Aussie Player Exodus

[Bullrush]

In the context of the post I responded to - which suggested Cheika "must" choose him for TRC primarily to stop him from moving to Scotland - it would be below the line to do that.

If he is a genuine selection, it is a different story. But my post was a response to a specific suggestion.

It's been a shame that in the past, some selections have LOOKED like this could have been a factor....the ABs over the years have had a couple of real questionable ones I reckon.......guys lost to the international game forever cos they played 1 or 2 Tests for the Wallabies or the ABs....

 

[qwerty51]

Ha yeah such a shame that guys can cherry pick who they want to play for in the international game..

 

[Braveheart81]

It's been a shame that in the past, some selections have LOOKED like this could have been a factor..the ABs over the years have had a couple of real questionable ones I reckon...guys lost to the international game forever cos they played 1 or 2 Tests for the Wallabies or the ABs..

Like Waratahs legend Sosene Anesi?

Has there been a better one test All Black? (you probably shouldn't answer that)

 

[Marcelo]

Is that because we're in the habit of limiting people's professional careers because we might use him off the bench every now and again?

Are u the Taqele's lawyer?

This is a professional sport, all professional sports are cruel, you should not be guided by the feelings of others. Ben Alexander's wife must think that her husband deserves to be a starter player at the WC, ok, it's best for the Ben Alexander's career but I'm not sure if it's the best for the team. I'm concerned about the development of the Wallabies, not about the Taqele's career.

I don't care Peter Betham's career, if he's happy playing in Leicester, I would rather have him as a backup in case of an injury crisis.

In this particular case, Taqele is indebted to rugby, especially with Cheika. He was given low by West Tigers, Cheika rescued him and gave meaning to his professional career. Thanks to Cheika he's known in the rugby world as part of a top class team like Tahs. Then Taqele owes everything to Cheika, without them Taqele would be nothing, if today has one foot in Europe is thanks to them that revived his career.

 

[Forcefield]

In the context of the post I responded to - which suggested Cheika "must" choose him for TRC primarily to stop him from moving to Scotland - it would be below the line to do that.

If he is a genuine selection, it is a different story. But my post was a response to a specific suggestion.

I'd genuinely selecting if he finishes the season well. Some of the other options are very low on form (e.g. Cummins). The only person who would definitely be higher up on the selection ladder would be Speight- IMO.

 

[TOCC]

If he is the best player then select him, whether or not he is a chance of leaving for overseas or whether this will restrict his future test chances are irrelevant.. He has made himself available for Wallaby selection, no one is forcing that on him, he is a grown man and the rules of elegibility are well publicised so it's up to him as to whether he gambles on locking down a long term wallaby position.


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[Tangawizi]

Anyone know if Richard Brown still has a contract in Japan? I know he left 2 years ago on a 2 year deal with Honda so just wondered what he's up to after seeing an old Test from 2010 on TV last night.

From twitter it looks like he's back in Oz but no real mention of rugby since January.

 

[suckerforred]

I thought he has only been there for one season............ but could be wrong. Time flies when you are having fun.

 

[Braveheart81]

Seeing as it was featured on the Monday News story and there is increasing discussion, I thought it was worthwhile talking about the Quade Cooper / Tim Horan situation here.

It originated on last week's RugbyHQ when Horan said that he understood that QC (Quade Cooper) wanted to stay in Australia if he could get out of his contract with Toulon. Horan then seemingly made up a figure of $200k as a potential amount of money that would need to be paid to escape the contract. Horan suggested that the ARU should pay this as it was vital to keep QC (Quade Cooper) playing in Australia.

One of the other panelists Peter Fitzsimons then suggested that was crazy and that the money should be spent on the grassroots and it was inappropriate for the ARU to do what Horan suggested.

Nick McCardle pushed for Horan to clarify his position and asked whether he truly did believe the ARU should be forking out to get players out of a foreign contract.

Horan then backed down slightly on his position and said that maybe the costs could be shared by the QRU, private backers and Cooper.

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Personally I agree that it is entirely inappropriate for the ARU to be paying for Cooper to escape his contract. His salary offer in Australia is more than high enough that if $200k will get him out of his Toulon deal and he really doesn't want to go, he could wear paying the bill himself.

The $200k figure though seems to have been plucked out of the ether so who knows what it would actually take to have his Toulon contract cancelled.

