Australia v England

[Spruce Moose]

Hard game to swallow as at the end of the first half thought we could win it but the non-yellow card was just the start of a quick downhill trend.

Agree with all said here, the useless centre field kicking or piss poor up & under attempts after 5 phases just kills me every time. Especially knowing with guys like Kerevi, DHP and Falou we can actually run with the ball in hand! Another big concern is Foley has dropped off the face of the earth in rugby terms, he needs to sit out some tests until getting form back in Super Rugby. I have no problem playing two ball runners like Hodge and Kerevi at 12 & 13 and sacking off the double play maker.

For me I think Chieka should go, but potentially is too late. Likely should have gone after Argentina loss at home.
As for replacements Jake White and David Wessels are the two names that come to mind, other potential would be to get either Schmidt or Hansen after RWC as I assume one of them will be coaching the All Blacks and one will not.

 

[Dan54]

Capable rugby people who aren't from a narrow clique of Sydney and Brisbane GPS old boys

Yep, that's great QH, but who are these people? It's not even that I wonder, but just Eddie seems to suggest it can't be run by people from NSW and Qld RUs because they are virtually broke, so which RUs in Australian are not close to bankrupt, and how do you find people from outside these places who care enough about the game to actually run ARU.

 

[Gnostic]

Coaching comments - as I said above the systems are an utter failure. As the comments today by Eddie Jones have highlighted again, the systems off the pitch are even worse, and I would go further to say they are corrupt.

The arguments about lack of funding for grass roots is fundamental to the plight of the Wallabies, we have a generation of playing professionals that have rarely if ever turned out at club level and before that played and learnt skills in a very shallow pond in which their natural gifts allowed them to dominate like men against boys. Basically their skills are that poorly developed that under pressure we find that even if they can kick, pass, tackle those skills often fade.

Lets forget the arguments about funding Premier level rugby, lets look at school level rugby, the ARU and in NSW at least the state Union do not fund the school level competitions. Even regional championship level tournaments look like they are being funded by the hosting club, with them being told how lucky they are they get to have the canteen and bar takings (no alcohol at schools *&^&heads) to defray the costs. So in my area clubs have basically been told they "get" to be the host next year and we have clubs actually fighting not to host these games.

As Eddie Jones, and many others, have said our game is fundamentally broken from the bottom, and the obscene funding the top end is getting even when devoid of anything close to competitive results means the trickle down they hope to generate has resulted in the death of the game and a general waning of interest.

Finally for the first time ever I think the Wallabies are a very real chance of not making it out of the pool stage in nest years RWC. Fiji looked very good in a hard fought victory against the French. They certainly have much more in attack than the Wallabies and the shite defensive structures will be praying for a wet heavy track to attempt to destroy the Fijian handling of their open game, otherwise they are shot. The welsh can and will beat the Wallabies next year I think, even with Warrenball and its severe limitations.

It is now too late to sack Chieka, it should have been done after the Irish series, or the RC at the latest with real analysis of the direction of the team ignoring the results, just look at the play of the side one could see the trajectory was downward. No we are stuck with him, with team discipline breaking down, the coach telling outright lies to cover it up (what an truly idiotic thing to do, it was always going to come out), non-sensical game plans, attack and defence structures, this Wallabies set-up has no redeeming features. The failure of the RA just adds the icing to this shit pudding.

So will RA now try to save themselves again and sacrifice Larkham and Grey and whoever the forwards coach is? I doubt it, Chieka has been given carte blanche and I don't think they have the guts to do it.

 

[gel]

Think you’re selling some people a bit short there, sure there’s plenty of people from gps heritage who would do an amazing job transforming Australian rugby given the chance

bwhahahahahaha.

 

[southsider]

bwhahahahahaha.

Nah yea apologies fuck me, if you go to a gps school you’re automatically fucked and incapable of doing a good job

 

[TSR]

I really don’t understand our defence.

