AIC Rugby 2012

[Saecom]

It would be unfair of me say I have a "finger on the pulse of Ashgrove rugby". All I have written is based on me watching their 1st XVs for a long time and conversations with people connected with Ashgrove.

Something younger readers might not know is that ex-Ashgrove players used to mostly go to Brothers club and that GPS only moved to Ashgrove in the 1980s (I think) from Finsbury Park.

I think something that Ashgrove has benefited from greatly is having boarders. I imagine lots of the country kids arrive with a league background but plenty of enthusiasm and they get plenty help from that. Maybe boarding is not as strong as it used to be there?

I would not be able to comment on how much GPS club stuff helps Ashgrove as I just don't know. It seems TheBigDog might be better able to comment?

 

[TheBigDog]

xxxx

Thats a great point xxxx. The Marist Ashgrove Community and the GPS Rugby club have lots of similar members (both parents on boards and coaches) and yes, players do tend to play their club rugby at GPS. I must note though that I have seen a trend in recent years of some Marist players looking elsewhere because they haven't been able to make the Div 1 team at GPS despite playing A's at Marist. This is obviously due to the fact that GPS draws a number of players from other schools, for juniors this is notable as Brisbane Boys Grammar, BBC and Terrace (in my experience).

The playing together at club and school connection though does start to weaken once the boys reach senior yrs 11 and 12. I know the Marist Policy in past years (i'm guessing it would be the same now) was that if a player was eligible for 1st XV selection they were not permitted to play any form of club rugby until after the school season had finished. Therefore the majority of boys played together up until around under 15's, at which stage school became a focus for most in contention for higher honors.

You have actually touched on something xxxx that never came to mind until now though. I have always found the coaching at GPS (in both junior and senior club) to be very professional and really pushed the players harder than school training. Players would usually be down at the club doing pre-season work (fitness etc) before anything was being done at school. This put the boys who played at GPS (I am only using the example of GPS as I only have knowledge of them, i'm sure many other clubs do pre-season as well) at an advantage in that when the school trials started they were already match fit and had been doing work for possibly months before anyone else. Maybe the decline in Marist Ash rugby has something to do with the GPS connection and a change in what goes on there.

 

[Galloper]

As an Ashgrove Old Boy and ex-Jeeps player my understanding/recollection was that Jeeps move to Yoku Road in 1977 had a lot to do with attracting ex-Ashgove students to play for Jeeps in the senior ranks. This had instant success and the connection has strengthened considerably since then to the point where you're surprised if an Ashgrove kid goes somewhere else to play Colts.

Ashgrove Juniors did not merge with GPS until 1983, so the juniors connection with the school was largely (co)incidental but it has certainly been mutually beneficial an it will no doubt continue for very obvious reasons.

 

[xxxx]

I would suggest there is a direct correlation between the success of schools( Aic and Gps) and clubs. eg the high the % of boys playing club together preferably RU the more successful the school teams.
That's why I would love to know what the break up of school Player are playing outside of school.
Can I assume that 90 % of Ash boys play/ed at Gps in there development years? and hence the success of Ash and I guess Gps

 

[Viss]

From experience as an Old Boy of Lauries in 2008, I used to love going out to Pats, the support for the home team there is unrivalled (maybe Marist too?) Pats are literally 10x harder to knock off at home, the boys lift in front of the home fans every time they run on to Curlew.

 

[Galloper]

Saecom

I think that some of that history is disputed, but does it really matter - can't see the issue ever arising again.

That would no doubt be right about the dominant Ashgrove side of 76 in which Moon played 13 ans went on to play for Aust Schools that year. The 75 side was probably just as good, with Moon playing 13 outside Paul Mills at 12.

In 75 Millsy scored 18 tries in 8 TAS games, played for Aust Schools against NZ and was the most talented player I have seen come through Ashgrove ( Anthony Herbert a close second). However, he suffered a series of knee injuries from age 18 onwards and palyed his entire senior career on one leg. Still played many games for Qld and in multiple premierships for Brothers, but I would have loved to have seen what he could have done in the absence of injury.

In 1979 Ashgrove beat both Grammar and BSHS about 30-0 each in pre-season trials, and those teams were co-premiers with Terrace that year in GPS - that was certainly one of the best Ash sides ever.

 

[don't_go_latho]

From experience as an Old Boy of Lauries in 2008, I used to love going out to Pats, the support for the home team there is unrivalled (maybe Marist too?) Pats are literally 10x harder to knock off at home, the boys lift in front of the home fans every time they run on to Curlew.