Realistically if Cooper is determined to stay in Australia now he should be quite vocal about wanting to do so and not wanting to move to France. In general it's not good business to try and enforce an employment contract if someone doesn't want to be working there. They're unlikely to be a success if their heart isn't entirely in it. If Cooper starts making the right noises about wanting to stay in Australia he may find that the Toulon issue goes away without costing much at all.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Loved Timmay as a player but sometimes question his judgement as a pundit. There is absolutely no way the ARU should be getting involved in helping an individual player break a contract with another party. If QC (Quade Cooper) and his manager have concocted a deal with Toulon then surely it's their responsibility to get themselves out of it if they've had a case of buyers remorse. That we want Quade to stay in Australian rugby is actually pretty irrelevant.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If that is $200,000 more than the ARU have determined Cooper is worth to Australian rugby that's fair enough.

But saying it should not be done on principle is absolutely stupid. If the ARU think it's in their best interests to spend an additional $200,000 on Cooper, and they would up his contract by that value if necessary then what is the difference? Zero.

Do whatever you can, within your means, to retain people you consider critical. If that $200,000 is within their means (ie. what they have can afford for a single player in that position) then great. If not, that's unfortunate but that's life.

But again, I think Horan is talking out of his arse. He plucked $200,000 out of the air and the discussion was that Cooper had signed a letter of intent. Which by definition is generally not binding. So there would be no remuneration necessary to break the alleged "contract", because it's apparently not a contract.

 

[Braveheart81]

Part of the reason the ARU has been in such financial dire straits is they spent the last decade going against their own stated policies and funding agreements.

I don't see how the ARU can reasonably spend more on Cooper than they were willing to offer a few months ago. Presumably they made their best offer at that time and Cooper didn't accept it.

Hopefully Cooper manages to wiggle his way out of the Toulon deal and stay in Australian rugby. I don't think it's the ARU's place to get involved though. Especially now that we've announced we will make foreign based players available, the ARU needs to ensure their relationship with the big clubs in Europe is strong to ensure we get the best treatment possible in terms of players getting released for test duty.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If they made their best offer at the time fair enough. That theoretical $200,000 would then, not be within their means.

 

[TOCC]

What if the $200,000 were paid by the ARU but it comes out of Quade's future earnings..

Quade signs for $750,000/year for 3 years, ARU pays the $200,000 release fee and then $67,000/annum is deducted from Quade's pay check.



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[TOCC]

I don't see how the ARU can reasonably spend more on Cooper than they were willing to offer a few months ago. Presumably they made their best offer at that time and Cooper didn't accept it.

That's all part of negotiating though isn't it, was it really the ARU's best offer?. Perhaps Quade is backing himself to put in some awesome performances in his return from injury and boost his value to Australian Rugby. Surely the administrators are asking the same questions as we are, can Quade come back from such a long stint on the sideline and perform to the level he once did?



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[qwerty51]

What if the $200,000 were paid by the ARU but it comes out of Quade's future earnings..

Quade signs for $750,000/year for 3 years, ARU pays the $200,000 release fee and then $67,000/annum is deducted from Quade's pay check.

Which is the same as Quade paying it if the ARU deal is the same amount. Do you just mean so Quade isn't immediately out of pocket 200k?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Which is the same as Quade paying it if the ARU deal is the same amount. Do you just mean so Quade isn't immediately out of pocket 200k?

If the ARU pays it, Quade doesn't pay income tax on $200,000. And as far as I'm aware, the ARU can write it off under their expenses.

 

[TOCC]

Which is the same as Quade paying it if the ARU deal is the same amount. Do you just mean so Quade isn't immediately out of pocket 200k?

Yes it's exactly that, Quade paying...
Purely speculation, but not many people have 35% of their annual salary in cash reserves available, can he afford to pay a $200,000 fine straight up? Maybe not, but a $100million organisation should..




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[Braveheart81]

If they made a payment on behalf of an employee it should have FBT consequences so the outcome should be much the same unless the ARU is also footing that bill.

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Can I interrupt the Quade Cooper accountancy masterclass and ask if it would be a good idea for the smaller nations (defined by IRB or what ever they are called now) to be able to repatriate say 2 capped players for the RWC if they are not picked for their adopted nations ? We hear a lot of talk about giving the fledgling nations a leg up ....I know this is the Aussie exodus thread but suspect a South Pacific Islander Exodus deserves some sort of shout out given we and the Kiwis have been the major beneficiaries in my view .