Reds 2017

[Gnostic]

While I'm one of the suckers who keep paying year in year out and going to every game, I think any Reds fan have every right to walk away from the team.



It probably suggests intelligence rather than fickleness in support.



Remember when we pined to get rid of Carmichael, McCall and Graham? No one could have predicted you could find 3 less competent people in each role, but they did. Probably the biggest accomplishment in the last 4 years.



The losing isn't the problem for most (although Reds fans have always supported winner more, they will fill Suncorp winning 6-3 every week vs losing 45-43), the problem is that the organisation doesn't even try.



The Reds are at the point where the only thing that excites the crowd is the occasional try and the opportunity to pile on Frisby every time he box kicks.



I highly doubt Stiles will get the chop. Maybe he will re-discover his "passion"

for QLD and resign, but the presence of Stiles or any of these assistants next year means no finals football in 2018.



It's hard as a rugby fan, with everything else competing for your dollars, it's hard to say "sure, I'll buy memberships for my family" knowing full well that you'll be watching your beloved team lose each week in an empty stadium.



Paying $70 a match to watch the slop we are forced to endure is a big ask for anyone.



Fans are not owed results. That's part of sports. They are however, owed hope. You lay down your money and get the chance to see your team play and hopefully win, not get pumped by that Force team.

Add in a stagnant economy for most workers (largely -ive wages growth when compared to CPI and for a large proportion of the market disposable income is falling. Obviously this means luxury items come under pressure and when that luxury item has been a source of more angst than pleasure the decision is made simple.

As Redshappy said after the dour years of Link/Hickey/Foley (even though under link they won a lot and made plenty of finals, which shows that simply winning is not enough IMO) crowds declined and even a winning title run playing some scintillating rugby did not bring the crowds back. The habit and engagement has been broken and the fans aren't so much fickle as choosey.

As I said into this equation of very poor results, perceived lack of accountability, incompetence and in some cases allegations of corruption and mismanagement comes the stern fact of a declining middle class with less disposable income. To compete they not only have to improve consistent quality, but they will have to broaden the reach and penetration of their product (which like it or not requires breaking the Subscription TV only model). I used to think FTA was the only way, but more and more I think live streaming and perhaps even streaming of past games is the way to go.

Certainly what they need to do is engage with people who are already Rugby supporters and re-engage them with the professional product because there are a very large number who have zero engagement even though they are involved in the sport. Harvest the low hanging fruit to give sustainability and sticky customers then turn the attention to the growth markets.

As far as I am concerned Australian Super Rugby is dead, the corpse is on life support and getting wheeled around like "Bernie" in that 90s movie with about as much future.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I have been a Reds and Wallabies supporter for many years going to most wallaby games (certainly in Australia and frequently overseas as well) and virtually all home games for the Reds and quite a few interstate.

The passion that is within me is dissipating at both levels.

I think I will redefine myself, to maintain some level of sanity, to being a "fair weather" fan. Hope I don't have to wait too long

 

[amirite]

If you're not paid money for it and are purely a supporter, there's no shame in enjoying greatness and begrudging mediocrity.

 

[Thinker]

Serious Q: I'm sure there would be someone else, but I'm not great on assistants back more than 10 years.

Would Stiles be the most losingest coach in Super Rugby history? (ie as an assistant and HC)

I can't imagine anyone else has been involved in 80+ Super Rugby losses and still coaching.

 

[The torpedo]

Serious Q: I'm sure there would be someone else, but I'm not great on assistants back more than 10 years.

Would Stiles be the most losingest coach in Super Rugby history? (ie as an assistant and HC)

I can't imagine anyone else has been involved in 80+ Super Rugby losses and still coaching.

Matt O'Connor?

 

[RedsHappy]

Serious Q: I'm sure there would be someone else, but I'm not great on assistants back more than 10 years.

Would Stiles be the most losingest coach in Super Rugby history? (ie as an assistant and HC)

I can't imagine anyone else has been involved in 80+ Super Rugby losses and still coaching.

Serious Q No 2: other than our QRU, is there a RU anywhere else in this world that has persisted with elite coaches (i.e. Graham and Stiles) with this loss record for this long a period?

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^^
Don't really know but I would be gobsmacked if there was

 

[The torpedo]

Serious Q No 2: other than our QRU, is there a RU anywhere else in this world that has persisted with elite coaches (i.e. Graham and Stiles) with this loss record for this long a period?

Western Force.

EDIT: based off W-L records (22-1-52 v 25-3-48 in the 2013-2017 time period)

 

[RedsHappy]

Western Force.

