2012 IRB Junior World Championship

[Lee Grant]

Jock Merriman a late inclusion in the Oz squad. Hard to see where he is going to fit in and how he rates above Donlan given his form with Uni colts this year. Dargaville on the wing? Big calls by the selectors, lets hope they got it right.

13 Mali Hingano was not on the final list so he must have got an injury. Merriman may seem to be an odd choice to replace him but there are 3 other fellows who can play outside centre; so the original balance of the team was probably imperfect to start with.

It does no harm to have a 3rd scrummie along on a tour and they must have liked Merriman playing flyhalf after Godwin went off last Friday in the trial, after playing 9 for most of the game.

The squad probably could have done with another winger instead of 13 Hingano from the outset. Yep - Dargaville played on the wing in the trial but he won't play there in the main games, and will be a backup 12.

CFS and Crook will be the wingers with Holland at fullback. I wouldn't like to see an injury in that back three in the money games, though Frisby is versatile.
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[Bruce Ross]

Merriman may seem to be an odd choice to replace him but there are 3 other fellows who can play outside centre; so the original balance of the team was probably imperfect to start with.

It does not harm to have a 3rd scrummie along and they must have liked Merriman playing flyhalf after Godwin went off last Friday in the trial after playing 9 for most of the game.

Young Merriman has been switched between 9 and 10 for Uni Colts, LG. He looks to me to have a bigger future at half back and he told me that is where he prefers to play.

 

[emuarse]

If I were a betting person I would put everything I had on that Gill will not be going to the JWC.

Is that barrel a good fit? Ha ha

 

[PaarlBok]

Schoolboy Pollard all excited about his biggest challenge

http://www.dieburger.com/Sport/Rugby/SMS-in-klas-gee-tiener-nuwe-lewe-20120601

Got texted in his classroom to be a Bokkie and look like he havent signed anything just yet.

http://www.dieburger.com/Sport/Rugby/Jong-Bok-ster-gaan-nie-Bul-word-20120601

 

[qwerty51]

Young Merriman has been switched between 9 and 10 for Uni Colts, LG. He looks to me to have a bigger future at half back and he told me that is where he prefers to play.

I have never been a big believer in a Uni bias to player selection but is it never more evident than players like Melrose and Merriman getting selected over the two Rats of Killingworth and Donlan who are playing 1st grade footy and going quite well at that level.. Melrose and Merriman will be so far out of their depth it ain't funny, they are colts players ffs and we're leaving grade players at home. Makes zero sense.

 

[twenty seven]

T

I have never been a big believer in a Uni bias to player selection but is it never more evident than players like Melrose and Merriman getting selected over the two Rats of Killingworth and Donlan who are playing 1st grade footy and going quite well at that level.. Melrose and Merriman will be so far out of their depth it ain't funny, they are colts players ffs and we're leaving grade players at home. Makes zero sense.

They are not the only 2 either. Same for others in the team. Both Uni players coming back from injury, only played colts.

 

[I like to watch]

I have never been a big believer in a Uni bias to player selection but is it never more evident than players like Melrose and Merriman getting selected over the two Rats of Killingworth and Donlan who are playing 1st grade footy and going quite well at that level.. Melrose and Merriman will be so far out of their depth it ain't funny, they are colts players ffs and we're leaving grade players at home. Makes zero sense.

What about Sam Jeffries, plays 20 min ALL year and makes the squad.
I make no comment on his ability, just making the point that had he played with any other club he would have zero chance of touring. given his playing record over 2 years, together with his resume.

 

[Lee Grant]

Melrose played on the openside in the trial a week ago. He worked hard but is not big enough in such a tournament to play 6 or 8 in the money games - and neither is 17 y.o McMahon. Killingworth is a specialist 7, works at least as hard and is arguably a harder player. I can't work out why he is not the back up for Gill.

