Union’s customers…AND THEY ARE….the business is bust…..bring in the administrators!
Maybe immediately or asap that means a negotiated corporate sponsor lead raid on league in HOPE of a Wallaby revival, in HOPE home revival in support, participation & viewers (i.e. in HOPE, desperately beyond just the Eastern states). Yep lots of wishful HOPE.
Aust. Rugby Union Inc, needs to be flushed out & REFORMED, & that before any help is offered. Since Oz rugby's 90's peak and their $20M profiting World Cup, Oz rugby has plummeted in performance, participation & viewers.....WHAT?!....did I mean the other way? NOPE! An outcome of the lazy boys club that the business operators of Oz rugby is, the Aust. Rugby Union Inc.
If Oz can’t win with Deans they can’t win with anyone. Deans previous record & methodology would stack up against anyone, especially whatever Aust. Rugby can offer, anytime. Before the inevitable scapegoating push, Deans need to stating his clearly superior understanding of the perilous state of Oz rugby & the remedy. But the solution ain’t simple & is long term. Yep the same long term O’Neil & the current Aust. Rugby Union Inc. have had, failed & hence should go. O’Neil & his Inc. club rode the wave of 90’s coach Rod Macqueen success. If the Union is the business operator, players the Union’s ‘shares’ and participants & viewers the Union’s customers…AND THEY ARE….the business is bust…..bring in the administrators!
Maybe immediately or asap that means a negotiated corporate sponsor lead raid on league in HOPE of a Wallaby revival, in HOPE home revival in support, participation & viewers (i.e. in HOPE, desperately beyond just the Eastern states). Yep lots of wishful HOPE.
Aust. Rugby Union Inc, needs to be flushed out & REFORMED, & that before any help is offered. Since Oz rugby's 90's peak and their $20M profiting World Cup, Oz rugby has plummeted in performance, participation & viewers.....WHAT?!....did I mean the other way? NOPE! An outcome of the lazy boys club that the business operators of Oz rugby is, the Aust. Rugby Union Inc.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
The only player that Deans could have picked that would have made any significant difference is QC (Quade Cooper).
Given the last time he played the AB's he was embarrassed,and has only had limited game time since, do you really believe any coach would have selected him in this particular game?
D
daz
Guest
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "What?"
GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
But when you pick QC (Quade Cooper) it changes everything.
The Type of 12/13 you need the Work your Beale’s and Digge’rs need to do the way Genia plays and the types of forwards you need.
It changes the attacked and makes other teams think twice about what is coming. Why not make NZ think for a change and make them Defended instead of us trying to stop them or to lessen the amount we lose by.
Who Cares if we lose by 60 points or 8 points we still lose. Why not go out and say hey all blacks try and stop us and if you can power to you
But to go out and say I’m going to try and stop you and then see if I can maybe get in front and hold out is a defeatist attitude one that shouldnt be part of Australian Rugby
.
boyo
Mark Ella (57)
The referee should manage the game. That in no way causes a player to be offside.
D
daz
Guest
It has been mentioned here a few times, but surely, surely, surely, NZRU have shown us poor fools the value of planned and effective succession planning in the coaches area.
Hansen did not just out think Deans at this game; he has been doing it for years in the background and he is all over our players and "game plan". Who is helping Deans with his planning? Bill and Ben the fucking flowerpot men, perhaps.
I notice that Totality Tony has been quiet of late. He had an opinion on everything when he first started, what does he have to say now?
I think most people would care about this.
If it actually happened and we got flogged by 60 points it would be an absolute nadir for Australian rugby.
It wouldn't matter one iota that we 'gave it a crack' and threw the ball around.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Exactly, everyone says they don't care if we get beat by 1 or 60.
Until we get beat by 60.
Until we get beat by 60.
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