Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[TOCC]

EDIT : And in Kane Douglas'case, it is the thought (suggestion) that the ARU is considering shelling out up to $370,000 to get him out of his present contract that riles most, just as is the case if they consider shelling out for either Cooper or Genia.

Are they really the facts though, are the ARU considering paying $370,000?



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[KOB1987]

And plaese explain why this wouldn't include Luke Jones? One of the standout locks in Aus Super and can't make the squad. No argument in my mind that he deserves a spot before Mumm.

I agree though that if Mumm and Douglas play in next year's Super comp and carve up, then they are legitimate options for the Wallabies next year.

It is the appearance of favourable treatment towards Mumm over Jones that I think has most posters upset.

EDIT : And in Kane Douglas'case, it is the thought (suggestion) that the ARU is considering shelling out up to $370,000 to get him out of his present contract that riles most, just as is the case if they consider shelling out for either Cooper or Genia.

I can't explain the Luke Jones scenario, for whatever reason Cheika doesn't rate him though. Whether that's because he didn't think he was up to test standard based on his 2 performances, or if it's just the wideheld view that he's not big enough for test lock, and not dynamic enough for 6. By the same token I would have thought that Jones would have made it this far before Arnold. That there are still 5 locks in the final 31 reinforces that it is an area they certainly aren't neglecting and are unsure of how to settle.

The Luke Jones argument is exclusive to the Dean Mumm argument IMO.

As for shelling out $370K for Douglas, again that is media speculation. The official line is that he has to find his own way out of the Leinster contract. Paying out for ANYONE would set a huge precedent for the ARU..despite our views that they aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, they aren't stupid and they know this. Pulver particularly.

 

[KOB1987]

Have we signed a forwards coach yet, I heard the Tah guy was close but has there been an official announcement ?

Mario Ledesma has been appointed the set piece coach. I'm not sure if a separate forwards coach is being sought or whether that falls under his banner. I'd assume that Cheika's heaviest involvement would be with the forwards too.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Are they really the facts though, are the ARU considering paying $370,000?



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As I said, it is the thought that it might happen. Not saying it will. But do you really think it is likely that Kane would fork out $370,000 himself to get out? Would probably mean he was playing for nix for at least the first full year of a Super contract.

 

[Tomikin]

As I said, it is the thought that it might happen. Not saying it will. But do you really think it is likely that Kane would fork out $370,000 himself to get out? Would probably mean he was playing for nix for at least the first full year of a Super contract.

Maybe Luke Jones will swap with him and head North.. crying shame though

 

[KOB1987]

As I said, it is the thought that it might happen. Not saying it will. But do you really think it is likely that Kane would fork out $370,000 himself to get out? Would probably mean he was playing for nix for at least the first full year of a Super contract.

he'll be angling for a compassionate release..pregnant fiancee returning to Oz etc

 

[BDA]

I think it's pretty tough to stop a player from leaving if they don't want to stay. If the player's heart's not in it, why would you want them in the squad. Also it tends to reflect poorly on the club if they start holding players over a barrel.

If Douglas chucked a Jake White and just decided to return home tomorrow to play for an aussie side, would Leinster sue him? History would suggest it's unlikely

 

[SammyP]

he'll be angling for a compassionate release..pregnant fiancee returning to Oz etc

Which I personally believe are fair grounds for seeking compassionate release.
The problem is, it might not be seen in the best light given that ppl are only hearing about this now, after the ARU sought his release for international duties. As the manager said at the time, they were expecting him back after the WC so if compassionate release had been discussed prior then it definitely wasn't made known.
I have already seen a number of comments saying that the compassionate release plea is only so that he can come back, be eligible and the ARU/himself won't have to pay.
Not saying this is that case, only what the perception is, especially in the NH.
Whatever happens with his club in Ireland, personally I don't believe he should play for the Wallabies this year, given what I have heard about his form over there, plus back surgery that has him yet to resume full contact training.

 

[louie]

I just want them to beat the All Blacks. I couldn't give a stuff how just do it.

I can't take this anymore!

 

[Train Without a Station]

I can't explain the Luke Jones scenario, for whatever reason Cheika doesn't rate him though. Whether that's because he didn't think he was up to test standard based on his 2 performances, or if it's just the wideheld view that he's not big enough for test lock, and not dynamic enough for 6. By the same token I would have thought that Jones would have made it this far before Arnold. That there are still 5 locks in the final 31 reinforces that it is an area they certainly aren't neglecting and are unsure of how to settle.

The Luke Jones argument is exclusive to the Dean Mumm argument IMO.

