2012 IRB Junior World Championship

[It is what it is]

Our boys busted their backsides but were outmuscled too often in contact, when it mattered.
Whether it's Nucifora coaching or whoever, wouldn't it be reassuring to see our U/20's and Senior Wallabies playing to the same structure and style of play. Certainly Nucifora should have been able to execute this from his position across ARU coaching.
From what I've seen over the past 10 years, NZ Schools, NZ's Baby Blacks and the AB's have this consistency in game style approach.

 

[Bardon]

I think the quality of kicking for the posts in the tournament as a whole has been pretty poor. This makes Bowside and Redshappy's point even more relevant as decent kickers would have as much of a positive impact as poor kickers at full test level have a negative impact.

 

[Bardon]

The best thing they could do is to have an U20 comp of any description prior to the JWC.

Can't understand why there isn't an U20s The Rugby Championship (or U20 TriNations in previous years). There's an U20 6Ns and it would make sense to reflect the senior comp in the SH.

It would even provide a testing ground for changes to the format of it's big brother, including potential inclusion of other nations in the future. While the Rugby Championship is restricted by TV deals on the timing of new entrants, any new countries could be introduced at U20 level potentially years before the real thing.

 

[PaarlBok]

Bokkies finally playing a good game of rugby. Knew if they sort out their 1st phase they will beat any team in the competition with their classy backline. My MOTM was Piet "Spiere" du Toits grandson Steph. Our Paarl Gym schoolboy Pollard had his first good game of rugby in the tournament and playing with confidense on this level. I never doubt his ability of kicking out of hand or place kicking or his distributing (the try from the Cheetah winger he did all year for his school) but finally he look like doing the physical stuff (tackling and attacking the line) at this level. He sure is going to be the next Johan Goosen, maybe even bigger in SA Rugby. Hopefull Small Smith isnt that bad injured but Dawie have already called on another young midfielder Cobus van Wyk, x Paarl Gym class of 2010 after his Matie Varsity Cup final partner Howard was injured against England.

Looking forward to the final and they dont come bigger then Bok vs Blacks.

 

[PaarlBok]

Small Smith out of the final
Sport24

Baby Boks lose Small-Smith

2012-06-18 15:44
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William Small-Smith (Gallo Images)
Cape Town - The Junior Boks announced on Monday that centre and stand-in captain William Small-Smith has suffered a knee injury and has been ruled out of Friday’s IRB Junior World Championship final 2012 against New Zealand.

The midfielder injured ligaments in his side’s 35-3 semi-final win over Argentina on Sunday and will be out of action for at least three months. His place in the squad will be taken by Dean Hammond from Western Province.

Small-Smith captained the side in their last two games after regular captain Wiaan Liebenberg was ruled out injured.

Hammond was in South Africa’s original squad for the tournament, but suffered a hamstring injury in their final warm-up match and was ruled out because of that.

“We are again in a very fortunate position that we can bring in a player that has been with the team for a long time and can slot in immediately,” head coach Dawie Theron said.

“We feel for William, as he was a real stand-out and proved a very inspirational leader, but injuries are part of rugby and we can only wish him a speedy recovery.”

The other injury concern is wing Paul Jordaan, who has a hamstring strain. Theron said a final decision on him would be made later in the week following a fitness test.

Small Smith a great player but luckily he call in Kobus van Wyk last week in Howards place who was picked at the start and had to withdraw due to injury. He and Pollard know each other well playing for Paarl Gym. Also have the option if Jordaan came through to play him in his normal place of 13 and pick that Cheetah speedster on the wing.

Our mid year schools holidays start on friday and expecting no less then 30,000 at the final.

 

[Rob]

Agree. People talk about the usual selection poiltics and there were also many 18 y.o. (underage) players chosen in this squad.

On the coaching side, they should move Nucifora out and be doing what NZ do. Have a panel of three and rotate promising coaches in. Get some preparation matches (against the kiwis or others) before the tournament, too.

