Wales v Wallabies, Cardiff, Nov 30 2013

[Cardiffblue]

I'm in London at the moment, and my hotel has given me the Sunday Times this morning. Now, the Rugby correspondent is Stephen Jones, a cretin who loathes everything about Southern Hemisphere Rugby and thinks that a true Rugby match is played on a mudheap with a lot of rolling mauls. So I thought I'd see what he made of the game. He opens - opens! - with a complaint that there were no scrums in the first half, and lamented that as a result this wasn't a real Rugby match.

Now, is it possible to be more stupid than this? Even if you love the scrum (and I played at Sydney University when the scrum was a religion there), you must surely recognise that scrums take place after someone has made a mistake - when the ball is knocked on, or when the attacking team can't win it at the breakdown. What did this moron want the teams to do? Knock on a few more times so that he could watch a few scrums?

Truly, some people are so stupid, they're lucky that breathing is automatic. In the interests of fairness, Jones did admit that Australia was the better side.

Give up on jones and the Murdoch press mun. He's about as knowledgable and insightful as spiro zavos. You think he hates sh? Despite his name he's been unloading his bile on wales and singing orcland uber alles for years. What's more worrying is there must be a market for his drivel

 

[ChargerWA]

There really is something in the water in WA

Yeah, sharks.

 

[It is what it is]

Yeah, sharks.

Too soon.

 

[BDA]

Weaknesses in Australian team. Second rows, props, blindside flanker and depth on bench. Teams like the orcs, nz and as are going to present problems for you.

Not that I don't think we can't improve in those areas but im not so sure those areas are particularly glaring weaknesses for aus. Are you suggesting they are areas of weakness for aus comparative to your own team in those areas?

Blindside Flanker - I thought Fardy outplayed his opposite number yesterday and looks to be a great fit for test rugby. Add Mowen and a returning Higgers and MMM and our Blindside stocks look strong.
Props - despite what you NH fans continue to suggest we have a decent stable of fairly experienced props and depth in that area has never been better. It's not a relative strength, but i wouldn't say its a weakness. On our day we have props that can out scrummage the world's best sides. Our weakness is consistency. we have a problem with consistency in the scrums (inconsistency all round was a major characteristic of the Deans era). If we can be more consistent in the scrums people wont be suggesting it is an area of weakness. I thought both the wobs starting props, particularly Slipper, outplay their opposite numbers in every aspect of play last night, even in the scrum (which there were only 4 or 5 of). I think the style of game McKenzie is employing requires comparatively more mobile props. In that regard he's shown an interest in preferring the more mobile (Slipper) to scrummaging power(Robinson)
- Second Row - The Horwill/Simmons second row partnership is becoming one of the more experienced partnerships in world rugby. On form they mesasure up well to the best.
- Depth on the Bench - To be honest I think our depth has never been better. On the weekend i thought our replacement front row was much better than the Welsh replacement front row. Keep in mind that the current team does not include the likes of Pocock, Higgers, Palu, Beale and O'Connor, Speight and MMM. If i had to name a world cup side today, i couldn't find room in the 23 for Beale, MMM, Mowen, Speight, Mogg, etc, etc..

I do agree that we need to keep improving our forward play if we want to be considered the best team in the world yes. But I dont think there is anything wrong with our players in those areas (save for Alexander - he must go) we just need to play better as a side.

In terms of 2nd row and Props expect to see at least 1 new lock blooded by Link next year and the continued development of Sio and Ryan

 

[ChargerWA]

Too soon.

Only if its a joke. It's not, it's just a fact.

 

[Brumbieman]

Spot on. Australia adapted better and quicker. My point is that in an insane way, this morning it worked as a spectacle. As long as you didn't think to much along lines go how did he miss that? Or why has he changed his mind on that rule? Or what the hell was that for, in the end both teams coped. Nearly. But I tell you what if this is some weird experiment and the international panel has decided to give only obvious scrums and do the rest via penalties, apart from Wales Ireland we are in for a dire 6n. The eye of mordor over in orcland will have noticed. Lancaster will be preparing his bombers to milk every tackle for an inevitable penalty. We will just have kick fest in mud come next year. What will make it worse is that attacking player holding on is seen as more heinous than defenders off their feet grabbing the ruck ball. Both sides lost attacking chances to the breakdown penalty rule seemingly for nothing. In second half Mowen was getting pinged for stuff he'd been allowed to do all first. The only thing Barnes was consistent in was he was wrong.

Mate, go to bed. Sleep it off, watch it again and then continue if you still feel like it.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Not that I don't think we can't improve in those areas but im not so sure those areas are particularly glaring weaknesses for aus. Are you suggesting they are areas of weakness for aus comparative to your own team in those areas?