Our attack is poorly constructed - but I can at least see what they are trying to achieve (except the kicks down the middle of the field) even if I think they are chasing fools gold.

But I fail to see any rational reason why our defence system has evolved into the overly complex, convuluted mess that it has become.

 

[I like to watch]

Nah yea apologies fuck me, if you go to a gps school you’re automatically fucked and incapable of doing a good job

Well yeah, their life expectancies are that GPS Rugby is the centre of the universe for under age Rugby players.

That mindset means that basically the game is disappearing up the arse of the GPS system.

Until there is a pathway that is recognised as being more prestigious than the current schoolboy selection process,then the game will never regain any ground.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Sack Cheika and appoint who?

Gloria.

Total change in culture.

And he would do it for nothing. As random as it it, you could do worse.

 

[formerflanker]

Since nothing traditional has worked for the Wallabies, lets look at some creative alternatives.

1. Work on Alan Jones' idea of creating mauls much more often, rather than pods running at a set defence.
If it worked, many more opposition defenders would be required at the maul to prevent it from being marched upfield. Then our backs would be running at fewer defenders with better results than current attack systems.
This would of course require a method of securing the ball from all mauls rather than turning over the ball from a collapsed maul.

2. Do we need assistant coaches?
Keep the skills coach but get rid of the attack coach and forwards coach. Are there any other specialist coaches I've forgotten?
Simplify all game strategies and have Cheika supervise the player's ownership of game play and preparation.
How many times does a coach have to watch scrummaging and line out practice? I think international players could run that themselves.
How many backline moves exist? Again, international players could devise, practice, and implement the moves themselves.
Cheika is full time so he would have the time to do video analysis of his own team and his opponents. Heavens, there is probably technology I don't know of which could do a lot of that for him.
The increased sense of responsibility would lift the players' desire for perfect implementation on the field.

3. Pay players more for winning tests than for losing. (If that's not already being done).

 

[formerflanker]

Well yeah, their life expectancies are that GPS Rugby is the centre of the universe for under age Rugby players.

That mindset means that basically the game is disappearing up the arse of the GPS system.

Until there is a pathway that is recognised as being more prestigious than the current schoolboy selection process,then the game will never regain any ground.

You don't mean that RA should focus on grassroots rugby do you?
Heaven forbid.

 

[southsider]

Well yeah, their life expectancies are that GPS Rugby is the centre of the universe for under age Rugby players.

That mindset means that basically the game is disappearing up the arse of the GPS system.

Until there is a pathway that is recognised as being more prestigious than the current schoolboy selection process,then the game will never regain any ground.

Surely you’re not that much of an idiot to think every gps person thinks like that though

Or maybe you are...........

 

[Slim 293]

Hard game to swallow as at the end of the first half thought we could win it but the non-yellow card was just the start of a quick downhill trend.

Agree with all said here, the useless centre field kicking or piss poor up & under attempts after 5 phases just kills me every time. Especially knowing with guys like Kerevi, DHP and Falou we can actually run with the ball in hand! Another big concern is Foley has dropped off the face of the earth in rugby terms, he needs to sit out some tests until getting form back in Super Rugby. I have no problem playing two ball runners like Hodge and Kerevi at 12 & 13 and sacking off the double play maker.

For me I think Chieka should go, but potentially is too late. Likely should have gone after Argentina loss at home.
As for replacements Jake White and David Wessels are the two names that come to mind, other potential would be to get either Schmidt or Hansen after RWC as I assume one of them will be coaching the All Blacks and one will not.

We probably should remember that Wessels has achieved less as a coach in Super Rugby than Cheika and Larkham.........

 

[I like to watch]

Surely you’re not that much of an idiot to think every gps person thinks like that though

Or maybe you are.....

Not sure abuse is the best way to make your point, but only an idiot would suggest that past administrators with GPS backgrounds didn’t think like that.

