Argentina v Australia, Mendoza 4/10/14

[barbarian]

Jeez we looked tired. With the benefit of hindsight I reckon Link might regret not starting a few more fresh players. We were gone before half time, especially in the tight forwards.

 

[Ulrich]

All true. Sadly.
I'm starting to agree re Hooper, but I cannot easily see who to make captain, who will likely be on the park most / all game?
He seemed to have lost control of the team and his relationship with the ref there.
It's not an easy solution.

Adam Ashley Cooper should be your captain in my book. He's the one player I really respect from Australia. I'm not saying the rest are shit but they don't command the respect he does (for me).

It's about time Horwill stepped up to retake his place as he's captain material as well.

Still, sometimes things seem more gloomy than they are. A few weeks ago it looked gloomy for SA and a few weeks before that we almost lost to Wales at home. I hope and believe Ewen and Australia just had a bit of a rough patch. I don't think the guy is a bad coach at all so I'm not sure where the problem lies. Are the players not good enough? I can't accept or believe that. Is coaching a national side that much different from coaching a Super Rugby team? I can't answer that because I have not done either.

 

[qwerty51]

Kepu looked fucked after 5 minutes, was very telling.

 

[barbarian]

God bless you for saying that. I am a Reds fan, so I admit to anti-Tah bias, but on this occasion I can't even say it is my bias. Hooper is not a captain, and it is also affecting his game, so lose-lose. Not sure who the alternative is, but seriously I my nan would be better at ref management.

Hooper's problem isn't his management of the ref, it's his management of his team-mates. Good 'ref management' counts for jack if your blokes are giving away a hatful of dumb penalties. Hooper needed to kick a few heads.
.

 

[Ulrich]

Hard to apply certain spectator standards across jurisdictions.

Pitch invasion in NZ:
$500 for unclothed male invaders.
Warning only for unclothed females (provided that assault a player on the buttocks).

Pitch invasion in Australia:
$5000 and lifetime ban.

Fair comment, but I was referring specifically to Argentina here. It's their responsibility to sort out this mess lest they intend to lose all respect. I think it's a major issue because I've lived in the region and I know how those folks feel about sport. Just look at the hedges to keep the crowd away (for football).

I'm not saying it's the same for the rugby supporters but rugby is the one sport I believe to be very pure and that sticks to its great traditions. Idiots with lazers are not welcome in this sport and if it needs be I'd have Argentina banned from the game to help keep it this way.

The saying goes (roughly): Football is a gentleman's game played by thugs. Rugby is a thuggish game played by gentlemen. I believe the same is true for the supporters of these codes.

 

[Kate Elizabeth]

Hooper's problem isn't his management of the ref, it's his management of his team-mates. Good 'ref management' counts for jack if your blokes are giving away a hatful of dumb penalties. Hooper needed to kick a few heads.
.

Good point. But I think the team wouldn't let him kick heads, and there's your problem. If you don't listen to your captain, either you get lost or your captain gets lost. But with no one listening it could well be the captain who gets lost.

 

[Pfitzy]

God bless you for saying that. I am a Reds fan, so I admit to anti-Tah bias, but on this occasion I can't even say it is my bias. Hooper is not a captain, and it is also affecting his game, so lose-lose. Not sure who the alternative is, but seriously I my nan would be better at ref management.

I actually think his game is affecting his captaincy. He is penalised very few times at the breakdown for an openside, but he's so busy trying to play that he doesn't set aside break times to have a word to the ref.

The best skippers don't talk when the penalty is against them, unless they are asking for clarification. They also don't try to drive a point home too hard when the penalty is in their favour - Horwill did this at the Reds and Wallabies and it was rarely successful.

They wait until its an injury break, or some kind of neutral ground, then approach the ref, and ask a couple of innocent questions. Usually you ask about your own team first to let him know you're open to suggestions. Then you point out that "my halfback said" or "my tighthead prop said". Plant a seed.

Most importantly, read a ref's body language and see if he's open for a chat.

 

[cyclopath]

Loss of To'omua was huge IMO. Horne was far from his best.

I think Phipps was hooked a couple minutes too early. He was heavily influencing the game at that point and White really failed to make the kind of impact you expect.

Phipps was knackered in the sequence of play prior to being hooked. Right to bring White on, although it didn't make much difference.

 

[qwerty51]

In retrospect, you can put this down to lack of depth, our players should've been rotated more but we can't afford that and now we've paid the price in the last game.

 

[Omar Comin']

Relax guys. It's one loss after a very tough match last weekend, a difficult trip with added difficulty and an imposing home crowd in a match that meant a lot more to Argentina than it did to us. And Argentina are not a bad side. They're certainly much better than their ranking, which is low because they are forced to play B teams in June every year.

It's not the end of the world and not time to lose faith in the players or the coach. It's not surprising the Wallabies didn't play well given the circumstances. We're frankly lucky Argentina didn't play particularly well themselves.