Have been following this forum but only just got to see replays of Aust 20s against France (the first time) and versus the argies. Followed this with watching Sth Africa vs Argentina. Massive difference in standard between Aust and SA.

I offer the following thoughts on Aust

Front row technique appears to be average at best backed up by smallish second rows leading to poor scrum - lucky we didnt play SA who smashed the Argies in the scrum who in turn smashed us in the scrum - difficult to be competitive in a tournament like this without a solidy platform.

Difficult to be competitive in lineouts when at times we played two short second rowers.

Half and fiveeight really let us down at times. Dont know much about Frisby and Godwin but didnt set the world on fire.

Lack of penetration/speed in the backline. Since when is Dargs a winger? Use to be a pretty good 6. Faalavvaau is also not a winger.

Why do coaches think that all backline positions are interchangeable. Frisby played half and fullback. We had other halves on the winger and at fullback. There are subtelties between positions that can take a lifetime to master yet we think it is like rugby league where anyone plays any position.

I am also not convinced that players who spend most of the year playing 7s can easily make the transition back to 15 aside - they are very different games.

Re selections, there is an inherent selection process in club rugby (particularly in Sydney and Brisbane) whereby over a substanital period of time numerous coaches (colts and grade) observe and decided on who offers the most to their teams. Those who do, rise up the ranks, out of colts to first grade. For Aust 20s coaches to ignore this and select colts over first grade players is at worst arrogant and at best stupid.

Finally, re coaching, I agree with others that it appeared poor with little structure or game plan.

After all this, I do not question the commitment of the players and they certainly put their bodies on the line over and over again - unfortunately they were not good enough.

 

[twenty seven]

Rob - well written. Agree whole heartedly with the league, club and sevens comments. Wonder if they (coaches/selectors) refer back to who played in the school boys tournaments when, at 20, they could have 2 years of club rugby under their belts, which sorts out the men from the boys so to speak.

 

[PaarlBok]

Jordaan and William Small Smith is SA 7s players. The Argentinia Bokkies match isnt comparable to when Aus played them. We played them a few times before the tournament and knew exactly what needs to be done to beat them. You only have to look to the Bokkies from their first game to the semi to realise that all the SANZAR teams went heavily undercook compare to the 6 Nations teams and the weather wasnt helping on day 2. Luckily the two teams in the final is in the same position regarding this and the final should be a real treat.

 

[Lee Grant]

Rob

An excellent post that.

I have written a blog on the Oz U/20 team and mentioned some of the matters under discussion - and replied to some of the posts on the blog. Rather than repeating all I said I will give the link here:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/u20-rwc-post-mortem-was-coaches-cattle/#comment-241474
.

 

[p.Tah]

Do you have to be under 20 to play at the JRWC? The reason I ask is that Shaun Adendorff from South Africa who is nominated for the player of the tournamnet is 20 years old (DOB: 28/05/1992). He is only just 20 when the tournament started, but what's the cut off?

http://www.irb.com/jwc/teams/team=3442/player=45536/index.html

 

[PaarlBok]

Do you have to be under 20 to play at the JRWC? The reason I ask is that Shaun Adendorff from South Africa who is nominated for the player of the tournamnet is 20 years old (DOB: 28/05/1992). He is only just 20 when the tournament started, but what's the cut off?

http://www.irb.com/jwc/teams/team=3442/player=45536/index.html

Think it works from Jan - Dec and not when the tournament starts. If they are 19 on the 1st of January they qualify as u20 players.

Thats the way the SA age groups work.

 

[ACR]

Think it works from Jan - Dec and not when the tournament starts. If they are 19 on the 1st of January they qualify as u20 players.

Thats the way the SA age groups work.

Yep same as NZ. Most of them are all 20 years old by tournament start (well about half). NZ also prioritises older players because they only want each player going to the tournament once, to expose as many players as possible to the experience each year. I noticed both NZ and SA both only have one 18 year old. Compare this to Australia, 10 of them are currently 18 years old.