Couldn't agree more, Pats at home on old boys day is a wonderful and intimidating atmosphere. It would be nice to see a grandstand put up at Runcorn one day for the rugby season. Outside Ashgrove, Lauries have the best spirit and cheering in the AIC and having a grandstand setup simular to Pats would definitely benefit Lauries when playing at home.

 

[erossi93]

So on the topic of atmosphere at games, what are the best games of the year in terms of the atmosphere? Marist Vs. Lauries? Villa Vs. Lauries? Padua Vs. St Pats? Iona Vs. Villa? Just some examples.

 

[bsparx]

Maybe the coaching at Ash has dropped. From what I heard from old boys during the 2000 to 2007 era, coaching was more desciplined, and structured. It's think the coaching team changes next year, which is great for the school rugby but a punch in the face for the players including the current 1st players who'l find out what it takes for an undefeated premiership.

 

[Saecom]

Saecom

I think that some of that history is disputed, but does it really matter - can't see the issue ever arising again.

That would no doubt be right about the dominant Ashgrove side of 76 in which Moon played 13 ans went on to play for Aust Schools that year. The 75 side was probably just as good, with Moon playing 13 outside Paul Mills at 12.

In 75 Millsy scored 18 tries in 8 TAS games, played for Aust Schools against NZ and was the most talented player I have seen come through Ashgrove ( Anthony Herbert a close second). However, he suffered a series of knee injuries from age 18 onwards and palyed his entire senior career on one leg. Still played many games for Qld and in multiple premierships for Brothers, but I would have loved to have seen what he could have done in the absence of injury.

In 1979 Ashgrove beat both Grammar and BSHS about 30-0 each in pre-season trials, and those teams were co-premiers with Terrace that year in GPS - that was certainly one of the best Ash sides ever.

Re the GPS entry history - I'll take your word for it - as I said I was relating simply what I was told ...

Re the 75, 76 and 79 Ashgrove teams - again I am sure you are correct that they were all very strong ...

 

[macdaddy]

since this thread has largely turned into the history of the competition I'd like to put this out there. In the AIC era (1998-Present)
who were the top 5 best/ most dominant players to play in the competition. Not necessarily what they achieved afterwards but during their time at 1st XV

 

[Galloper]

Re the GPS entry history - I'll take your word for it - as I said I was relating simply what I was told ...

Re the 75, 76 and 79 Ashgrove teams - again I am sure you are correct that they were all very strong ...

There was a thread on here somewhere a year or so ago where I think it was"Jets" related his understanding from a GT perspective.

You could probably find it if you were interested, but he was suggesting that the vote against Ashgrove's entry into GPS was reasonably decisive.

 

[Saecom]

since this thread has largely turned into the history of the competition I'd like to put this out there. In the AIC era (1998-Present)
who were the top 5 best/ most dominant players to play in the competition. Not necessarily what they achieved afterwards but during their time at 1st XV

OK Macdaddy now you will have opened a can or worms .....

I have looked through the Australian Schoolboys Rugby website and come up with this list of AIC players that have represented at "schools" level to keep it to 1st XV level - apologies in advance if I have missed any - I have added a brief note if I remember anything about them ...

1998 Australian Schoolboys
J.Ahlberg (Ash) - ??
R.Doherty (Iona) - very fast outside back, great sprinter
A.Elphinstone (Ash) - great backrower
P.Sheedy (Ash) - Halfback (I think?)
D.Heenan (Ash) - lock - more later
M.Tabrett (SLC) - wonderful fullback - tragically passed away several years ago .. RIP
A.Mathison (Ash) - prop

1999 Australian Schoolboys
L.Doherty (Iona) - great lock / backrower
D.Heenan (Ash) - Capt - AIC only Australian Schools Capt?
R.MacDonald (Ash) - ??

2000 Australian Schoolboys
C.Cronk (SLC) - flyhalf & centre at school

2001 Australian Schoolboys
D.Mitchell (SPC) - Fullback - awesome player

2003 Australian Schoolboys
L.Bibo (SLC) - centre / winger - elusive

2004 Australian Schoolboys
A.Tallon (Ash) - centre?

2005 Australian Schoolboys
R.Setu (SEC) - winger?

2008 Australian Schoolboys
J.Ambrosini (SLC) - outside back

2009 Australian Schoolboys
M.Felsman (Iona) - ??
K.Auva'a (SEC) - ??

2011 Australian Schoolboys
S.Malolua (Ash) - half

There are a bucket of other good players who have made Autralia 'A" teams over this period ...Zillman, Mogg, Johnson, Mains, Walls, Tessman, Rynders, KLassen etc etc

Pushed to choose one it would come down to Luke Doherty (Iona) or Daniel Heenan (Ash). Doherty was probably a bit more skilful and faster around the field however Heenan was HUGE, tough and very intimidating. He played about 5 schools tests and captained the Australian Schoolboys. I have not seen another player of his calibre in AIC .... both of these guys also made Australian Schools when they were in Year 11 I think ...

