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The Fallout from RWC 2015

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Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
That was interesting.

Especially the Jonny May part, I have seen him do that on other occasions too, regardless that it is legal to jump for the try line, he is doing it from five out when there are still defenders on the way which surely makes it very hard to tackle him within the laws of the game.
It's worth pointing out that the Fijian did tackle May within the laws of the game after he (dangerously) jumped and was not cited for this incident as the article seems to be implying. He was cited for a tip tackle much earlier in the match.
 

Indi

Frank Row (1)
you are so right. It can be really brutal I heard about Bryce Lawrence and it makes me sick to think that he had to give up what he loves because of the actions of other people.
Whether we like it or not, top level International Rugby has oriented itself to a 4 year cycle based around the Rugby World Cup.

It is also big business with very significant amounts of money involved. IIRC NZL are not all that keen at hosting the circus again after the licence fees imposed by IRB for the privilege of hosting the event. It was $150m USD up front. Then there is all the costs associated with stadium upgrades, and the loss of revenue due to Olympic Games style central control of sponsor signage and opportunities surrounding the event.

Players and coaches can significantly increase or decrease their net worth based on performances at the RWC. Many players international careers revolve around a retirement after the next RWC. Some strangle the golden goose by trying to go to one too many RWC's.

Match Officials are frequently lambasted for their performances at RWC time. This may or may not be justified, but rational thought is often not foremost in the minds of many in the rugby community, be they supporters, "journalists", media personalities, or the commentariat. Some recover from this and move on to bigger and better things - yes I'm looking at you Wayne Barnes, others go the way of poor old Bryce Lawrence who is unlikely to ever step foot in a certain country.

Who will be the victims of fallout from RWC 2015?

While he has a commercially binding contract with the England Rugby Board until 2020, the pressure to find a scapegoat may see Stuart Lancaster and England Rugby amicably part ways before his contract is completed. He may be the first victim. That would be sad as I think he has potential to make a difference in English Rugby, which by all accounts has more intrigue, Machiavellianism and vested interests swirling around it than we have in the outpost that is NSW Rugby. Sadly underwhelming team performances are always the Coaches fault after all it is far easier and cheaper to sack and replace the one bloke in charge, than doing the same with the about 20 "non-swimmers" from the extended squad.

On the subject of rugby political interference, the Saffers probably make Will Carling's 57 Old Farts look like the amateurs that they are in that particular sphere. After the result against Japan, Heyneke Meyer must be like a dead man walking in the eyes of many "back home", and the knives will be out for many of the old age pensioners in his RWC squad, and that is before you even start to factor in whatever racial quotas the Bokke has to comply with.

Here in Australia, land of everything poisonous, vicious, and many things carnivorous, we eat our young when when World Domination expectations are unmet, particularly when that victim is currently resident across state lines, regardless of their birthright. The Wallabies are winning at the moment so all is calm, but the forces are marshalling in preparation for the inevitable, and it won't be pretty when it happens. Residents of the Tropical Cyclone prone north of Australia would recognise the false sense of security and calmness that coincides with the arrival of the eye of the storm. Unless Bill comes home on Flight QF1 from London and takes up residence in the trophy cabinet in HQ ARU, the eye of the storm will surely move and there will be fallout.

If you think we eat our young here, then go across the Tasman Ditch and see what happens there when the NZL Rugby Team fails in its quadrennial mission as has happened so often. The Minister of Finance and their Treasury Department plan the NZL budget and GDP forecasts around the results of the Dominion's No 1 Brand, especially after repeated failures of their government underwritten Team NZ America's Cup campaigns. You know the sort of thing - Sir Richie GOAT is too old and slow. Dan the Wizard Carter is too injury prone and never makes it to a RWC final. Stephen Duck Donald is off the grid whitebatiing somewhere. The bearings on the wheels of Kevin Old Man River Mealamu's zimmer frame have been rusted out. Julian The Bus Savea is more what the Septics call a "Short Bus", #ScrumStraghtWyatt Crockett and so on.

Warren Gatland has a perfect excuse for underperforming based on the the injury ward at Welsh Team Rehab, which some pundits have referred to as being busier than a casualty clearing station at the Battle of the Somme. It is an excuse that has worked in Queensland for Richard Graham. Will the Boyos accept that or ask some questions and scratch below the surface and ask some hard questions about the conditioning of players for the RWC. Some early shots have already been fired on social media and comparisons have been made to Stephen Dank and the Essenden AFL sports science programme.

Phillipe Saint-Andre and Les Bleus? Well, they are Les Blues and anything can and will happen and they don't really care.

And what about the draw and the so called Pools of Death. The performances of the minnows has shown that even the easier pools can be rather challenging to navigate out of if the eye is not on the prize and the A game left on the shelf. Is the draw made too early? Are there too many or too few teams? Is the distribution of "short turnaround" games fair and equitable?