 

[p.Tah]

Yep same as NZ. Most of them are all 20 years old by tournament start (well about half). NZ also prioritises older players because they only want each player going to the tournament once, to expose as many players as possible to the experience each year. I noticed both NZ and SA both only have one 18 year old. Compare this to Australia, 10 of them are currently 18 years old.

... And which teams are playing in the final... And which team is playing for 7th? Hmmmmm

 

[PaarlBok]

Handre Pollard fewer have hit the SA press today. Even hit the Stormers site after their two year Pollard sleep.

News24

Bulls snare Baby Boks pivot

Cape Town - The Bulls have signed Paarl Gimnasium and Baby Boks flyhalf Handre Pollard until 2015, according to the Beeld newspaper.

According to reports, the contract was signed as far back as last year already.

Pollard, 18, will captain the WP Craven Week side at next month's tournament.

Stormers site
http://www.thestormers.co.za/article.asp?id=1440781

WP Rugby Statement on Handré Pollard- Wednesday, June 20, 2012
A report on the front page of the Cape’s Daily Afrikaans Newspaper, Die Burger, today claiming WP Craven Week captain and SA U20 flyhalf, Handré Pollard, has signed for the Bulls and that Province has been scrambling to sign the player since a report recently appeared in Sport 24, was today rubbished by WP Rugby.
Pollard Junior has been part of the WP Rugby set-up from a young age, having been identified and represented WP at U13, U16 and U18 levels. Last year already he was invited by senior coach Allister Coetzee and trained with the Stormers in November, as they prepared for this year’s Super Rugby competition, something that had not been done before with such a young player. Pollard Senior also captained the U18 WP Craven Week side, himself having a proud history with the Union.
WP Rugby has held numerous meetings with Mr Pollard senior dating back to 11 August 2010 to secure the player’s services for senior rugby in the Province. Mr Pollard Senior has recently confirmed to WP Rugby and is on public record in the newspapers, that Pollard Junior has not signed any contract and that they will speak to WP Rugby, his home province, before any such decision is made. He has, however, confirmed that he has offers from the Bulls and Sharks. In terms of the SARU rules and regulations, those Unions would need to notify WP Rugby and afford the home Union the opportunity to meet or beat their offers, before any deal could be concluded.
“Die Bulle asook die Sharks het albei goeie aanbiedings aan Handré gemaak, maar ons het nog geen besluit daaroor geneem nie.”
“Die WP-unie het ‘n belangrike rol in die ontwikkeling van Handré as speler gehad en ons het groot waardering daarvoor.”
“Maar ons gaan eers wag tot Julie voordat ons ‘n besluit sal neem. Handré moet nou eers sy fokus op rugby hou.”
“Ek is ‘n stoere ondersteuner van WP-rugby en stap ‘n lang pad met die unie. Ekself was in 1978 ook kaptein van die WP se Cravenweekspan en dit is werklik vir ons iets besonders dat Handré ook aangewys is as kaptein van die WP-Cravenweekspan. Maar aan die einde van die dag is dit hyself wat die finale besluit sal moet neem waar hy sy rugbyloopbaan wil voortsit.”
Mnr. Andre Pollard, pa van Handré – Die Burger – Vrydag 1 Junie 2012.
WP Rugby takes Mr Pollard Senior at his word and looks forward to continue to negotiate in good faith to try and retain the services of Pollard Junior in his home province, a process which started in 2010.

Scary to think the laaitie is suppose to writing exams. He and his familyies lives wont be the same again.

 

[Spewn]

Have been following this forum but only just got to see replays of Aust 20s against France (the first time) and versus the argies. Followed this with watching Sth Africa vs Argentina. Massive difference in standard between Aust and SA.

I offer the following thoughts on Aust

Front row technique appears to be average at best backed up by smallish second rows leading to poor scrum - lucky we didnt play SA who smashed the Argies in the scrum who in turn smashed us in the scrum - difficult to be competitive in a tournament like this without a solidy platform.