Blindside Flanker - I thought Fardy outplayed his opposite number yesterday and looks to be a great fit for test rugby. Add Mowen and a returning Higgers and MMM and our Blindside stocks look strong.
Props - despite what you NH fans continue to suggest we have a decent stable of fairly experienced props and depth in that area has never been better. It's not a relative strength, but i wouldn't say its a weakness. On our day we have props that can out scrummage the world's best sides. Our weakness is consistency. we have a problem with consistency in the scrums (inconsistency all round was a major characteristic of the Deans era). If we can be more consistent in the scrums people wont be suggesting it is an area of weakness. I thought both the wobs starting props, particularly Slipper, outplay their opposite numbers in every aspect of play last night, even in the scrum (which there were only 4 or 5 of). I think the style of game McKenzie is employing requires comparatively more mobile props. In that regard he's shown an interest in preferring the more mobile (Slipper) to scrummaging power(Robinson)
- Second Row - The Horwill/Simmons second row partnership is becoming one of the more experienced partnerships in world rugby. On form they mesasure up well to the best.
- Depth on the Bench - To be honest I think our depth has never been better. On the weekend i thought our replacement front row was much better than the Welsh replacement front row. Keep in mind that the current team does not include the likes of Pocock, Higgers, Palu, Beale and O'Connor, Speight and MMM. If i had to name a world cup side today, i couldn't find room in the 23 for Beale, MMM, Mowen, Speight, Mogg, etc, etc..

I do agree that we need to keep improving our forward play if we want to be considered the best team in the world yes. But I dont think there is anything wrong with our players in those areas (save for Alexander - he must go) we just need to play better as a side.

In terms of 2nd row and Props expect to see at least 1 new lock blooded by Link next year and the continued development of Sio and Ryan

I respect your point of view. And Mckenzie has turned the team around. But...

Warbs is asked to play different role from fardy. So comparison not easy to make. Neither is a Richie mc caw.

Your props might be experienced but it's the wrong type of experience and sorry but they are right in nh, they're shit. Australia continues to rely on unsettling scrums to achieve parity via penalties. Not that it mattered last night as Barnes wrote scrums off the agenda but you were going backwards. Leaves you at mercy of refs. Dunno whose props were better last night. Too much else going on. but gethin was great

Second rows are not world class and liabilities. You need new ones.

Of the list of not included players I'd only want pocock over the incumbents.

Look the way Australia played last night was great. Great entertainment. But against monster packs like sa or England they will struggle and nz are class above everyone

 

[swingpass]

Too soon.

i liked it but it IS too soon

 

[Cardiffblue]

Mate, go to bed. Sleep it off, watch it again and then continue if you still feel like it.

Yup. Off to sleep til 6n starts. Not sure about the watch it again bit

 

[Brumby Runner]

Did anyone notice Rob Simmons pushing Quade at around the 63rd minute? What was that all about?

Think Quade had just given him a bollicking for one of his brain farts and Simmons took umbrage. Was Quade captain at the time?

 

[Scotty]

One of my favourite Cummins moments came after time was up when he turned and chased his opposite winger.
Despite the fact that his opponent had stepped into touch some 10 metres back, he still crunched him from behind further down the sideline.
You can't teach his competitiveness.

His goal is to hurt people in the tackle (legally). We haven't had a winger like that since Tune.

 

[lewisr]

The only position that concerns me at the moment is 13. But in saying that, it's only concern because in every other position we have 3+ test experienced players where as at 13 we 'only' have two.

Props: Robinson, Kepu, Alexander (he actually had a great impact off the bench last night), Slipper, Palmer (if he comes back), Paddy Ryan, Scott Sio.

Hookers: TPN, Moore, Hanson, S. Finger

2nd Row: Simmons, Horwill, Douglas, Fardy, Pyle (no experience but very promising)

Blindside: Fardy, Mowen, McCalman, Higgers

Openside: Gill, Hooper, Pocock (Arguably in the top 5 opensides worldwide)

8: Higgers, Mowen, McCalman, Palu

9: White, Genia, Phipps, Burgess (All now test hardened)

10: Cooper, To'omua, Foley, Beale - Who would've thought, after all that bullshit during the BIL tour about not having a suitable 10, that would would end up with 4 convincing flyhalves, all in great form (bar injured Beale)

12: Lilo, Harris, To'omua, Horne, McCabe, Godwin (cannot wait for Adonis to make his debut). Again, Some serious depth here.

13: Drani, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), CFS

Wingers: Cummins, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Speight, CFS, Betham, Folau, Mogg, Tomane, Turner - what a selection to make!!

