Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2017

[Inside Shoulder]

amirite,

I understand your knowledge here and sensitivity to this but I am pretty sure the boys etc don't know this, they believe they are chosen as informed, and so does everyone else.

Surely the coaches explain why a player is playing somewhere other than his number indicates?
These coaches are working in an educational environment with fragile (whatever their outward appearance) psyches/moods/self confidence. Once they would have been teachers, of course.p, trained or experienced in Hesse things.
If a coach can't give a player a reason for change he probably shouldn't make the change. If the higher selectors want it tell the kid.

 

[WLF]

I may have my wires crossed, but are you saying Fathers had to give starting players pep talks because they weren't playing their position of preference, but were still starting?

What happened was that 1 only got 20 mins in the 2nd half,and was originally chosen as the no 12, and the other got no time in his selected position no 10. He did play 15 but I can assure you nothing was explained to them.

So the fathers were propping them up after the game!

 

[First phase]

These guys are schoolboy coaches who have had the team for a week and are trying to stamp their imprimatur on the team. These coaches have obviously done all the courses and played rugby/coached at certain levels but that does make them good coaches or good managers of their personnel necessarily. Played under a lot of bad coaches who thought they were real good. Maybe adopt the KISS principle to coaching and not the under / overs criss cross channel style. Have a look how ACT played.

 

[sidelineview]

It would appear the coaches of NSW 1 have pretty big egos - or maybe they were just giving the best players a rest before QLD 2 game tomorrow

There are no General Rules included in this year's program but in last years program it stated that each player is required to play the equivalent of at least one full match (60 minutes) and must be selected at least once in the run-on XV.

I assume its the same this year, so the coaches are bound to follow the rules and to also try to be fair to all the players selected in the 23 besides trying to win every game.

If for example, the coaches of NSW2s who play Qld1 tomorrow, didnt give ''reserve'' players a run in the early games, they will be forced to play them tomorrow. Maybe for just one half a game. It means they may not have their best team on the paddock for the first half. So the coaches have to juggle this all around.

It actually happened last year with NSW2 against Qld1. The coaches had played their strongest team against WA in the first game which they won convincingly, and had to play the ''reserve'' players (shouldn't call them that) in the first half against Qld1. They had 4 or 5 of their strongest players sitting on the bench in the first half and Qld skipped ahead.

Fortunately the strongest team played the 2nd half and NSW2 fought back and scored a try on the bell to lose by less than 7 points. That was enough to gain them a bonus point which was enough for them to scrape into the Final against NSW1 just ahead of Victoria. The coaches, inadvertently nearly stuffed up.

The NSW1 coach and manager this year were in charge of NSW2s last year, so they would have turned up this time all the wiser for the experience.

 

[The Honey Badger]

What happened was that 1 only got 20 mins in the 2nd half,and was originally chosen as the no 12, and the other got no time in his selected position no 10. He did play 15 but I can assure you nothing was explained to them.

So the fathers were propping them up after the game!

WLF, every player including the reserves must be given a minimum set time in front of selectors.

I think it is 90 Min and addionally every player must be given a run on start.

The coaches are trying to win but have to give all the players time. So there are players interchanged all tournament.

As for positional changes, I believe that happens a lot. For various reasons including injury.

Last year Rasch (CAS / Trinity) was selected as 4 for NSW II but ended up playing 6 in the final.

He got a late call up for Barbarians. That change did him no harm.

If you are playing at this level you would have played a lot of Rugby, and should have the skills and ability to play where ever you are told. And to get the chance to show selectors you are versatile, got to be a bonus.

 

[sidelineview]

It's 60 minutes according to last years rules and you're right HB, it's not necessarily cloak and dagger stuff.

The coach and manager of NSW1 were popular with the players and adults last year, so I doubt whether they'd purposely do anything untoward.

The selectors may well have asked them to swap Donaldson and Woodcock around. It wouldnt be the first time it's happened. If anything, its a test the 2 players would want to pass. It's not unusual for a 10 to be able to play 15 and vice versa but some players arent as versatile.

As for the Smith/Myers/Wallace thing, Wallace is a winger so why would anyone expect him to replace a centre? Unless there was a centre in the shadow squad who was overlooked?