My top 5 ....(OK 6..)

1. Heenan
2. Doherty
3. Drew Mitchell (bear in mind he was sometimes a bit of a lone hand)
4. Liam Bibo
5. Cooper Cronk / Mathison (best prop I have seen in AIC)

Let the arguments begin ....(and again apologies if I missed someone)

 

[Marbig]

Jared Waerea-Hargreaves played carried a fairly useless Iona team in 2006, was pretty good!​

 

[xxxx]

wow 1998 standouts, would it be great if the AIC could do that more regularly

 

[macdaddy]

OK Macdaddy now you will have opened a can or worms .....

I have looked through the Australian Schoolboys Rugby website and come up with this list of AIC players that have represented at "schools" level to keep it to 1st XV level - apologies in advance if I have missed any - I have added a brief note if I remember anything about them ...

1998 Australian Schoolboys
J.Ahlberg (Ash) - ??
R.Doherty (Iona) - very fast outside back, great sprinter
A.Elphinstone (Ash) - great backrower
P.Sheedy (Ash) - Halfback (I think?)
D.Heenan (Ash) - lock - more later
M.Tabrett (SLC) - wonderful fullback - tragically passed away several years ago .. RIP
A.Mathison (Ash) - prop

1999 Australian Schoolboys
L.Doherty (Iona) - great lock / backrower
D.Heenan (Ash) - Capt - AIC only Australian Schools Capt?
R.MacDonald (Ash) - ??

2000 Australian Schoolboys
C.Cronk (SLC) - flyhalf & centre at school

2001 Australian Schoolboys
D.Mitchell (SPC) - Fullback - awesome player

2003 Australian Schoolboys
L.Bibo (SLC) - centre / winger - elusive

2004 Australian Schoolboys
A.Tallon (Ash) - centre?

2005 Australian Schoolboys
R.Setu (SEC) - winger?

2008 Australian Schoolboys
J.Ambrosini (SLC) - outside back

2009 Australian Schoolboys
M.Felsman (Iona) - ??
K.Auva'a (SEC) - ??

2011 Australian Schoolboys
S.Malolua (Ash) - half

There are a bucket of other good players who have made Autralia 'A" teams over this period ...Zillman, Mogg, Johnson, Mains, Walls, Tessman, Rynders, KLassen etc etc

Pushed to choose one it would come down to Luke Doherty (Iona) or Daniel Heenan (Ash). Doherty was probably a bit more skilful and faster around the field however Heenan was HUGE, tough and very intimidating. He played about 5 schools tests and captained the Australian Schoolboys. I have not seen another player of his calibre in AIC .... both of these guys also made Australian Schools when they were in Year 11 I think ...

My top 5 ....(OK 6..)

1. Heenan
2. Doherty
3. Drew Mitchell (bear in mind he was sometimes a bit of a lone hand)
4. Liam Bibo
5. Cooper Cronk / Mathison (best prop I have seen in AIC)

Let the arguments begin ....(and again apologies if I missed someone)

Firstly, I find your posts to be the most knowledgeable and least biased. I find it interesting to see where the best of this competition ranks amongst each other. AIC was clearly a lot stronger during its early years, but I do think recent times have produced a more competitive competition rather than 2-3 teams blowing out everyone else. surely the unpredictability of the competition is a lot more entertaining and interesting. In terms of opening a can of worms this will really set off the ashgrove purists. Lets not beat around the bush here, Ashgrove were virtually a juggernaut up until 2007 and no one ever questioned recruitment or rugby scholarships, but over the last few years the question keeps coming up and is quickly refuted aggressively by just about anyone who wore blue and yellow. Let's face it, on these threads has anyone ever accused lauries or iona or villa etc. of recruiting? I am hoping someone will share light on the situation or do tongan boys somehow by the mysteries of the universe end up in an ashgrove uniform.

 

[Saecom]

Firstly, I find your posts to be the most knowledgeable and least biased. I find it interesting to see where the best of this competition ranks amongst each other. AIC was clearly a lot stronger during its early years, but I do think recent times have produced a more competitive competition rather than 2-3 teams blowing out everyone else. surely the unpredictability of the competition is a lot more entertaining and interesting. In terms of opening a can of worms this will really set off the ashgrove purists. Lets not beat around the bush here, Ashgrove were virtually a juggernaut up until 2007 and no one ever questioned recruitment or rugby scholarships, but over the last few years the question keeps coming up and is quickly refuted aggressively by just about anyone who wore blue and yellow. Let's face it, on these threads has anyone ever accused lauries or iona or villa etc. of recruiting? I am hoping someone will share light on the situation or do tongan boys somehow by the mysteries of the universe end up in an ashgrove uniform.

