Australian Schoolboys 2014

[Brainstrust]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No, there won't be.

The Kiwis are putting this on for their home consumption and they obviously just want the NZ component.

At least we are getting two games on this NZ tour: two years ago, and four years ago, we got only the test match.

Two years before that we didn't get any TV coverage.
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Are you sure they had TV back then?

 

[Monday's Expert]

This is always true, and the selectors usually get it right more often than we do. I thought that James Lough is more the type of player that we need to play against the Kiwis in the test match than Fox is.

Those are the players I would have leaned towards more for all the squad selections because if they played a hard game in that last match they would ipso facto be capable of competing well in the other two.

But the selectors look at a bigger range of things than we do and that is why we will always be puzzled, year to year.



This is sometimes the case. A few years back when KB (Kurtley Beale) was playing for NSW Is Schools and QC (Quade Cooper) was playing for Qld I Schools neither side made the final and both IIs teams were in it instead.

But the NSW and Qld players who made the Aus Schools team 1st XV was made up principally of players from the Ones.

You knew this was going to happen even before Finals Day. Those boys from both Twos' sides clicked but they weren't as good individuals as the Ones' players were. There was no way that Twos players would have been chosen over Kurtley and Quade and in some other positions.

There must have been a few disgruntled parents, but I saw the reasons why most players were chosen.

This year Qld I had a dud team and nearly lost to Qld II instead of drawing with them, yet Qld I has seven players in the touring party by my rough count and Qld II, just one—because they had better individual players.
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All fair comments but also fair to point out Q2 5/8 was Matt To'omua who is ironically being selected ahead of both at the moment - yes QC (Quade Cooper) is injured but it made the point sound stronger!!
There will always be bolsters and thank God for Combined States giving boys and selectors a second bite - but essentially most selections at 1s level are correct most of the time.

 

[10to12]

This is always true, and the selectors usually get it right more often than we do. I thought that James Lough is more the type of player that we need to play against the Kiwis in the test match than Fox is.

Those are the players I would have leaned towards more for all the squad selections because if they played a hard game in that last match they would ipso facto be capable of competing well in the other two.

But the selectors look at a bigger range of things than we do and that is why we will always be puzzled, year to year.



This is sometimes the case. A few years back when KB (Kurtley Beale) was playing for NSW Is Schools and QC (Quade Cooper) was playing for Qld I Schools neither side made the final and both IIs teams were in it instead.

But the NSW and Qld players who made the Aus Schools team 1st XV was made up principally of players from the Ones.

You knew this was going to happen even before Finals Day. Those boys from both Twos' sides clicked but they weren't as good individuals as the Ones' players were. There was no way that Twos players would have been chosen over Kurtley and Quade and in some other positions.

There must have been a few disgruntled parents, but I saw the reasons why most players were chosen.

This year Qld I had a dud team and nearly lost to Qld II instead of drawing with them, yet Qld I has seven players in the touring party by my rough count and Qld II, just one—because they had better individual players.
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IIRC the selectors this year were from Qld. So with delayed selections and a few injuries we now have had the whole Qld 1 forward pack (bar Darcy 4 ) selected to play for Australia. Now most of these boys played 16s last year in a very dominant 16s nats carnival.
This year with our great expectations they failed while up against a cohort of generally 18 year olds as you would expect when the best 17yo come up against the best 18yo.What I don't understand is that in a stacked selection panel they can't see that as good as their 17yo are they were outmuscled by (18yo) N2. If Q1 had an ounce of good ball their v good backs would have run riot.
Good luck in your games . I feel the selectors have done this tean a disservice

 

[Lee Grant]

There will always be bolsters and thank God for Combined States giving boys and selectors a second bite - but essentially most selections at 1s level are correct most of the time.

Yeah they will never be always correct all of the time, whatever that is, any more than the Wallabies side selections are.

I agree about the Combined States system offering a better chance to players overlooked by the other teams, but it must be the hardest side of all to pick.