 

[A mutterer]

1) Congratulate Argentina for playing good, tough rugby and finally getting their first win of TRC.

2) Castigate the players for their ill discipline ACROSS THE BOARD

3) Criticise openly the coaching staff for what is clearly an inadequate game plan and poor use of the bench

have you had a chamomile tea this morning or something? not your usual peppery self.

the problem here is that it's not just this one game - ewen and his coaching staff have fundamentally failed to move this team forward and while he is in his second season, the current crop of results should be put to him with a show cause hanging over his head as it seems very little is either getting through to him or perhaps worse from him to the players.

there are quite obviously cultural issues within the team, and he should have fucking sorted it out by now one way or another. and i don't mean the QC (Quade Cooper) toxic nature, we have a soft mentality that is evident on the park by the lack of physicality and the way players approach contact and a distinct lack of the pride in the jersey that the darkness have.

even more worrying is the inability to remain focussed or make the right decisions and he should have drilled this into them by now. he's had enough time with them since the end of the s15.

there are quite obviously personnel issues and we are running with quite a few players who will struggle to make the extended squad for next year's wc, but it's his responsibility to manage the resources available to get a win.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip> Just look at the hedges to keep the crowd away.

There was a water filled moat behind the advertising hoardings last week for Pumas vs Darkness.

Fairfax Media understands that there have been unconfirmed reports on facebook and other internet sources that there may have been piranha and cayman in the moat.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

And to think that there were posts late yesterday that this thread was too quiet with the minutes of the Tin Foil Hat Club annual general meeting and other speculation being published on the Kurtley Beale Thread.

 

[BarneySF]

Can anyone recall the last time the Wallabies went down fighting - as in, a hard fought game that went down to the wire? Sort of like the equivalent of today's SA-NZ game?

 

[Pfitzy]

Relax guys. It's one loss after a very tough match last weekend, a difficult trip with added difficulty and an imposing home crowd in a match that meant a lot more to Argentina than it did to us. And Argentina are not a bad side. They're certainly much better than their ranking, which is low because they are forced to play B teams in June every year.

It's not the end of the world and not time to lose faith in the players or the coach. It's not surprising the Wallabies didn't play well given the circumstances. We're frankly lucky Argentina didn't play particularly well themselves.

In terms of my life, wife, two kids, mortgage, work etc. its no big deal.

But in terms of things I like to spend free time on, two losses in a row in similar circumstances is very worrying as a rugby fan. McKenzie made a statement, standing alongside Pulver, that we needed running rugby to get the crowds back, and win games with purpose.

Have we lost that? Has he decided to change it just to chase a win? Because its not working.

We were extremely lucky to win any of our games in TRC this year when you look at it logically, and in terms of improvement I see very little to suggest it is occurring across an entire 80 minute period.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Last coach to lose to Argentina lead us to a World Cup didn't they. Positives guys!

 

[I like to watch]

Imagine the bile if Robbie was the coach to lose to a team for the first time in 17 years.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Firstly, well done to Argentina on their win. It has been some time coming but to be fair they have been building slowly towards it.

I think discipline is what lost this game for us. 16 penalties and 2 yellow cards (could have been more) in an away game was never going to end well. Add to the 13 conceded last week with Owens in charge and there is a real problem that needs to be addressed or we'll get penalised out of games before we know it.

The possession and territory stats evened up towards the end but after last weeks huge defensive effort some players looked very tired and didn't give us what was required.

It's like a reverse of last weeks game where the Wallabies had 70 mins of good rugby then a bad 10 to lose it for us and this week was about 10 of good to be up 14-0 then do not much else throughout the game.

And finally, I think it speaks volumes that post game on the TV in the huddle, James Horwill was doing all the talking to the team.

 

[Ruggo]

Congratulations Argies. Quite fucking simply you don't pull back a 14 point lead and go on to win the game without getting credit.

Cut the fucking victim mentality. It is truly pathetic and it is a reflection upon yourselves and not the ref, the dickhead with the laser and the Argies.

It is about time Michael Hooper myth got blown wide open. He is a terrible captain plain and simple. No control over his own side let alone the ref. Leadership has truly vanished in the Wallabies.

Funny how it was Horwill who was laying it down to the team in the huddle after the game.

Why the fuck was Horwill dragged. Our captain has no influence and the bloke who was stepping up was replaced. He was our hardest worker up to that point. He certainly was the right bloke to be beside Skelton who came on as the fresh legs. Horwill and not Carter would without doubt have been the player to grab Skelton by the back of the jersey and urge the inexperienced player through the workload. It was a dismal call and Link can own that.

What we saw in this game was a rudderless ship and if that wasn't bad enough we decided to blow a fucking hole in the hull.

 

[qwerty51]

Imagine the bile if Robbie was the coach to lose to a team for the first time in 17 years.

Vs Scotland 27 years
vs Samoa 1st victory ever