Aussie Player Exodus

[Braveheart81]

the trend of younger players going is a disturbing one, although i agree that if they come home in 2 -3 years better than they left then thats a good thing, the big if is, will that actually happen ?

I think we're seeing it already.

Tala Gray, Matt Carraro and Dane Haylett-Petty all returned from stints overseas this year to play Super Rugby.

Of those, Carraro is in the latter part of his career, but Gray and Haylett-Petty should both have their best rugby ahead of them.

Any others?

 

[Lindommer]

Be nice if Gray had ANY rugby behind of him. How many minutes has he had in a blue jumper? Is he being lined up to replace Palu?

 

[Braveheart81]

Be nice if Gray had ANY rugby behind of him. How many minutes has he had in a blue jumper? Is he being lined up to replace Palu?

He got injured in the trials and wasn't fit at the start of the season. Hoiles and McCutcheon then surpassed him as the backup backrower. I think he would have played more if he'd been available from the start.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A player going overseas as a young journeyman will be on a fairly small wage compared to what an Ex-Wallaby would be on. Even if a lad goes overseas at 21 and later is selected to represent Samoa (or Tonga/Scotland or whatever) the future Club contracts would still be less than what a recent Ex-Wallaby could earn.

Kind of like going overseas immediately after graduation with a BA degree to get some experience before attempting your masters degree. The BA graduate gets entry level wages that are still better than what they could get back in Sydney, with minor annual increments for experiences in the job, but no major leaps in salary until they get post graduate qualifications.

While overseas they see Australian University Masters graduates swoop in and get massive salary packages far above what they are on as an experienced Graduate with no post gtaduate qualifications. In this scenario, the only way the young bloke can get a Masters qualification (and the big package that comes with) is by returning to Australia. Some people are happy to plug away on a decent wicket overseas, not bothering to take a risk and attempt the Masters programme, because they know that there are better candidates around that will qualify on the masters programme before them, or may even deny them entry into the masters programme entirely.

Is Australian Rugby better or worse off with the likes of Dan Parkes, Keleti Vaingalo, Sam Norton Night and co playing overseas? Some of our overseas based rugby players realise that they do not have any chance of ever making Wallabies (or even Super Contracts), so they stay. Good on them.

The lure of Wallaby Gold which is only available through Super Rugby will continue to keep ambitious lads here, and will attract ambitious lads home after a bit of OE.

Is there anyone overseas that we genuinely can not replace with a better player locally?

Sure we will lose some, just as we lose good teachers, accountants, nurses to foreign lands, but the challenge is for the ARU to keep a nice broad pyramid in the player base to replace the losses with equally talented young'uns.

That is the problem that ARU faces as it offloads the heavy lifting of junior rugby development to a small ( and ever decreasing ) number of Private Schools engaged in a predatory Arms Race.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

Be nice if Gray had ANY rugby behind of him. How many minutes has he had in a blue jumper? Is he being lined up to replace Palu?

Head along to Merrylands on Saturday if your close enough, see him line up against Naiyaravoro.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

A player going overseas as a young journeyman will be on a fairly small wage compared to what an Ex-Wallaby would be on. Even if a lad goes overseas at 21 and later is selected to represent Samoa (or Tonga/Scotland or whatever) the future Club contracts would still be less than what a recent Ex-Wallaby could earn.

Dan Parks made a career by going overseas (albeit a career that was much maligned by some), he will have earned a lot more during this period than he would if he has stayed, even if he became a wallaby.
A world-class or 50+ caps ex wallaby could earn a hell of a lot more than most but someone who gets a dozen or so caps then moves to Europe when 30+ will earn less in his career than a "young journeyman" that ends up getting capped by Tonga or Scotland.
The average wage for a project player at Glasgow or Edinburgh is more than a non-starting Super 15 contract here.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The average wage for a project player at Glasgow or Edinburgh is more than a non-starting Super 15 contract here.

Where do we sign?

Cheap Single Malt. Yum. Distillery visits. Ripper.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

You wouldnt wish playing for us on your worst enemy at the moment!

 

[qwerty51]

These are the exact type of players the NRC was suppose to stop going overseas.

 

[suckerforred]

And I think that it will qwerty. Once it is up and running.....

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

In the Edinburgh squad at moment I would have an educated guess that wages are:

Toolis brothers - 50k UKpounds each
Hilterbrand - 50+k UK
Atkins - 75k UK
Hart 150k UK plus Scotland top up fees

None of these guys would get near this here, probably none would get near a wallabies jersey either but better players are/will go to better clubs due to finances.