People actually mentioned the idea of NSW and Qld players (outside of "Lloydies") being eligible for CS years ago in the forum, though it seemed to be "pie in the sky stuff"—but the change when they awarded separate teams to Victoria and WA made it easier.

The thing Oz Schools has done right (if the results against NZ Schools are any measure) is that they have kept a core of selectors from year to year.

That said, you know that there must have been some close calls around the selection table, and in hindsight some fellows missed out that should have been picked.

Others may mention that they had foresight, not hindsight, about some bad selections or omissions which were proved, to them, at least.

This will always be the case whoever the selectors are.
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[Lee Grant]

IIRC the selectors this year were from Qld.

So with delayed selections and a few injuries we now have had the whole Qld 1 forward pack (bar Darcy 4 ) selected to play for Australia.

I feel the selectors have done this tean a disservice

True, three of them are from Qld but two aren't. Pat Langtry adds input from the ACT and Manu Sutherland sees a lot of Sydney schools games.

There weren't a lot of dominant forwards in the Oz Schools Championships this year, especially in the second row and I don't think the flankers were as good as they have been in recent years, as a group.

Before you accuse the selectors of doing the team a disservice you should mention who should be in and who out in the forwards.

My general criticism of the selections is not a state based one, but that they chose skills players in the forwards, like Fox as one of the three to add on when they already had two number 8s in the squad in Crichton and Blake—and later Hewatt, when they could have picked bruisers like Rudolf or Petterson in the second row.

The injury to Crichton discounts the Fox argument now but it was almost unaccountable at the time.

I always prefer bruisers in Schools and Under 20 teams although you can have one or maybe two backrowers with big engines in counterpoint.

But let's see how they play in the test matches, especially against NZ before we start slagging the selectors - and let's not be too disappointed in how they perform against NZ A, because we don't have the depth they have.
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[Ben Dover]

Lee Grant said;

"That was in the Aus Championships when I mentioned that, but maybe he just had a four games below his usual standard.

He didn't compare with Angus Crichton or James Lough the NSW no. 8s. He had some nice linking Higginbotham moments that were noticeable and made folks ooh and aah, but he struck me as a seagull and exactly the kind of player I wouldn't play against the Kiwis."

LG what happened to not criticising or putting the players down? I guarantee if the kid read that he wouldn't be to happy no matter what you were trying to put across...

 

[Tah and feathered]

Interesting to see that one of the 3 added to the squad is listed as captain.

http://www.schoolsrugby.com.au/2014/news/australian-schools-side-depart-new-zealand-tour/

I thought Izzack Rodda was the Qld lock selected as part of the 3 additions
This list has Reece Hewitt as making the touring party?
Is this correct?

 

[10to12]

True, three of them are from Qld but two aren't. Pat Langtry adds input from the ACT and Manu Sutherland sees a lot of Sydney schools games.

There weren't a lot of dominant forwards in the Oz Schools Championships this year, especially in the second row and I don't think the flankers were as good as they have been in recent years, as a group.

Before you accuse the selectors of doing the team a disservice you should mention who should be in and who out in the forwards.

My general criticism of the selections is not a state based one, but that they chose skills players in the forwards, like Fox as one of the three to add on when they already had two number 8s in the squad in Crichton and Blake—and later Hewatt, when they could have picked bruisers like Rudolf or Petterson in the second row.

The injury to Crichton discounts the Fox argument now but it was almost unaccountable at the time.

I always prefer bruisers in Schools and Under 20 teams although you can have one or maybe two backrowers with big engines in counterpoint.