EDIT: based off W-L records (22-1-52 v 25-3-48 in the 2013-2017 time period)

And the how-did-it-all-end points are looking eerily similar.

 

[The torpedo]

And the how-did-it-all-end points are looking eerily similar.

Such as?

 

[todd4]

Western Force.

EDIT: based off W-L records (22-1-52 v 25-3-48 in the 2013-2017 time period)

And yet you looked at us with envy and lured both of them away from us.

 

[upthereds#!]

they will keep stiles because they can't afford to pay out another coach. HOWEVER - it's the assistants they need to get some grizzled older veterans who have been around the block a couple times. At least one of them. Let one of the existing ones go back to being Qld u20 and NRC Head Coach.

I'd say Joe Barakat should be hot property as a forwards coach if the force go under. Super experienced, but unfortunately we already have stiles and it looks like a chance fisher will go back to brumbies. Tahs should get him, or even the Wallabies on a fulltime position. Ledesma is a scrum coach. Period.

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^
The Reds have the playing stock.

They need a "Motivator"

 

[swingpass]

Serious Q: I'm sure there would be someone else, but I'm not great on assistants back more than 10 years.

Would Stiles be the most losingest coach in Super Rugby history? (ie as an assistant and HC)

I can't imagine anyone else has been involved in 80+ Super Rugby losses and still coaching.

Rebels will be serious contender if they re-appoint McGahan.

 

[RedsHappy]

Some long-awaited comments (to the media of course, not to we fans) re the QRU Chairman's assessment of the outstanding performance of his and his board's 2017 Reds' coaching group assembled with meticulous care after an extensive world-wide search (extracts below from today's The Australian, by Wayne Smith).

It's very encouraging that the QRU has just discovered that some experienced Assistant Coaches could possibly be a good idea. No one else had even thought of that back in 2016.

Of course, a la Rod McCall and his teacher's pet Graham, the Chairman has no intention of questioning his pick for Reds HC (especially after such impressive results this year in terms of no of tries scored vs 2016's tries). That would be entirely inappropriate.

Perhaps though it's the players problem all-up as Frawley thinks they perhaps should have some 'pay-for-performance' elements in their reward structure. A nice neat idea for driving higher standards and alleviating pressure on the coaches group who as we know are 'filthy' at 'the team's' performances.

"Meanwhile, QRU chairman Damian Frawley said while he did not believe pointing the gun at the head coach was the answer to the Reds’ miserable performance this season — they are 14th in the 18-team competition — Queensland clearly needed some experience in their coaching panel.​

​

First-time head coach Nick Stiles was supported this year by defence coach Jason Gilmore and attack coach Shane Arnold, with Brad Thorn the contact coach.​

​

“We’ve got to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater but we told the coaches there would be a new level of accountability that we would hold them to,” Frawley said.​

​

Depending on what happens in Melbourne, the Reds might look at bringing McGahan, a Queenslander, back home in a coaching mentoring role.​

​

Or, if not him, Laurie Fisher or Brian Smith could step up.​

​

The players, too, will be scrutinised and Frawley will look to introduce some element of pay-per-performance into the Reds’ salary structure.​

​

“It’s not something we could do on our own and we can’t go off the reservation, but there needs to be a variable element in how we remunerate the players,” Frawley said.​

​

“It’s the one industry where everyone talks about performance, yet the players get paid no matter what.”​

 

[Strewthcobber]

​

The players, too, will be scrutinised and Frawley will look to introduce some element of pay-per-performance into the Reds’ salary structure.​

​

“It’s not something we could do on our own and we can’t go off the reservation, but there needs to be a variable element in how we remunerate the players,” Frawley said.​

​

“It’s the one industry where everyone talks about performance, yet the players get paid no matter what.”​

RUPA will surely have an opinion in that one........

 

[swingpass]

​

​

Depending on what happens in Melbourne, the Reds might look at bringing McGahan, a Queenslander, back home in a coaching mentoring role.​

just do it, ill pay the airfare.

 

[The torpedo]

I vote that everyone go into 2018 with 0 expectations whatsoever as well

 

[RedsHappy]

just do it, ill pay the airfare.

swing, completely agree.

You might have seen my posts over the years severely doubting McGahan's HC credentials and capability and if he pitches up for the QRU we will know for sure that the next QRU bankruptcy (last one late 2009) just got that bit closer.

 

[The torpedo]

swing, completely agree.

You might have seen my posts over the years severely doubting McGahan's HC credentials and capability and if he pitches up for the QRU we will know for sure that the next QRU bankruptcy (last one late 2009) just got that bit closer.

Which (somewhat ironically) brought about the 2010-2012 period which one could describe as......mildly successful