Difficult to be competitive in lineouts when at times we played two short second rowers.

Half and fiveeight really let us down at times. Dont know much about Frisby and Godwin but didnt set the world on fire.

Lack of penetration/speed in the backline. Since when is Dargs a winger? Use to be a pretty good 6. Faalavvaau is also not a winger.

Why do coaches think that all backline positions are interchangeable. Frisby played half and fullback. We had other halves on the winger and at fullback. There are subtelties between positions that can take a lifetime to master yet we think it is like rugby league where anyone plays any position.

I am also not convinced that players who spend most of the year playing 7s can easily make the transition back to 15 aside - they are very different games.

Re selections, there is an inherent selection process in club rugby (particularly in Sydney and Brisbane) whereby over a substanital period of time numerous coaches (colts and grade) observe and decided on who offers the most to their teams. Those who do, rise up the ranks, out of colts to first grade. For Aust 20s coaches to ignore this and select colts over first grade players is at worst arrogant and at best stupid.

Finally, re coaching, I agree with others that it appeared poor with little structure or game plan.

After all this, I do not question the commitment of the players and they certainly put their bodies on the line over and over again - unfortunately they were not good enough.

I agree with this analysis. I would add that the squad like at schoolboys is picked from teams that regularly win. It's easy to look good when the opposition is poor. Eg picking Sydney Uni players. This is not a Sydney Uni criticism. It is an observation that sometimes the players you want are those who are used to scrapping hard against better teams. Tough players come from adversity not winning every week.

I would also ask questions of the whole ARU identification process and talent identification system run by it. If this result is a function of several years work of identification and development, then is it a depth issue or system problem. The idea that those identified at under 15 or 16 continue to be the best is a nonsense (one or two wingers). Also, the biggest are not always the best (eg one or two front rowers).

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A good first up performance against a rather ordinary Scot outfit may have been contributed to our young'uns downfall. Coaches, players (and Foxtel watchers) may have started to think that they would win the rest of the games by simply turning up.

That rather naive approach is not untypical of schoolkids who have been pampered and fawned upon by coaches and parents through their school years and not had been matured for long enough in the real world of clubland, where previous reputations count for nothing.

Disappointed that the U20's selectors, coaching, admin and support staff seem to have also fallen for or at least tolerated this "past glories" stuff.

Oh well......Roll on 2013 Jnr RWC. See if we have learned anything from this campaign.

Well done to the young saffers and darknesses in making the final. Should be a cracker.

 

[It is what it is]

A good first up performance against a rather ordinary Scot outfit may have been contributed to our young'uns downfall. Coaches, players (and Foxtel watchers) may have started to think that they would win the rest of the games by simply turning up.

That rather naive approach is not untypical of schoolkids who have been pampered and fawned upon by coaches and parents through their school years and not had been matured for long enough in the real world of clubland, where previous reputations count for nothing.

Disappointed that the U20's selectors, coaching, admin and support staff seem to have also fallen for or at least tolerated this "past glories" stuff.

Oh well..Roll on 2013 Jnr RWC. See if we have learned anything from this campaign.

Well done to the young saffers and darknesses in making the final. Should be a cracker.

Nothing like the wake up experience young pampered schoolboys get when they join grade.
Every club has a lower grade nutter who delights in testing their mettle at training.
They get no priorities in parking, locker space (or peg), shower access or water bottles and laughed at when they ask for strapping at training.
Interestingly, for some of them, they get dropped for the 1st time in their rugby careers.
There are poor crowds watching and your pre-match meal is breakfast not lunch.
You have to earn respect, not expect it and play against men with a mix of anger and hate for the jumper you wear, all without the adulation of hundreds of schoolmates or the protection of your parents and teachers.
Reminds me of my favourite saying......"If you've never been knocked on your arse, you'll never know how good it feels to get back up"

 

[PaarlBok]