But let's see how they play in the test matches, especially against NZ before we start slagging the selectors - and let's not be too disappointed in how they perform against NZ A, because we don't have the depth they have.
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Lee, I'm in general agreement with you HJ RA and the others who have posted in the last couple of days. The team doesn't appear to have too many workers that will make the Kiwis sweat it in the tight. I didn't list boys because everyone else has and I agree with you all. My main point is the selectors have gone with a bunch of 17yo who excelled the year before in the 16 nats (they were bloody good) but in the opens this year were pretty ordinary when they were up against the 18yo of N2. TheQ1 forwards didn't need to win much ball for their backs to dominate but were unable to because in my opinion they were monstered by N2 forwards in particular their loosies.
The disservice is they have selected all bar one of theQ1 forward pack that over the Nationals were found wanting.
Seeing how we go against NZ misses the point. Its about picking our strongest team

 

[Lee Grant]

I thought Izzack Rodda was the Qld lock selected as part of the 3 additions
This list has Reece Hewitt as making the touring party?
Is this correct?

Hewatt replaced Rodda who was injured.
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[Lee Grant]

LG what happened to not criticising or putting the players down? I guarantee if the kid read that he wouldn't be to happy no matter what you were trying to put across.

Yes, it was a bit harsh, wasn't it—but I did preface it by suggesting it may have been below his usual standard for his school and that it was only in the Aus Championships week.

I had a similar opinion about Mitch Whiteley the Oz Schools captain for the tour two years ago (and also a no. 8)— that he played a bit "light" (and I expressed such)—but he had a cracking match in the NZ test, coming out of the defensive line and knocking runners over.

Let's see how Harley plays against NZ and trust that he can play a hard game as Mitch did that day—and hope that I can say that he played harder than he did in Sydney a few months ago.

To be fair Fox wasn't playing in a very good Qld I side that week, by their standards, and that always affects the performance of the individuals.
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[Lee Grant]

There was some recorded vision of Oz Schools training at Joeys on Rugby HQ (obviously from earlier in the week).

It was hard to spot but I noticed that 9. Duffy was passing to 10. Jackson-Hope and that skipper Fox and others were in body suits.

That indicates to me that Duffy and Jackson-Hope are in the Twos' side for the Baas game and that 9. Goddard and 10. O'Shea will start in the test matches - or in the test against Fiji, at least.
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[pablo]

http://www.schoolsrugby.com.au/2014/news/australian-schools-team-v-fiji-announced/

1 Vunipola Fifita Newington College
2 Ed Craig Epping Boys’ High School
3 Shambeckler Vui Ipswich Grammar School
4 Reece Hewat St Joseph’s Nudgee College
5 Andrew Vatuvei Sarah Redfern High School
6 Maumau Monu Canberra College
7 Connor Moroney St Joseph’s College Gregory Terrace
8 Harley Fox Anglican Church Grammar School
9 Nicholas Duffy St Joseph’s College
10 Connor O’Shea St Joseph’s College
11 Joey Fittock The Southport School
12 Sione Tuipulotu St Kevin’s College
13 Izaia Perese Anglican Church Grammar School
14 Ah-Mu Tuimaleali’ifano Roxburgh College
15 Jordan Fulivai St Francis Xavier College
16 Phil Bradford Hunter Sports High school
17 Evan Pritchard St Ignatius’ College
18 Gavin Luka St Joseph’s Nudgee College
19 Tom Blake Marcellin College
20 Hugh Summerhayes Cranbrook School
21 Harrison Goddard Oakhill College
22 Jordan Jackson-Hope St Edmund’s College
23 Sepesa Lola-Tarogi Newington College

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Very surprised that Duffy beat Goddard to the starting side

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ The Selectors will be trailing things against the Fijian Schools, and NZ Barbarians.

Photo from:http://www.schoolsrugby.com.au/


The #1 side will probably only be revealed when the team against NZ is announced. Even then, that team may be "adjusted" due to any injuries picked up in the two tour games and training.

Interesting that Blake seems to have been listed as a back up second rower, and Summerhayes as a bench loose forward. I like the look of the back line.

Asiata (prop), Yeomans (Utility Back) and Tualima (Loose Forward) are on Kicking Tee and Water Runner Duties. Dollars to Donuts that will all get a start in Game 2 vs Barbarians.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Anyone know of a twitter feed for the game, or of one of the parent supporters who may be following the tour and will be tweeting progress updates?