 

[SOLE334]

"I think the problem last year and probably this year as well is that Rugby didn't start till term 3, and selectors would have taken that into consideration. The boys had played very little rugby and not match fit at that stage."
Constructive feedback:

• Both Qld teams show obvious signs of an under prepared team. Much of the 'ironing out of the jinx' in the qld team's setup is highly likely due to insufficient match play and therefore match fitness and cohesion howed thru in last 2 days.
• Basic errors in set pieces(pick and drive: clearing out, running away from support players, and general handling errors were exaserpated by immature Individual decisions that did not provide the best of options available for the better execution of a certain team drive and immobilising some exciting and explosive plays created out wide.
• However as shown by Qld 2 #'s 14 &11(Lea& Alatoa), straight hard running and inside ball at pace will always smash thru a brick wall defense) or at least setup easy over the advantage line attack.
• I am not sure if its 'under instructions' but both teams were guilty of kicking away possession in attacking field zones .
• Qld have the talent and the ability if they can just play like a team and contribute by doing the basics right.
• My standouts for Qld are:

Qld 1:

1. Harry Wilson
2. Cambell Parata(hope hes ok)
3. Jangala Bennett
4. Clinton Malolua
5. and Tom Kibble was aggressive in Defense

Qld 2:

1. Viliami Lea
2. Mila Alalatoa
3. Carter Gordon(courageous youngster reminds me of one skinny S LArkham)
4. Lachlan Connors tried his heart all day

 

[SOLE334]

ACT vs NSW 2:
Brilliant game of rugby. A game of 2 halves.
A very well coached ACT team out smarted their much bigger NSW opponents.
3 names in particular for me were standout for ACT and may have pencilled their surnames on the schoolboys 2017 list are:

1. #2 L Lonergan
2. #10 W Goddard
3. #15 Brendan Gimenez

 

[William88]

Just a few things:

I think there are some genuine concerns being raised from multiple parties about some issues in regards to player selections.

The fact the starting NSW 12 has now played nearly as much time as a reserve centre that was brought in yesterday is a concern.

The fact the starting 10 for NSW has played 25% of game time at 5/8 and the rest at fullback, while the starting 15 has played 25% of game time at fullback and the rest at 5/8 is a concern about the selections process.

The fact that Wallace has been playing centre all year at Waverley, but was instead over looked while in the shadows, in what appears to be a back room deal (as outlined by backline move) between the Knox and Barker coaches also appears to be a genuine concern.

The fact that the Barker coach is calling the Knox coach to select their players, while also making the movements in the 10 and 15 position also raises genuine concerns about what deal was made to move the player brought in from outside the shadows.

The general lack of transparency and communication from the coaches to players also appears to be a concern.

Raise these concerns with your schools, tell the sportsmasters, tell your principals and let the boys start focusing on the rugby.

This should be a good week for all players. Let's make sure we keep it positive and let's focus on those issues when the week is done.

There will be fallout as a result, no doubt, but for now focus on the rugby at hand.

 

[sidelineview]

I could be wrong but it seems to me that Wallace was considered as a winger only seeing as he played 11 for CAS2s.

 

[William88]

I could be wrong but it seems to me that Wallace was considered as a winger only seeing as he played 11 for CAS2s.

Accoridng to NSW Selectors today, Wallace was selected as the shadow centre/winger.

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

There is currently a lot of smoke.

But as I said, let's move on and focus on the rugby.

 

[Backline_Move]

It's looking bad as I have said above. If it was a Knox kid,I would expect Knox would be putting through formal complaints and rightfully so.

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

Do Waverley play in CAS?

Do they play both Barker and Knox in that comp? Have they played them yet?

 

[William88]

Do Waverley play in CAS?

Do they play both Barker and Knox in that comp? Have they played them yet?

They do play both those schools next term.