Donlan, like Killingworth, has been playing in the Ones in Grade and has been one of the Rats best players. I thought the other scrummies: Frisby (Reds) and Lucas (Oz 7s), would be named in front of Donlan because they have played on a bigger stage, but it must have been galling to see Merriman get the nod when a berth became available.

Still, the selectors had a good look at the lads in a couple of camps, and in the case of Merriman, he can play 10 as well as 9; so you have to trust that they know what they are doing.
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[Lee Grant]

What about Sam Jeffries, plays 20 min ALL year and makes the squad.

Read about him earlier in the thread. I can only conclude that he is a project as an up and coming TH lock. He looked OK in the trial last week and the locks in the U/19 game last year, Holloway, Resier and even Cummins, were wanting in physicality against the younger U/18 England players.

Worth a punt unless there is a proven grunt lock that I have forgotten.
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[I like to watch]

Both Frisby and Lucas could play positions other than 9, there was no need to pick Merriman over Donlan based on versatility.After all there must be 6 or 7 variations at least, that would be preferred to Merriman at 10.

 

[I like to watch]

Read about him earlier in the thread. I can only conclude that he is a project as an up and coming TH lock. He looked OK in the trial last week and the locks in the U/19 game last year, Holloway, Resier and even Cummins, were wanting in physicality against the younger U/18 England players.

Worth a punt unless there is a proven grunt lock that I have forgotten.
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Lee the point was not about whether he was worthy of selection, he was clearly selected based on representations from Uni about how well he had been training. No other club has this sort of influence.
As you say he looked OK, not OMG he must be picked, which is what you would expect if he had been picked out of Colts in his only 20 minutes of football for a year.

 

[qwerty51]

He has played more than 20 mins of football...

 

[Lee Grant]

Point taken Iluv, though how a player would be picked just on representations of a club is beyond me. Maybe he got into the camps on scuttlebutt but they must have liked what they saw.


I said earlier in the thread that this team was a bit young and the backrow was light.

14 out of the 28 players, which is near enough to half, (it was a joke Bruce), will be eligible for next year, and a couple of those can play in 2014 also. (Compare this to 3 back from 2011.)

If they had an U/19 team, 5 of the 7 front-rowers would be eligible (including the whole of the 2011 Oz Schools starting front row); so it is obvious that they will be stronger and play better in 2013 than in 2012.

However, if I had to pick a unit of the 2012 U/20 team that will perform best as senior players, I would go for the front row. It's hard to judge at that age I know, but watch these lads down the track as there are some goodies.

As for the light backrow: of the 5, only blind side flanker, Curtis Browning, is over 100kgs, and he is a newbie in the position.

Let's hope they can play older and bigger than they are.
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[twenty seven]

Both Sams have only come back from injury and not played much rugby.
Last year they wanted to go with boys who were 20, this year it's diff. I have never been big on focusing which club they come from but it's all a bit off.
My fear is that Aus rugby is always addressing our game plan for how NZ played last year.

 

[Bowside]

Back row selection will be interesting. I think a backrow of Browning, Gill and Cusack looks very strong, with McMahon on the bench covering all 3 positions.

In time I think McMahon will end up a 6, and browning will end up at 8. I havent seen enough of cusack to comment but you all seem to think he is a prospect at 8.

 

[Bruce Ross]

As far as I am aware, and I'm in a reasonably good position to know, there would have been no representations from Sydney Uni with regard to getting its players into the Under 20 squad. In fact the Club's interests might have been better served in the opposite direction. When you have at least 30 of your Club's players involved in Super 15 Clubs or the Australian Sevens program you start to get a bit thin in terms of playing ranks.
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[Lee Grant]

In time I think McMahon will end up a 6, and browning will end up at 8. I havent seen enough of cusack to comment but you all seem to think he is a prospect at 8.

That could be right. I always thought Browning would be a senior 8 since I saw him play for Qld Schools Ones in the 2nd row at age 15, 3 years ago. As was the case with his BSHS team mate CFS, who was the same age, my jaw dropped when I found out how old he was.