 

[pablo]

Interesting that Blake seems to have been listed as a back up second rower, and Summerhayes as a bench loose forward. I like the look of the back line.

Tom Blake played a lot of time at lock for Vic in the carnival and only wore jersey 6/8...very comfortable in either 2nd or back row.

 

[Lee Grant]

The #1 side will probably only be revealed when the team against NZ is announced. Even then, that team may be "adjusted" due to any injuries picked up in the two tour games and training.

I think, they think, that is their top XV and that they will keep it just as they did in 2012 unless someone has a crook game or gets injured.

Two years ago they picked the same side as played against Samoa Schools (in NZ) for the NZ test, but for replacing one prop and getting Whiteley back from injury. (Tuttle subsequently dropped out after succumbing to tonsillitis).

Also, it was virtually the same team that played in the test match against Fiji in Fiji on their way to NZ.

The bottom line is that Phillpott likes to keep his test side intact and the next to bottom line is that they probably picked the test team for Fiji/Samoa/NZ last time, before they left Australia, and will do the same again this time, over two tests rather than three.
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[Lee Grant]

I thought that Luka and Goddard would make the starting team.

After the nationals I watched Joeys every week (Duffy) and Oakhill twice (Goddard) and am certain that Goddard is the better scrumhalf, but the combination Duffy had with O'Shea for his school was magnificent at that level.

Obviously the selectors thought that would add more value to the team despite the fact that Goddard and O'Shea seemed to operate pretty well for NSW I in the nationals.

Goddard is Under 16 eligible; so maybe his youth was another thing they looked at, and another matter could have been that Goddard's excellent goal kicking wouldn't be required because O'Shea was slotting them from everywhere for Joeys.

So Fifita is playing at LHP—and Hewat goes straight into the starting XV second row. That's sudden elevation for a player who got a late call-up, but Qlders say he has been in great form in the Qld GPS so he must be going OK.

I just hope he plays a hard game.

The rest of the team is unexceptionable.

I thought that ACT's Jordan Jackson-Hope (JJH) was the best flyhalf at the nationals but O'Shea's form after that was so good he was able to carry Joeys through games they may have lost, or he got them closer if they did lose.

I think that we will hear a lot more of JJH in the years to come and not necessarily just as a flyhalf.

Great to see 12 Tuipulotu starting. He was one of the best players in the nationals. Watch this space on this fellow also.
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[RedsHappy]

Yes, it was a bit harsh, wasn't it—but I did preface it by suggesting it may have been below his usual standard for his school and that it was only in the Aus Championships week.

I had a similar opinion about Mitch Whiteley the Oz Schools captain for the tour two years ago (and also a no. 8)— that he played a bit "light" (and I expressed such)—but he had a cracking match in the NZ test, coming out of the defensive line and knocking runners over.

Let's see how Harley plays against NZ and trust that he can play a hard game as Mitch did that day—and hope that I can say that he played harder than he did in Sydney a few months ago.

To be fair Fox wasn't playing in a very good Qld I side that week, by their standards, and that always affects the performance of the individuals.
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Lee, my comments above that you responded to re H Fox were of course formulated after watching him after 8 QLD GPS games (when Churchie his team won every one), and yours were understandably formed from a time this year when the QLD GPS season hadn't even commenced. I suspect his play grew quite well with actual continuous competition and that it was sighting this growth that prompted the Schoolboys selectors to finally pick him late in their selection process.

If you're interested, you can see full or part Churchie 2014 GPS home games via the link below and thus you'll see plenty of H Fox in action (just choose the games dated 61 or less days only, the others are from 2013):

https://new.livestream.com/Churchie-LiveStream

 

[Dctarget]

I played in the same club team as a Henry Hutchinson a few years back in Melbourne. He moved interstate (to NSW?), is this the same HH that everyone is talking about?


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