SA Rugby

Junior Springboks coach Dawie Theron made two injury-enforced changes to his starting team that will play New Zealand in the final of the IRB Junior World Championship 2012 at DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium on Friday and also included fit-again captain Wiaan Liebenberg to lead the team from the side of the scrum.
Liebenberg, who missed the final pool match against England due to a wrist injury, came off the bench in the semi-final against Argentina and showed no sign of discomfort in the 35-3 win. He replaces Shaun Adendorff who moves to the bench.
Paul Jordaan and William Small-Smith, who suffered a hamstring and knee injury respectively against Argentina, will be replaced by Raymond Rhule on the wing and Kobus van Wyk at outside centre. Rhule scored two tries in the win over Argentina after replacing Jordaan, while Van Wyk will play his first match of the tournament.
“Kobus has been part of our training squad from the start and missed selection because of injury, so it is good to have him back in the team and playing in the final. He slotted in well and I expect him to be an influential player in the final,” Theron said.
“I feel for Shaun, as he was one of our stand-outs in the tournament, but with William also out injured, we needed to have our captain back and on the field from the start. Shaun will hopefully make a significant contribution from the bench.”
Theron expressed satisfaction with the team’s final preparations.
“We are ready for the final. It will be a massive occasion and a huge honour for the team to contest a final in front of a home crowd. We worked very hard to get to this point and we now want to finish the campaign on a winning note.”
According to Liebenberg, the team can’t wait for the match.
“It is a dream final for us. Any match between South Africa and New Zealand is always something special and for us to play the defending champions in the final is the best challenge we could have faced. We respect New Zealand, but we have committed ourselves as a squad to become the first South African team to win the Junior World Championship. We are not backing down on that.”
SA U20 team vs New Zealand (Friday 22 June 2012, kick-off 18h45):
15. Dillyn Leyds (Western Province)
14. Raymond Rhule (Toyota Free State)
13. Kobus van Wyk (DHL Western Province)
12. Jan Serfontein (Vodacom Blue Bulls)
11. Tshotsho Mbovane (DHL Western Province)
10. Handrè Pollard (DHL Western Province)
9. Vian van der Watt (MTN Golden Lions)
8. Fabian Booysen (MTN Golden Lions)
7. Pieter Steph du Toit (KZN)
6. Wiaan Liebenberg (Vodacom Blue Bulls, captain)
5. Ruan Botha (MTN Golden Lions)
4. Paul Willemse (MTN Golden Lions)
3. Maks van Dyk (KZN)
2. Mark Pretorius (MTN Golden Lions)
1. Steven Kitshoff (DHL Western Province)
Reserves:
16. Franco Marais (KZN)
17. Allan Dell (KZN)
18. Oliver Kebble (DHL Western Province)
19. Braam Steyn (KZN)
20. Shaun Adendorff (Vodacom Blue Bulls)
21. Abrie Griesel (Vodacom Blue Bulls)
22. Tony Jantjies (Vodacom Blue Bulls)
23. Travis Ismaiel (Vodacom Blue Bulls)

 

[Informer]

SA Rugby

"Liebenberg, who missed the final pool match against England due to a wrist injury, came off the bench in the semi-final against Argentina and showed no sign of discomfort in the 35-3 win. He replaces Shaun Adendorff who moves to the bench."

Liebenberg must be one hell of a player as I thought Adendorff was one of the best on the park last game. Aggressive, fast, strong and great postionally. Exactly what the Australian boys lacked, mongrel efficiency.

 

[PaarlBok]

"Liebenberg, who missed the final pool match against England due to a wrist injury, came off the bench in the semi-final against Argentina and showed no sign of discomfort in the 35-3 win. He replaces Shaun Adendorff who moves to the bench."

Liebenberg must be one hell of a player as I thought Adendorff was one of the best on the park last game. Aggressive, fast, strong and great postionally. Exactly what the Australian boys lacked, mongrel efficiency.

Big surprise. With Small Smith injured the coach need his captain back, probably the reason.