Pumas v Wallabies, Rosario, 5th October 2013

[Gagger]

I'm not sure how Benn Robinson is supposed to make Ben Alexander's side of the scrum go forward. He made his side go forward though, which was important.

Benn Robinson also didn't collapse or stand straight up with the pressure of the scrum. Slipper did twice, and got yellowed for it.

Fatcat then went on to pilfer the ball and get us out of our half. What more could you want?

 

[RoffsChoice]

A good LHP does make it easy for his THP.

 

[Ash]

Actually, I tend to agree with Sully on the scrum point. We were still being driven back, but the scrum wheeled slightly as we went backwards and the Argie 8 failed to control. Hooper was the fastest to the ball. A lot of luck as much as anything else.

I think that Slipper has mainly been holding up his side of the scrum OK. Robinson, though, showed that he still has the ability to get under his THP and drive up on the THP. I admit that I was also sceptical earlier this Test season, as I thought that the new engagement rules might have taken this weapon away from Fatcat. Don't mind being wrong now, though. I reckon Robinson should be our next starting LHP, and would like to see Slipper at THP with Sio and Kepu on the bench.

Regarding Simmons, he's not terrific, he's not bad, to be honest, he's been a pretty average test player that All Black game aside. Not a bad thing in itself, but we'd all like to see a bit more from our players. I would love to see Simmons work on his core strength to provide a little more edge to his game - he's a huge guy and I'd like to see him use his frame more. And lose the moronic brain explosions, of course.

Now, do we have a better replacement than Simmons at lock in the squad? At this point, I'd say Fardy would be if you want to move him from blindside. Otherwise, Timani brings physicality and some offloading but loses a lot in dynamicism (including missing more tackles), loses in the lineout (with Simmons being our major lineout stealer when we have actually pinched a few) and makes even more stupid mistakes. Douglas has been woefully out of form the chances he has had this year, to the point where I've been pretty disappointed in how he's played for the Wallabies this year.

So, no, we don't have better lock replacements if you leave Fardy at 6, and this is why Simmons, who has been merely average, is holding his spot. This is ignoring Pyle, as he is not in the squad, but I'd love to see Pyle get some exposure on the EOYT.

(For the record, I would have put Fardy at LH lock, Mowen at 6 and McCalman at 8.)

But I am more concerned with Horwill, he needs a rest, he has to be wounded, he is a better, more dynamic lock than his current form is showing.

Agree. Would like to see him left off the EOYT to get a full preparation for next year.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Every prop in every team including the Boks, wallabies AB's and others always lose a binf, slip whatever. Robbo certainly ain't the saviour.

as said the whole 8 need to be as one and the first Wallaby 6, 7, or 8 that sticks his head up to look at the time clock should be immediately subbed.

We need to build a culture of a strong scrum and that can only be done when the 8 piggies do their job

 

[Sully]

We agree but from a slightly different angle. Sick of typing on my phone will say more soon.

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[mudskipper]

Wallabies didnt miss JOC (James O'Connor) not for a moment. Tomane played very well... I'm looking forward to seeing Henry Speight playing wing, I guess that puts ACC on the bench... Kuridani has too much impact...

 

[Braveheart81]

Wallabies didnt miss JOC (James O'Connor) not for a moment. Tomane played very well. I'm looking forward to seeing Henry Speight playing wing, I guess that puts ACC on the bench. Kuridani has too much impact.

If Henry Speight was available tomorrow AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would be on the bench?

I really doubt it.

One excellent test from Tomane and a second good test from Kuridrani doesn't relegate AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to a has-been.

 

[fatprop]

If Henry Speight was available tomorrow AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would be on the bench?

I really doubt it.

One excellent test from Tomane and a second good test from Kuridrani doesn't relegate AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to a has-been.

Yeah, me thinks Kuridrani or Tomane would would end on the bench.

 

[Scrubber2050]

wasn't Tomane's defence pretty average - his attack was spectacular - reminds me of Campo

 

[Hawko]

wasn't Tomane's defence pretty average - his attack was spectacular - reminds me of Campo

One thing I know for sure - his defence reminds me of Campo, A LOT. When I first saw Campo he was something special. Over his test performances this year you would say Tomane was very inconsistent. One good performance does not a star make. He's way behind AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Speight and I'd pick Mogg and Crawford before him if they weren't in rehab. He's better than Betham in the pecking order I think

 

[Sully]

I'll firstly say that I think I worded that a bit more harshly than I should have. From looking back through posts I think I attributed more of an anti-Robinson vibe to you than is there in reality.

