Australia Vs. England, Twickenham, 2nd November 2013

[Richo]

People still riding on Palu. He has given good service but in reality he is broken and just doesn't look to get back to anywhere near where he was. Age isn't on his side.

And yet somehow still second for the JEM.

 

[emuarse]

And yet somehow still second for the JEM.

Indeed that says a lot for Palu, as ajudged by his fellow players, who see a lot more than us couch huggers when it comes to the rucks and mauls etc.

 

[Groucho]

to me the best forward pack when all available

1. Slipper
2. Moore (or TPN - if fit, uninjured and motivated)
3. Kepu (shame Robbo is limited to LHP only)
The above 3's performances and scrum in general is determined by the below 5 acting as a unit with leg drive and heads in)

4. Horwill (when playing well and getting over ad line) (captain)
5. Simmo
6. Higgers (love his mongrel attitude)
7. Pocock
8. Palu

I think the one thing you always get with TPN is motivation. Sometimes more than his body can handle.

 

[I like to watch]

People still riding on Palu. He has given good service but in reality he is broken and just doesn't look to get back to anywhere near where he was. Age isn't on his side.

In reality,either you are clueless or hopelessly biased.
He comfortably came second in the Eales medal despite missing 7 Tests.
So either he was in pretty hot form before being injured,or the Wallabies are fucked for the foreseeable future.
But then you are one of the posters who continually call for Hooper to be replaced by Gill aren't you?
No bias there either.
By how far was Hooper judged the best player in the country?

 

[Ruggo]

Look at who poled in the John Eales medal all up. It just highlights what an injury prone previous 12 months the Wallabies have had. Most of the players who got votes played limited tests.

Feel free to use it to justify your position if you like.

 

[Muttonbird]

I think the one thing you always get with TPN is motivation. Sometimes more than his body can handle.

That's two things then. Motivation, and weakness.

 

[The Red Baron]

In reality,either you are clueless or hopelessly biased.
He comfortably came second in the Eales medal despite missing 7 Tests.
So either he was in pretty hot form before being injured,or the Wallabies are fucked for the foreseeable future.
But then you are one of the posters who continually call for Hooper to be replaced by Gill aren't you?
No bias there either.
By how far was Hooper judged the best player in the country?

I fail to see how you link Hooper and the Palu comment. If I really wanted to, I could argue that you have informed us multiple times how the Wallabies are fucked. But this would invalidate your Palu argument, and I am not that petty.

My suggestion is that you grow up, and avoid making it personal.

 

[Brumby Runner]

There's a bit of talk on here comparing Michael Hooper and David Pocock. Much of it focuses on Pocock's alleged weakness in attack, when judged against Hooper. While Hooper's attacking skills are immense, I think any Brumbies fan who attended the first few games this year (including trials) will attest to a real change in Pocock's attacking approach. He was developing into a very effective link between forwards and backs, and his distribution of the ball was very much improved. I don't think there is any reason to feel uneasy about any facet of his game when he returns, as he will just as soon as he demonstrates his fitness.

 

[Brumbieman]

My memory of Pocock's captaincy on the big stage was when HIS decision cost Australia the game against the Scots. (when he did not take the kick in front) - Terrible miscalculation - friggin unforgiveable

I would've thought there was a lot more to that loss than that. Morahan kicking the ball dead from 30m in front of our goalposts, and then being penalised in the ensuing scrum might have contributed more, IMO.

 

[Ash]

One of the things our loose forwards all need to do better is act as a linkman both between themselves and with the backs.

Look at the way McCaw, Read, Messam and co can all combine with the backs - we rarely see that from our loosies. The All Blacks set the benchmark for interchange between the loose forwards and backs. Higgers is the best we have at it I think. Pocock had appeared to be working on it before he got injured.

Hooper I don't consider as that much of a linkman. Hooper's x-factor and point of difference comes from his speed and acceleration and low centre of gravity when he runs. I very much doubt the stats that say Hooper is over 100 kg, from the size of him sometimes I think he'd be 95kg dripping wet. But he plays a bit heavier than a sub-100kg forward. I'd like to see Hooper be that bit stronger over the ball - for example guys like Pocock and Read are just so hard to dislodge once they are set over the ball.

That all being said, I think I'd pick a fully fit and inform Pocock over Hooper, as Pocock I think can play with a greater variety of backrows whereas I think that Hooper needs a bigger, grafting, balanced backrow that will give Hooper the space to shine.

 

[Bairdy]

Just been going over the England 34-man squad, as well as the two XVs from the 2012 fixture, and I can't help but think there might be a whole lot of unfamiliar faces; half the Soap Dodgers' team in fact.