There is a perception that the Judiciary, and the Match Officials are dealing more harshly with Tier 2 country players than Tier 1 team players. People will interpret what they want to interpret and align those interpretations with their personal prejudices and biases. As long as the injustices are being visited upon players from teams they don't support, it often matters little to them, but look out when an incorrect call is made on one of their own.

TL: DR. Who is for the chop and why, or why not?
 

Dewald Nel

Cyril Towers (30)
you are so right. It can be really brutal I heard about Bryce Lawrence and it makes me sick to think that he had to give up what he loves because of the actions of other people.


He had to give it up because he's an incompetent chop who should never be allowed near a rugby field again.

Very unprofessional. The only ref ever to be heard saying fuck - and then laughing at himself - over the ref mic.
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
I was a ref, once. AND I thought/said to myself during most rugby matches when I officiated, "WTF did you do that?". Fortunately there was never a mic anywhere near matches where I was at.....
 

Dewald Nel

Cyril Towers (30)
I was a ref, once. AND I thought/said to myself at most rugby matches where I officiated, "WTF did you do that?". Fortunately there was never a mic anywhere near matches where I was at...

Maybe you missed it.


He had to give it up because he's an incompetent chop who should never be allowed near a rugby field again.




Very unprofessional. The only ref ever to be heard saying fuck - and then laughing at himself - over the ref mic.
 

Hell West & Crooked

Alex Ross (28)
So I've been looking at the quarter final draw a lot harder now that we've beaten England now that the fear of us not making it out of the pool is now gone!!

I've noticed that if we beat Wales this weekend we will most likely draw Scotland in the quarters and could very well draw Ireland in the Semi's. Now please correct me if i'm wrong but that would mean the Wallabies would actually have to win a 'Grand Slam' just to make the final and then cap it off by most likely meeting the All Blacks in the final.. Epic.

Now i know that all RWC tournament wins are incredibly hard but a Grand Slam sweep of all 4 home nations would be incredible!

I am hoping Ireland get cleaned out before we have to play them, but if we do - and IF we beat them, i can see no reason why this would not be a genuine Grand Slam right? - first since 84 - and on consecutive weeks as well... anyhow - getting ahead of ourselves.. i am thinking of a rainy Newcastle night of the recent past....
 

Hell West & Crooked

Alex Ross (28)
I think people are being a bit overly down on England's performance. I wholeheartedly agree that they got their tactics wrong in that their game plan relied on having a dominant set piece. All they had was a dominant goal kicker.

They just lost to Wales after being ahead for most of the match and generally being in control. Wales' try was pretty fortunate and of the ball had bounced a different way they wouldn't have scored.

The Wallabies played their best test in about a decade to knock England off. Even then, there were only 7 points in it with 10 minutes to go.

I don't think things were a huge distance away from England being undefeated and Australia and Wales playing off for the other quarter final spot next weekend.

Struggling to believe this... Sounds so much like the English Media - and the players themselves - who seem to be sitting comfortable under the impression they were somehow "a little bit unlucky" or something...

Simple equations - 4 Pool Matches - they lost the only 2 against Tier One nations... Lost 2 - Deserve to be out of the Cup.

Not only did they fail to win either game (which they had privately believed were theirs for the taking) but actually lost the Australian Match by a record Score against the Wallabies at Twickenham. An all time record Loss...

I will be the first to admit that i have enjoyed it immensely, and do not feel my enjoyment of the tournament has been lessened even 1% by their absence - in fact - I would even venture it has been enhanced.

Good Luck to the Welsh this weekend - If they can get up, the other major annoyances of the tournament can also head for Heathrow.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Struggling to believe this. Sounds so much like the English Media - and the players themselves - who seem to be sitting comfortable under the impression they were somehow "a little bit unlucky" or something.

Simple equations - 4 Pool Matches - they lost the only 2 against Tier One nations. Lost 2 - Deserve to be out of the Cup.


I didn't say they don't deserve to be out of the cup.

The record win by Australia came off the back of arguably our best performance in a decade. I generally don't think England play much better or worse than that when we play them on the EOYT each year and most times they win.

They controlled the game against Wales for most of the match and gave it up at the end. The Wales try could have very easily not eventuated if the ball had taken a slightly different bounce.

Surely analysis of a team's performance boils down to more than looking at whether they won or lost?
 

Hell West & Crooked

Alex Ross (28)
Perhaps... and perhaps i am re-acting a general sense of annoyance that the English have found themselves yet again, a cosy little bolt-hole in a town called 'Unlucky' located in the 'State of Denial'...
 

