Australia vs British and Irish Lions 2nd Test (Melbourne)

[Braveheart81]

You wouldn't look to have AWJ suspended for putting Horwill in a dangerous position where he could have seriously twisted, sprained or maybe broken his ankle via the facial contact to Horwill's boot?

I'm sure there's a Law somewhere that would back it up..

10.4 Dangerous play and misconduct
(a)

Punching or striking. A player must not strike an opponent with the fist or arm, including the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).


AWJ's vicious headbutt of Horwill's boot was extremely dangerous.​

 

[Pusser]

By the way, it's pretty interesting to look at the stats from the second test.

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match22231.html

Mowen, who everyone thinks had a great game: 3 tackles, 5 runs (20m), 4 penalties, 1 t/o, 5 ruck/mauls.

Who keeps these stats? They show Robinson as having no penalties when the video clearly shows the ref telling him that he did not release the tackled player before attacking the ball. In the forums this penalty has been attributed variously to Simmons for not releasing and Mowen for sealing off. The ref is clearly calling for a release and talks to Robinson.



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[Slim 293]

By the way, it's pretty interesting to look at the stats from the second test.

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match22231.html

Mowen, who everyone thinks had a great game: 3 tackles, 5 runs (20m), 4 penalties, 1 t/o, 5 ruck/mauls.

Palu, who a number of people think was rubbish: 5 tackles, 12 runs (41m), 1 penalty, 1 t/o, 11 ruck/mauls.

Moore: 9 tackles, 12 runs (35m), 1 penalty, 3 t/o, 12 ruck/mauls.

Again, it's not that stats explain everything and some of the various involvements could have been ineffective, but it does give some interesting counterpoints to the general narrative. 4 penalties from Mowen, for example, is really bad and could easily have lost us the series. Palu only played 61 minutes, but still accumulated better stats than Mowen. I'm not saying Palu had a better game necessarily, just that the stats tell a more nuanced story than some punters.

I find rugby stats to generally be more reliable than ESPN but on this one they can't be right.......

For instance, over at ESPN has Mowen making 6 tackles with Palu 4........

At one point in the match Mowen actually made 2 - 3 consecutive tackles when he tackled a forward runner, got up, tackled the next Lions player to pick up the ball, got up, and then contested the next ruck.......

 

[Richo]

Who keeps these stats? They show Robinson as having no penalties when the video clearly shows the ref telling him that he did not release the tackled player before attacking the ball. In the forums this penalty has been attributed variously to Simmons for not releasing and Mowen for sealing off. The ref is clearly calling for a release and talks to Robinson.

I find rugby stats to generally be more reliable than ESPN but on this one they can't be right...

For instance, over at ESPN has Mowen making 6 tackles with Palu 4....

At one point in the match Mowen actually made 2 - 3 consecutive tackles when he tackled a forward runner, got up, tackled the next Lions player to pick up the ball, got up, and then contested the next ruck...

Most stats site aren't 100% reliable. I always think they are more helpful as giving indications of performance or testing perceptions.

 

[Slim 293]

True, although in this case they've totally undercut Mowen's efforts......

I'd bet his ruck/maul involvements are probably double too.........

 

[Richo]

Triple, I'd say, Slim. At least. Could be quadruple, even centuple.

 

[Braveheart81]

Triple, I'd say, Slim. At least. Could be quadruple, even centuple.

Pat McMowen was brilliant!

 

[Slim 293]

Pat McMowen was brilliant!

With that neck I don't think he'd be hitting too many rucks..........

 

[flat_eric]

According to Rugbydump Sam Warburton has been officially ruled out of the decider through injury.

Seeing as he was arguably the best player on the park on the weekend, and they have already lost another notable leader in POC, that is a major loss.

 

[Pfitzy]

Tackle stats in rugby are weird because sometimes they count second man/third man, and sometimes they don't

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I hate autocorrect ...

 

[BDA]

I recall Mowen effected a few very important line-out steals and won us an important penalty at the breakdown around the 70th minute when we were desperate to get a try. Did give away some silly penalties though. But he seems to do that for the Brumbies also. I'd rate his performance as very good.

I thought Palu got through a lot of work, was secure with ball in hand and had a few good strong runs. I don't subscribe to this popular opinion that he was crap. if Higgers was fit, he could possibly offer more than Palu, but he's not.

 

[Brumby Runner]

But they are not doing 'most of the work'.

JOC (James O'Connor) is playing a game similar to what To'omua does at the Brumbies. Can take the ball to the line, but also knows when it is the time to not fuck around and get the ball into the hands of the creative guns outside him.
.

I really don't see a lot of similarity between how Matt To'omua plays at 10, and what JOC (James O'Connor) has offered in the first two tests.

 

[Zander]

Matt To'omua would've kicked the ball away.

 

[Tomikin]

By the way, it's pretty interesting to look at the stats from the second test.

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match22231.html

Mowen, who everyone thinks had a great game: 3 tackles, 5 runs (20m), 4 penalties, 1 t/o, 5 ruck/mauls.

Palu, who a number of people think was rubbish: 5 tackles, 12 runs (41m), 1 penalty, 1 t/o, 11 ruck/mauls.

Moore: 9 tackles, 12 runs (35m), 1 penalty, 3 t/o, 12 ruck/mauls.

Again, it's not that stats explain everything and some of the various involvements could have been ineffective, but it does give some interesting counterpoints to the general narrative. 4 penalties from Mowen, for example, is really bad and could easily have lost us the series. Palu only played 61 minutes, but still accumulated better stats than Mowen. I'm not saying Palu had a better game necessarily, just that the stats tell a more nuanced story than some punters.

It's good to know. I personally just eyeballing it felt Palu was ineffective. His there to be the battering ram and too often I think he goes down a little easy for some one his size. I also saw him get in genia's way during a bomb\kick off.

Im sure he will get picked for the next game so I will pay more attention to his actually performance.. Actually no I won't I be drunk screaming from the stands !!!! 'CARN WALLABIES'!!

 

[Tomikin]

The biggest concern with Mowen is him being a penalty magnet. I am sure at times he even means to give away penalties. There were several times in the game where he could have been penalised more, as he tends to flop over and seal the ball off a lot when in support of the ball carrier.

I actually think he did at one point give the penalty away near our tryline on purpose. I'm pretty sure the lions where over for 5 if he didn't

 

[Scotty]

I really don't see a lot of similarity between how Matt To'omua plays at 10, and what JOC (James O'Connor) has offered in the first two tests.

Unfair on JOC (James O'Connor) to compare though, he doesn't really play 10 all the time. Sometimes he plays 10, sometimes 13 and other times at 12. He even thinks at times he is playing a different sport when he gets in a quarter back position.

 

[Slim 293]

I really don't see a lot of similarity between how Matt To'omua plays at 10, and what JOC (James O'Connor) has offered in the first two tests.

Not at all, if anything JOC (James O'Connor) is more like Giteau.......

He stands deep, drifts wide and if he doesn't have a runner for the short pass he tries to apply the burners to get around the defender........

In both tests he's actually crabbed so far that he's run out of support runners and found himself isolated behind the gain line........

And aside from shovelling the ball off to Lilo that's pretty much all he's shown at flyhalf.......

 

[Slim 293]

Matt To'omua would've kicked the ball away.

But how would he compare to Palu?

 

[Tomikin]

But how would he compare to Palu?

Probably tackle better

 

[Bairdy]

Matt To'omua would've kicked the ball away.

Palu would chase the kick, force the turnover and sprint away for the try, though, amirite?