England
1. Joe Marler / Mako Vunipola*
2. Tom Youngs
3. Dan Cole
4. Tom Palmer / Courtney Lawes*
5. Geoff Parling
6. Tom Johnson / Tom Wood*
7. Chris Robshaw
8. Thomas Waldrom / Ben Morgan*
9. Danny Care / Ben Youngs*
10. Toby Flood / Owen Farrell*
11. Charlie Sharples / Mike Brown*
12. Brad Barritt / Billy Twelvetrees*
13. Manu Tuilagi / Henry Trinder? or Joel Tomkins?*
14. Chris Ashton
15. Alex Goode

Australia
1. Benn Robinson
2. Tatafu Polota Nau
3. Ben Alexander
4. Sitaleki Timani
5. Nathan Sharpe
6. Dave Dennis
7. Michael Hooper
8. Wycliff Palu
9. Nick Phipps
10. Kurtley Beale
11. Digby Ioane
12. Ben Tapuai
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Nick Cummins
15. Berrick Barnes

* My predicted changes (Note: I've not watched any Premiership rugby so my lineup could be way off)

 

[Zander]

You've done very well. I think Billy Vunipola will get the #8 over Morgan however. Brown at fullback and Wade on the other wing.

 

[en_force_er]

Morgan doesn't even start for Gloucester (who aren't even doing that well full-stop) but get's to keep training with England due to central contracting rules.

Billy Vunipola is up-and-coming and will probably get named, but there's 2 other young English 8s who are up-and-coming who Lancaster has expressed interest in experimenting with but can't due to central contracting. The system's a blessing and a curse I guess.

 

[Ruggo]

One of the things our loose forwards all need to do better is act as a linkman both between themselves and with the backs.

Look at the way McCaw, Read, Messam and co can all combine with the backs - we rarely see that from our loosies. The All Blacks set the benchmark for interchange between the loose forwards and backs. Higgers is the best we have at it I think. Pocock had appeared to be working on it before he got injured.

Hooper I don't consider as that much of a linkman. Hooper's x-factor and point of difference comes from his speed and acceleration and low centre of gravity when he runs. I very much doubt the stats that say Hooper is over 100 kg, from the size of him sometimes I think he'd be 95kg dripping wet. But he plays a bit heavier than a sub-100kg forward. I'd like to see Hooper be that bit stronger over the ball - for example guys like Pocock and Read are just so hard to dislodge once they are set over the ball.

That all being said, I think I'd pick a fully fit and inform Pocock over Hooper, as Pocock I think can play with a greater variety of backrows whereas I think that Hooper needs a bigger, grafting, balanced backrow that will give Hooper the space to shine.

Actually I think it was George Smith who set the standard in regards for this type of play. He had it from the start where as Richie has adapted his game over the years. The All Blacks do it bloody well as you say though. That is actually one thing we have seen in in 2013 when talking about opensides in Australia. Hooper has the running game and Gill has the on the ball game but seeing George Smith again this year was a reminder of what you get when a 7 has the whole package. George Smith had a decent linking game though I agree with you in saying Hooper lacks it.

 

[Richo]

Look at who poled in the John Eales medal all up. It just highlights what an injury prone previous 12 months the Wallabies have had. Most of the players who got votes played limited tests.

Feel free to use it to justify your position if you like.

The argument people always make against Palu is that he's big but ineffective or lacking in impact. And yet despite playing about half the tests in the voting period, his peers rated him very highly. So either he has more impact than some fans think or the players are wrong. Whether Pocock or whoever was injured in that timeframe doesn't really matter.

 

[lpd]

What do you guys actually mean when you reference a players linking game?

 

[Scrubber2050]

I would've thought there was a lot more to that loss than that. Morahan kicking the ball dead from 30m in front of our goalposts, and then being penalised in the ensuing scrum might have contributed more, IMO.

Players fuck up regularly in the heat of battle. That pisses me off but is understandable and excusable (generally)

Once play has stopped, clear and logical thinking should prevail. It did not and just shows a very poor lack of judgment

 

[I like to watch]

That all being said, I think I'd pick a fully fit and inform Pocock over Hooper, as Pocock I think can play with a greater variety of backrows whereas I think that Hooper needs a bigger, grafting, balanced backrow that will give Hooper the space to shine.

I'd pick them both,every time.
Playing one of them with a different number on their back,is still stronger than any alternatives IMO.

 

[Scrubber2050]

To me, Hooper was the choice of JEM - still thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would be right up there.

Hooper's attacking ability was special at 2012 EOYT but dropped off a bit in 2013. Love love to see both Hooper and Pocock on the park but probably won't happen in reality

 

[ChargerWA]

I would agree that there used to be a lot of Palu doubting on here 18 months ago, but the last EOYT put that to bed in mind. I think most people are now on the Palu train.