Fullback: Folau (the undisputed king of the 15 jersey, a tier above the rest), Beale, Foley, Mogg

So much for lacking depth... I think we forget how many players were already injured or unavailable before we came on tour. I've probably missed some but our 2nd and 3rd 15s wouldn't be too shabby if you ask me!

 

[The Rant]

Did Warburton play the entire match? I only heard his name near the end.

Yep played 80. Outplayed hard.

 

[BDA]

I respect your point of view. And Mckenzie has turned the team around. But.

Warbs is asked to play different role from fardy. So comparison not easy to make. Neither is a Richie mc caw.

Your props might be experienced but it's the wrong type of experience and sorry but they are right in nh, they're shit. Australia continues to rely on unsettling scrums to achieve parity via penalties. Not that it mattered last night as Barnes wrote scrums off the agenda but you were going backwards. Leaves you at mercy of refs. Dunno whose props were better last night. Too much else going on. but gethin was great

Second rows are not world class and liabilities. You need new ones.

Of the list of not included players I'd only want pocock over the incumbents.

Look the way Australia played last night was great. Great entertainment. But against monster packs like sa or England they will struggle and nz are class above everyone

Firstly the comment about us going backwards is a plain lie. It was the wales front row that was under immense pressure at the first scrum and was the only team penalised in the scrum. Maybe you should watch the game again.


Secondly, if there is any truth to your comments than Wales are even more fucked than the Wallabies.

 

[I like to watch]

Having a different view to yours,doesn't make it a lie.

 

[Slim 293]

Just watching a replay now........

Definitely have to agree about Phillips acting like a twat.......

It would've been beautiful if he'd followed through with his brief confrontation with Fardy........

 

[Joe Blow]

Wales need to get rid of Phillips. He is a blight on their game.

Simmons has been a surprise this tour and I think he will be Ewen's first second rower chosen from this point on. It is easy to forget that he is only 23. He is filling out and starting to use his size in the game. Not to mention that his line out and ball handling prowess is quite good.
If he can continue to improve in those areas and cut out the needless penalties he will be one of the worlds premier locks come the next RWC.

 

[RoffsChoice]

All I really have to say after that great game is that in two of the last three games we have had no bad players. Everybody did their job, admittedly some better than others, and we put in our best 2013 performance as a result.

 

[swingpass]

Think Quade had just given him a bollicking for one of his brain farts and Simmons took umbrage. Was Quade captain at the time?

yes and yes.
it seemed to me it was for trying to offload in a bad position rather than tacking it into contact. we turned the ball over

 

[Brumby Runner]

Props: Robinson, Kepu, Alexander (he actually had a great impact off the bench last night), Slipper, Palmer (if he comes back), Paddy Ryan, Scott Sio.

Hookers: TPN, Moore, Hanson, S. Finger

2nd Row: Simmons, Horwill, Douglas, Fardy, Pyle (no experience but very promising)

Blindside: Fardy, Mowen, McCalman, Higgers

Openside: Gill, Hooper, Pocock (Arguably in the top 5 opensides worldwide)

8: Higgers, Mowen, McCalman, Palu

9: White, Genia, Phipps, Burgess (All now test hardened)

10: Cooper, To'omua, Foley, Beale - Who would've thought, after all that bullshit during the BIL tour about not having a suitable 10, that would would end up with 4 convincing flyhalves, all in great form (bar injured Beale)

12: Lilo, Harris, To'omua, Horne, McCabe, Godwin (cannot wait for Adonis to make his debut). Again, Some serious depth here.

13: Drani, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), CFS

Wingers: Cummins, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Speight, CFS, Betham, Folau, Mogg, Tomane, Turner - what a selection to make!!

Fullback: Folau (the undisputed king of the 15 jersey, a tier above the rest), Beale, Foley, Mogg

I think Toby Smith could be a real possibility at prop. Has already played plenty of Super rugby over the ditch. Outside chances include Salesi Manu and Ruan Smith.

2nd row - Rob Simmons has come on this tour but even in the Wales game had more than his share of the not so smarts. Needs to get this rubbish out of his game. Other contenders are Sam Carter and Skelton.

No 6/No 8 - Peter Kimlin and Luke Jones will be in contention and I very much hope Fotu Auelua comes back to his best. Think Ben McCalman will be lucky to survive to the RWC as better players come through.

Stirzaker might edge out either Phipps or Burgess by RWC time.

Still don't like Beale at 10 and doubt he will start there even for the Tahs if Foley is fit and well.

Rest of the backline options look pretty spot on but Pat McCabe must be in doubt due to his injury history.