As for shelling out $370K for Douglas, again that is media speculation. The official line is that he has to find his own way out of the Leinster contract. Paying out for ANYONE would set a huge precedent for the ARU..despite our views that they aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, they aren't stupid and they know this. Pulver particularly.

Every argument against Jones (size, previous test performances, etc) you could make for Mumm too. The difference is Jones is younger, a better athlete and still a stronger super rugby performer than Mumm ever was.

Yes Dean Mumm made the Aviva Premiership Dream Team. A team with hardly any test players in it because it seemed to have been skewed to the players who played the whole season, rather than missed a number of games on test duty.

Either that, or none of the test players for any nation were the form players in the premiership.

 

[TOCC]

As I said, it is the thought that it might happen. Not saying it will. But do you really think it is likely that Kane would fork out $370,000 himself to get out? Would probably mean he was playing for nix for at least the first full year of a Super contract.

No...

To me it sounds as though Kane has sought a release on compassionate grounds to return to Australia, his manager contacted the ARU to see if they would be interested in him, ARU/Reds have said they would be, IRFU/Nucifora has said they won't release them without a $370,000 release fee.. People are now speculating the ARU might pay a $370,000 release fee.

Kane could potentially have grounds for a compassionate release, it's not an unusual clause to be built in to contracts.



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[Gnostic]

Into this argument about the locks needs to come the tactical/mode of play that Chieka will be looking to play. I think we can rest assured that with the failure of the Tahs this year (which I feared would happen from the start due to their serious limitations in terms of kicking from hand) and the failure of the EOYT for the same reasons largely IMO, he will be looking for a far more balanced style of play, while not compromising the ability to play that physical game. I certainly hope that is the case, because to play the same game as the Tahs or the EOYT will lead to a pool stage exit at the RWC and no chance at all in the RC.

Perhaps Jones is seen as being suited to a fast open game, not the tight impact game that players like Skelton, Horwill and Mumm play. I say Mumm because even though I didn't watch him play at all in the Aviva comp. his last year in the Tahs saw him as the number one anti maul weapon along with Mowen at the Brumbies.

I do believe that the apparent inconsistencies in selection that we are identifying and arguing about can be linked to this.

It doesn't change what I see as a purely ethical choice though in the selection of Mumm over Jones. I do not support a win at all costs mantra and never will.

 

[KOB1987]

I should point out that I'm not a Mumm fan. I'd put as much weight into his selection in the Aviva Dream Team as I would the selection of a player in the Asteron Life Super Rugby Team of the Year - which is nought. I'd put more emphasis on his knowledge of some NH specifics and their international players and a hands on knowledge of the tactics used to nullify them. Plus @gnostic makes some good points above.

On the flipside I thought Jones had a belter of a season and I was as surprised as anyone that he was left out of the initial 40 player squad.

But I think it's as simple as this - Cheika had a look at Jones in gold last year and for reasons unknown didn't like what he saw, and now wants to have a look at Mumm 3 years on.

At the end of the day I don't care who the 4 locks are that end up taking us to the RWC as long as they have done enough to prove that they are our best choices. And as long as they fall within the legitimate rules of eligibility and loopholes aren't utilised to enable preferential treatment. Mumm's signed on to the Tahs, he has been playing rugby and playing well, and is entirely eligible as far as I am concerned.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm most interested as to which playmaker and which back 3 players are going to be left out of the 23 v the Boks! But that's for the other thread I guess..

 

[cyclopath]

Are they really the facts though, are the ARU considering paying $370,000?



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If it gets repeated enough, it must be so. I have not seen any credible evidence that the ARU has said that at all, only that they would consider a top up to help the Reds sign him.

 

[Groucho]

Maybe Luke Jones will swap with him and head North.. crying shame though

That New Fact will make a lot of people Very Angry!

 

[swingpass]

Maybe Luke Jones will swap with him and head North.. crying shame though

That New Fact will make a lot of people Very Angry!

nah

he loves playing with the Rebels and living with his mother-in-law

 

[Highlander35]

Maybe the Reds could release Simmons to Leinster in exchange. Or Neville and $100k.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Mario Ledesma has been appointed the set piece coach. I'm not sure if a separate forwards coach is being sought or whether that falls under his banner. I'd assume that Cheika's heaviest involvement would be with the forwards too.

My thinking also. I reckon we'll be in good hands with Ledesma, especially in the scrum. Cheika was also renowned in his playing days as a hard nosed forward and his coaching record suggests nothing different.

 

[Groucho]

My thinking also. I reckon we'll be in good hands with Ledesma, especially in the scrum. Cheika was also renowned in his playing days as a hard nosed forward and his coaching record suggests nothing different.

On the other hand, the Tahs were the weakest Aussie Supe scrum.