Highlander35

Steve Williams (59)
Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of issues with the English side. But switch them with any other second seed and they make the quarters. They're in that block of the top 4 six nations sides and Argentina that's behind the Bokke, Wobblies and Blecks, but ahead of us, the Italians, the Japanese, the Fijians and the Samoans.

If they dump Robshaw, get Corsbisiero, Morgan and Billy fit, start Ford and some combination of Tuilagi, Joseph and Slade in the Centers, and maybe try and hypnotise Hartley into being less of a dumb twat, they'll be right up soon enough.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
I can't believe all the rubbish reading about how they should have put Woodward in instead of Lancaster.

England's campaign may be seen as disaster on results but we are talking about them losing a close game to Wales who are a very good rugby side and equally against Australia who are on the up and up.

And all the criticism of burgess seems way over done.....he did not lose them the RWC and do feel lot of traditional rah rah's determined not to see Burgess having any future in rugby because he is a ex League player. Frigging short sighted as players like Burgess are world class and considering how long he has been in rugby I think he is showing the great promise and future he has in the game if he sticks with it.

Whether Burgess does stay given all the BS media on him is probably doubtful which is a pity - as I think he could be a great rugby player in another 6-12 months....
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of issues with the English side. But switch them with any other second seed and they make the quarters. They're in that block of the top 4 six nations sides and Argentina that's behind the Bokke, Wobblies and Blecks, but ahead of us, the Italians, the Japanese, the Fijians and the Samoans.

If they dump Robshaw, get Corsbisiero, Morgan and Billy fit, start Ford and some combination of Tuilagi, Joseph and Slade in the Centers, and maybe try and hypnotise Hartley into being less of a dumb twat, they'll be right up soon enough.

Agree with all of this. England weren't/aren't as bad as people are making them out to be. They were ominous in NZ in 2014. At that stage they seemed to have all of the puzzle pieces falling in place. If they'd gone on the win that game against Wales - and let's face it they really should have - they make the finals. However they still lose to the Wallabies and then to the Boks.

If I was pointing a finger at one of their coaches it would be whoever was in charge of their scrum. The scrum is clearly the linchpin of the English team. Their game plan heavily relied on it being better than basically every other team. It appeared very strong in June 2014 and then slowly fell to pieces. Whoever is responsible for that should be sacked.

In the lead up to the world cup I was really pleased to see some of the players that missed out, specifically Corbs, Tuilagi and Hartley. All experienced campaigners, all world class. England seriously lacked experience. Add Corbs and Hartley to that front row and they probably hold their own against the Wallabies. With Tuilagi, again I harp back to their June 2014 tour where I was so impressed with them, he was an essential part of their attacking plan by getting them over the gain-line. Lancaster never found an able replacement. I think Burgess could have filled that roll if he'd had another 12-18 months of rugby behind him.

I'll add - I cant wait for England's tour of Australia next year!! I think those aforementioned guys will be back in the team and it'll be a cracking series. Also if Australia could managed to bring back Bill, it'll be one of the biggest June test series' in Australia for quite some time.
 

Hell West & Crooked

Alex Ross (28)
Its based on the fact that even the Best Young Players do not necessarily achieve the desired results, without the right management and coaching structure around them...

In any case, as to a 3-0 result Next Year, we will have to just wait and see - for me, I will be happy just to bask in the utter luxury of this return to Proper Rugby Tours... at last...

The results will be what the results will be.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Here's another RWC15 casualty. http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/115761

Joubers is gooooone after Joël Jutge does a Paddy O'Brien and hangs him out to dry.


Taking a leaf from the Chairman of the Board's "Guide to Sacking a Coach" manual, he issues the standard obfuscated "point of no return has been passed but we're not going to say tell you that yet" statement:
“Despite this experience, Craig has been and remains a world-class referee and an important member of our team.”

If Joubers doesn't hang up the Acme Thunderer after this, then it's probably back to club footy for him, with the only future International Appointments being the likes of Andorra vs Uzbekistan, Pitcairn Islands vs Niue Islands or similar.
 

Dewald Nel

Cyril Towers (30)
Here's another RWC15 casualty. http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/115761

Joubers is gooooone after Joël Jutge does a Paddy O'Brien and hangs him out to dry.


Taking a leaf from the Chairman of the Board's "Guide to Sacking a Coach" manual, he issues the standard obfuscated "point of no return has been passed but we're not going to say tell you that yet" statement:
“Despite this experience, Craig has been and remains a world-class referee and an important member of our team.”

If Joubers doesn't hang up the Acme Thunderer after this, then it's probably back to club footy for him, with the only future International Appointments being the likes of Andorra vs Uzbeckistan, Pitcairn Islands vs Niue Islands or similar.


Good. He's been shit all world cup. Our refs haven't had the best of world cups. Peyper was average as well.
 
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