There is a general belief that smaller props will struggle under the new scrum laws. The Lions series and the Shute shield are not being played under them and for all we know Robinson may have really struggled with them in camp.

This is not my opinion. I had talked to a few guys including Scott Allen and they all thought smaller props would struggle. I remembered the great Scottish front rows from the 80's and know a good little guy can get under a good big guy and cause havoc. I can see how you would think this was my thinking as well though.

Or Benn Robinson would instantly fix our scrum. That's hilarious.

Well it is laughable that Benn would instantly fix our scrum woes. Many guys on here seemed to be under that impression Our scrum would be better but swapping Slipper for Robinson would still leave Alexander starting and the back five problems would remain. In my opinion Robinson is our best loose head but I also think Slipper is our second best loosehead and most of our problems are on the tighthead side. It takes eight men to make a scrum and one man can only make so much difference.

1. Benn Robinson didn’t really save us.

I’ve heard around the traps that Benn was the difference in that scrum and that’s why the ball popped out. To me it looked just like the seven scrums before it. What do you think?

And it's true. Our scrum went backwards three metres then Benn propped and turned in on their tighthead driving him up. If the ball hadn't popped out the back it was another penalty to the Pumas. And that one would certainly have resulted in a penalty try. It was luck that saved us.

I'll say it again just so you're all clear on My thinking on Benn Robinson. He is the best looshead we have. I can't understand why he was dropped but I did have a go at trying to understand the Wallabies thinking. If I selected the team he would start. I think his work around the field is at least as good as any other prop we have.

 

[Sully]

wasn't Tomane's defence pretty average - his attack was spectacular - reminds me of Campo

The stats have Tomane attempting one tackle and missing none. He was caught one in a few times but I think that was more to do with the wallabies realignment problems than his positioning.

 

[Sully]

I'm not sure how Benn Robinson is supposed to make Ben Alexander's side of the scrum go forward.

Matt this is my point in a nutshell. Robbo is not going to fix Alexanders side of the scrum. He's not the Messiah just a very good loosehead.

 

[Gagger]

Matt this is my point in a nutshell. Robbo is not going to fix Alexanders side of the scrum. He's not the Messiah just a very good loosehead.

OK - although in that particular scrum it was the fact that he didn't collapse or pop, and at least held his side or moved forward that meant the scrum wheeled and disrupted the Argies - rather than going the way of the other 7 scrums.

The subtext - he's a better loosehead than Slipper, by some distance

 

[Zander]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a must in the Austraian backline wherever he plays. He's the most consistent player Australia has, he makes little errors and does the basics very well with good decision making, a foil to the other erratic players - Australia's Conrad Smith.

 

[Sully]

OK - although in that particular scrum it was the fact that he didn't collapse or pop, and at least held his side or moved forward that meant the scrum wheeled and disrupted the Argies - rather than going the way of the other 7 scrums.

The subtext - he's a better loosehead than Slipper, by some distance

He actually went three metres backwards before he did anything.

 

[gel]

He actually went three metres backwards before he did anything.

Perhaps it is not always queenslanders that choose to see what they want to see.

I give full credit to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in that scrum for yielding just at the right time to screw the scrum around forcing the ball to pop out for Hooper to collect.

How the hell we aren't picking him for a run on 6 is beyond me.

 

[Sully]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Pocock and Higgers! What a backrow!

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[Pedrolicus]

The stats have Tomane attempting one tackle and missing none. He was caught one in a few times but I think that was more to do with the wallabies realignment problems than his positioning.

I agree, he's had poor games in the past but the last game he didn't do much wrong. The first "misread" where his wing was tested he tackled the inside man leaving the outside one free for the pass (which was dropped). As you suggest this "error" is more about failure to align properly, resulting in a two on one. The commentator on Fox made a big deal about it, but really the whole team is guilty and by forcing the pass Tomane did all he could given the situation.

 

[Pfitzy]

Second shove is important when we go backwards. This is when your loose head and your second row save the THP and vice-versa.

But if the best tight five - uninjured - are training together as a unit then we will see some improvement. Bring Sio and Alexander on in the second half to cause havoc around the park like they're meant to.