 

[KOB1987]

Surely you’re not that much of an idiot to think every gps person thinks like that though

Or maybe you are.....

Some narrow minded stereotyping there.

There’s a whole separate thread on this but the problem is that there has been a whole succession of upper level managers & board members at the ARU/RA who have been responsible for the transition of the code from the amateur era until now who mostly went to the same GPS school and live in the same suburb and have zero sports administration qualifications or experience.

So while some on here continue to tar anyone who went to a GPS school with the same brush, it’s actually the last point which is the only one of any real relevance.

 

[Quick Hands]

Think you’re selling some people a bit short there, sure there’s plenty of people from gps heritage who would do an amazing job transforming Australian rugby given the chance

Correct, but they aren't in the clique. You need to examine the employment history and directorships of the current crowd and you'll get the picture.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Since nothing traditional has worked for the Wallabies, lets look at some creative alternatives.

1. Work on Alan Jones' idea of creating mauls much more often, rather than pods running at a set defence.
If it worked, many more opposition defenders would be required at the maul to prevent it from being marched upfield. Then our backs would be running at fewer defenders with better results than current attack systems.
This would of course require a method of securing the ball from all mauls rather than turning over the ball from a collapsed maul.

2. Do we need assistant coaches?
Keep the skills coach but get rid of the attack coach and forwards coach. Are there any other specialist coaches I've forgotten?
Simplify all game strategies and have Cheika supervise the player's ownership of game play and preparation.
How many times does a coach have to watch scrummaging and line out practice? I think international players could run that themselves.
How many backline moves exist? Again, international players could devise, practice, and implement the moves themselves.
Cheika is full time so he would have the time to do video analysis of his own team and his opponents. Heavens, there is probably technology I don't know of which could do a lot of that for him.
The increased sense of responsibility would lift the players' desire for perfect implementation on the field.

3. Pay players more for winning tests than for losing. (If that's not already being done).

Agree, there if definitely a place for rolling malls. You need both quick ruck ball and going forward mall ball.

But there wouldn't be a forward playing the game that has ever done a riper, blocker blocker drill.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yep, that's great QH, but who are these people? It's not even that I wonder, but just Eddie seems to suggest it can't be run by people from NSW and Qld RUs because they are virtually broke, so which RUs in Australian are not close to bankrupt, and how do you find people from outside these places who care enough about the game to actually run ARU.

I think he's alluding the the fact that the same people who have run the NSWRU and QRU into the ground then go on to control the ARU/RA. It's very much a mutual protection society where the ARU/RA fund the NSWRU and QRU and those two bodies control who can and can't get onto the ARU/RA board etc.

It's the people, not the geographic places. As a former state school student, Eddie Jones has felt the power of the entrenched elites more than anyone. It's rather ironic that in England where one would expect entrenched privilege the RFU is a democratic mutual society, but in Australia where one would expect egalitarian values we have the opposite.

 

[southsider]

Not sure abuse is the best way to make your point, but only an idiot would suggest that past administrators with GPS backgrounds didn’t think like that.

Hey you’re the one who insinuated every gps person (including myself) is incapable of Independent thinking and are guilty of elitist behaviour

Yep they 100% did think like that but you tarred every single gps person with the same brush, was a pretty ignorant comment to make

 

[southsider]

Correct, but they aren't in the clique. You need to examine the employment history and directorships of the current crowd and you'll get the picture.

100% agree just didn’t like everyone being painted with the same brush, there’s plenty of gps people on here who are doing hard yards in grass roots and I imagine rugby admin to make our game better

 

[formerflanker]

Agree, there if definitely a place for rolling malls. You need both quick ruck ball and going forward mall ball.

But there wouldn't be a forward playing the game that has ever done a riper, blocker blocker drill.

Yep, it would be a clever coach who could work out how to create rolling mauls without sacrificing possession or contravening the Laws.
But that's why we pay our national coach the big bucks!!