 

[Dave Beat]

A player going overseas as a young journeyman will be on a fairly small wage compared to what an Ex-Wallaby would be on. Even if a lad goes overseas at 21 and later is selected to represent Samoa (or Tonga/Scotland or whatever) the future Club contracts would still be less than what a recent Ex-Wallaby could earn.

Kind of like going overseas immediately after graduation with a BA degree to get some experience before attempting your masters degree. The BA graduate gets entry level wages that are still better than what they could get back in Sydney, with minor annual increments for experiences in the job, but no major leaps in salary until they get post graduate qualifications.

While overseas they see Australian University Masters graduates swoop in and get massive salary packages far above what they are on as an experienced Graduate with no post gtaduate qualifications. In this scenario, the only way the young bloke can get a Masters qualification (and the big package that comes with) is by returning to Australia. Some people are happy to plug away on a decent wicket overseas, not bothering to take a risk and attempt the Masters programme, because they know that there are better candidates around that will qualify on the masters programme before them, or may even deny them entry into the masters programme entirely.

Is Australian Rugby better or worse off with the likes of Dan Parkes, Keleti Vaingalo, Sam Norton Night and co playing overseas? Some of our overseas based rugby players realise that they do not have any chance of ever making Wallabies (or even Super Contracts), so they stay. Good on them.

The lure of Wallaby Gold which is only available through Super Rugby will continue to keep ambitious lads here, and will attract ambitious lads home after a bit of OE.

Is there anyone overseas that we genuinely can not replace with a better player locally?

Sure we will lose some, just as we lose good teachers, accountants, nurses to foreign lands, but the challenge is for the ARU to keep a nice broad pyramid in the player base to replace the losses with equally talented young'uns.

That is the problem that ARU faces as it offloads the heavy lifting of junior rugby development to a small ( and ever decreasing ) number of Private Schools engaged in a predatory Arms Race.

Correct on most fronts - BUT - and i know you are one of these people.

Lets not bury our head in the sand and say - let them go they are not a loss.

As most of us would agree having them play and lift the quality of rugby out here will simply lift our game.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think Qwerty has touched on the point, but hasn't really noted the issue, the shortfall in the inception of it, and the realisation of it keeping more lower tier talent here.

I'd like to think the creation of the NRC is a step in the right direction.

 

[Highlander35]

In the Edinburgh squad at moment I would have an educated guess that wages are:

Toolis brothers - 50k UKpounds each
Hilterbrand - 50+k UK
Atkins - 75k UK
Hart 150k UK plus Scotland top up fees

None of these guys would get near this here, probably none would get near a wallabies jersey either but better players are/will go to better clubs due to finances.

At least you signed Heathcote. That's a plus.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

At least you signed Heathcote. That's a plus.

We are building a decent core of young players, getting the right journeymen in to fill the gaps has been a challenge.

Ben Toolis will play for Scotland in a few years, Atkins will become an integral member of our tight 5 and get a go with the national team next year and Hart (I know hes a Kiwi but played in NSW) is soon to be Scotland and Edinburghs first choice SH.

 

[swingpass]

We are building a decent core of young players, getting the right journeymen in to fill the gaps has been a challenge.

Ben Toolis will play for Scotland in a few years, Atkins will become an integral member of our tight 5 and get a go with the national team next year and Hart (I know hes a Kiwi but played in NSW) is soon to be Scotland and Edinburghs first choice SH.

start your own endinburgh thread !

 

[Highlander35]

start your own endinburgh thread !

That's Unfair. An Edinburgh thread, or even a Scottish one would likely just consist of me and GDU talking back and forth, with the occasional contribution from NH Gaggers. It's not even like the USA/Canada thread, where people would go simply out of curiosity.

I prefer randomly hijacking threads such as these. I also like to to see GDU do it as well

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

start your own endinburgh thread !

Just answering your earlier question

the trend of younger players going is a disturbing one, although i agree that if they come home in 2 -3 years better than they left then thats a good thing, the big if is, will that actually happen ?

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Alofa aloha to La Rochelle next year

 

[Dave Beat]

I'd like to think the creation of the NRC is a step in the right direction.

Man I hop so, but we can't expect it to be the solution - still requires significant thought and contribution.
At the moment agents are picking out of super.

Would be a disaster if they think thank you we can now pluck them straight from NRC, might need a career change and become a players agent. Get to go more games and analyse games / players and make a buck out of it.