If you search my posts you will know I am not an Ashgrove lover (or hater for that mind). I honestly do not know if Ashgrove offer scholarships or recruit at the moment. I also won't comment about whether St Edmunds or St Peters or anyone else does this at the moment as I simply will not speculate when I do not know ...

I would be VERY confident however that Ashgrove (or any other AIC schools) DID NOT offer scholarships in 1998 or thereabouts ... someone connected with Ashgrove told me at the time that when Nudgee saw how good Heenan was in 1998 (when I think he was in Yr 11?) they tried to get him over there but I believe he was a boarder and all the family had to Ashgrove etc .. so he stayed at Ashgrove and I am sure paid fees like every other AIC player ....

 

[macdaddy]

If you search my posts you will know I am not an Ashgrove lover (or hater for that mind). I honestly do not know if Ashgrove offer scholarships or recruit at the moment. I also won't comment about whether St Edmunds or St Peters or anyone else does this at the moment as I simply will not speculate when I do not know ...

I would be VERY confident however that Ashgrove (or any other AIC schools) DID NOT offer scholarships in 1998 or thereabouts ... someone connected with Ashgrove told me at the time that when Nudgee saw how good Heenan was in 1998 (when I think he was in Yr 11?) they tried to get him over there but I believe he was a boarder and all the family had to Ashgrove etc .. so he stayed at Ashgrove and I am sure paid fees like every other AIC player ....

I am not trying to be cynical and there was a time in the AIC when this question simply was not brought up. But I'm not going to gloss over it like so many other posts who praise the coaching staff or run away from the question by claiming envy or jealousy. It is interesting though that those 2 other schools were the first that popped into your head. Those are the three schools that are contesting this years premiership and TAKE NOTHING AWAY from those players in those teams cause a lot of hard work is put into premiership seasons. But I just wonder have the additions to these first xv teams (with the exception of peters, cause its blatantly obvious what happens when yours first xv team is the only team to record a win on the day. I simply will not buy any peters diehard trying to tell me any different) or have some of these boys just moved to the area and have come to the school based on their rugby tradition/ future direction (no sarcasm) . I am just interested to know if Ashgrove have realised a lot of top players that would go to the school, or are already at the school are being poached by GPS schools. So to maintain their strong tradition (and negate the huge pressure from their old boys, many of whom are letting their frustrations be known on this thread) they are adding players here and there to match their needs.

 

[pick and go]

Firstly, I find your posts to be the most knowledgeable and least biased. I find it interesting to see where the best of this competition ranks amongst each other. AIC was clearly a lot stronger during its early years, but I do think recent times have produced a more competitive competition rather than 2-3 teams blowing out everyone else. surely the unpredictability of the competition is a lot more entertaining and interesting. In terms of opening a can of worms this will really set off the ashgrove purists. Lets not beat around the bush here, Ashgrove were virtually a juggernaut up until 2007 and no one ever questioned recruitment or rugby scholarships, but over the last few years the question keeps coming up and is quickly refuted aggressively by just about anyone who wore blue and yellow. Let's face it, on these threads has anyone ever accused lauries or iona or villa etc. of recruiting? I am hoping someone will share light on the situation or do tongan boys somehow by the mysteries of the universe end up in an ashgrove uniform.

every two years john eales funds a scholarship for a tongan boy from a marist school to attend the shcool. they have had salopa, tonga maafu and tevita maka. As for the indigenous boys, that is backed by macquarie bank, if anyone remembers isaac rokeby in 2009 u14A for marist, most talented child sportsman i have honestly ever seen. Due to his misbehaviour he had to leave the college, the macquarie scholarships are still at the school and the boy who is on the scholarships is not even playing rugby

 

[macdaddy]

every two years john eales funds a scholarship for a tongan boy from a marist school to attend the shcool. they have had salopa, tonga maafu and tevita maka. As for the indigenous boys, that is backed by macquarie bank, if anyone remembers isaac rokeby in 2009 u14A for marist, most talented child sportsman i have honestly ever seen. Due to his misbehaviour he had to leave the college, the macquarie scholarships are still at the school and the boy who is on the scholarships is not even playing rugby

Good to see some clarification and can put this matter to bed, just couldn't stand the blissful ignorance of those who let pride stand in the way of honesty. If it happens to be in the form of a 115KG one-man wrecking crew one year that's fine, and if its a non-athlete another year that's fine also as it's a great opportunity for education. Finally, how long has the Eales one being running for and has there been a recipient who has not represented the 1st XV?