8. Cusack was hard and skilful in the trial game, but I note that he is only 95 kgs. I say "only" because of the likely weights of his opponents in the important U/20 matches. Although he plays bigger that 95kgs he is also a natural 8 and needs to put on 10kgs to play the position in pro rugby.

McMahon is listed as only 91kgs - but so is Gill, though the Reds have him at 96kgs. I don't know where this chap will play as a senior player, but he hasn't had his 18th birthday yet so he can put on a bit of pork to be a pro 7.

But neither he, nor Melrose, seem to be natural 7s from what I have seen of them. Neither appear to be likely to become big enough men to play 6 or 8 as senior players either, except in Grade, and could end up being notters. Let's see though.

If they want a bit of weight in the Oz U/20 back row they could use Holloway at 8. He has played the position before and could be needed playing against the bigger IRB packs - at least to start in games.

Perhaps the light weights of the backrowers won't matter beans during the tournament, but half my interest in watching the Oz U/20 team is for their future career.

Incidentally, the front rowers don't have a 'not heavy enough' problem - even pocket rocket hooker Hugh Roach, who has passed the 100kgs barrier, and seemingly with proportional strength. I doubted that he could do this but should never have questioned his burning desire to play pro rugby and his use of the gym to do so. There is a lot of Waugh in him - and a smidgeon of TPN madness as well.

Watch this space on young Hugh.
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[country rugby]

I Just can't get my head around some of the selections, I have tried but keep wondering why you would leave experienced premier grade players behind to make way for these youngsters, who I have no doubt are good footballers but not necessarily better that those who have been neglected. These young blokes, as others have been saying, will get another crack next year and there are a couple in there who I believe are over-rated and are selected because of the club who has pushed the most. I wish the team well but I feel for the experienced lads left to wonder what is ahead for them. I know it is a step towards a super 15 contract by being selected in this under 20's so for those not selected the road will be a lot tougher because I believe that once you get to the top level in rugby, the best players are not necessarily selected for the top teams. Whether it is managers or club officials who do the pushing I am not sure but you see it right up to Wallably level.

 

[churchills cigar]

For what it's worth I would like to chip in here.
I am not privy to the effects Sydney Uni have on ARU selection policy, however I can only assume from experience that they are at least significant.
Having been involved in the past I can say that squad selection is rarely based on the 'best players' .
Anthony Eddy and more so David Nucifora select their squad based on two major factors;
A. Tacit influence of Super franchises in putting 'their' players to the forefront and
B. defence

Forget all that you see and read about how a player is, how flashy or what great promise they have, if they have any defensive weakness they will not get a go. They are not so much interested in scoring tries as stopping them being scored against the team, defence is everything to these two coaches, you will find attack very stifled.
As for super influence, it is an absolute given for example that Frisby will be starting as will if not all the super aligned players. If not starting they will be bench, no matter what better players there may be.
Eg. Last weekend Seutini had an ordinary game at 15 but he won't be discarded.

I fully expect to see players like Foley, Faalavaau Holland and Crook to make way for these players. Forget that they are better attackers, they won't be there, in fact I doubt those four will get too much game time at all, if any for the entire tournament.
I read earlier a report by Lee Grant on certain players doing well enough last Friday and he was correct, but we don't select the team, two puppets of the system do and when mcKenzie says he wants Frisby starting so it shall be.
Expect the backline against Scotland to be Lucas, Godwin, Latinupulu, Sautia, Dargeville, Faalavaau and Frisby. All have some s15 alignment whereas the others, possibly greater talented players don't.
Not a great attack my any measure but dictated by politics and defence.

 

[en_force_er]

I don't there's anything maniacal about picking a player because he defends well, there are less good defenders in this world than good attacked in my opinion.

Obviously your selection should be a judgement of both skill sets but picking on defence makes sense.