 

[jl75]

"I think the problem last year and probably this year as well is that Rugby didn't start till term 3, and selectors would have taken that into consideration. The boys had played very little rugby and not match fit at that stage."
Constructive feedback:

• Both Qld teams show obvious signs of an under prepared team. Much of the 'ironing out of the jinx' in the qld team's setup is highly likely due to insufficient match play and therefore match fitness and cohesion howed thru in last 2 days.
• Basic errors in set pieces(pick and drive: clearing out, running away from support players, and general handling errors were exaserpated by immature Individual decisions that did not provide the best of options available for the better execution of a certain team drive and immobilising some exciting and explosive plays created out wide.
• However as shown by Qld 2 #'s 14 &11(Lea& Alatoa), straight hard running and inside ball at pace will always smash thru a brick wall defense) or at least setup easy over the advantage line attack.
• I am not sure if its 'under instructions' but both teams were guilty of kicking away possession in attacking field zones .
• Qld have the talent and the ability if they can just play like a team and contribute by doing the basics right.
• My standouts for Qld are:

Qld 1:

1. Harry Wilson
2. Cambell Parata(hope hes ok)
3. Jangala Bennett
4. Clinton Malolua
5. and Tom Kibble was aggressive in Defense

Qld 2:

1. Viliami Lea
2. Mila Alalatoa
3. Carter Gordon(courageous youngster reminds me of one skinny S LArkham)
4. Lachlan Connors tried his heart all day

Very frustrating to watch today. IMO forwards need to do there job and that's without the ball. Stop focusing on the big carries and do some dirty work. The amount of times the 9's have to get in and clean out is terrible especially when you look at the numbers set in there pods, hence the slow ball. Coaches need to start enforcing roles and not leaving it up to the kids. Q1 has one of the biggest forward packs but can't dominate! Again players playing for themselves.
If they don't fix it tomorrow against NSW 2 will be a tough day at the office.

 

[sidelineview]

Ok, then if someone spoke to a selector and that was confirmed re Wallace, its a real disappointment and cause for an official complaint later. The coach is from Trinity and assistant coach from Barker.

I watched the NSW1 replay and can see Donaldson played most of the game at fullback. I thought they may have shared it between the 2.

Hopefully its balanced out tomorrow.

 

[CatchnPass]

After day 2 of play:

STANDINGS

POOL A

1. NSW I - 2 wins, +70

2. QLD II - 1 win, +12

3. Combined States - 1 win, -34

4. VIC - 0 wins, -48

POOL B

1. ACT - 2 wins, +4

2. NSW II - 1 win, +38

3. QLD I - 1 win, +16

4. WA - 0 wins, -54

For those wondering what final score was - ACT 31 - NSW II 29. Stunned ACT were able to come back after being down by 17 in H2. That is ticker.

Can ACT challenge a NSW 1 team that the bookies must have at steep odds on to take the title? Maybe, but they can't let NSW 1 get a 17 pt lead and seek to pull them back.

 

[amirite]

What happened was that 1 only got 20 mins in the 2nd half,and was originally chosen as the no 12, and the other got no time in his selected position no 10. He did play 15 but I can assure you nothing was explained to them.

So the fathers were propping them up after the game!

You seem like a reasonable person, and I could be misunderstanding as some context is lost on the forum, but honestly the expectation of minutes in certain positions based on jerseys reeks of entitlement to me.

I understand the boys have worked hard, but so have the other 22 and a substantial numbers of players not even lucky enough to be named in any jersey.

Nobody is entitled to a position, jersey, playing minutes etc. (beyond the tournament regulation of "everyone gets a start").

 

[Quick Hands]

You seem like a reasonable person, and I could be misunderstanding as some context is lost on the forum, but honestly the expectation of minutes in certain positions based on jerseys reeks of entitlement to me.

I understand the boys have worked hard, but so have the other 22 and a substantial numbers of players not even lucky enough to be named in any jersey.

Nobody is entitled to a position, jersey, playing minutes etc. (beyond the tournament regulation of "everyone gets a start").

Surely if a young man (who has probably invested many years of training and considerable emotional energy), is selected in a rep team in a particular position then he deserves to play in that position unless there are extraordinary circumstances. In which case I assume that the player would receive a detailed explanation from the coach. We are dealing with adolescents here who don't necessarily have the ability to look at things in the detached and emotionless manner in which you seem able.

EDIT: And with the greatest respect, your invocation of the term "entitlement" is not appropriate in this instance.

 

[Rich_E]

@KicknChase, no, Myers has been fit all season I think. Smith, who was picked at starting 13, limped off injured in first half in GPS v CAS (and looked good whilst out there). Perhaps he should not have been selected for NSW.

Smith played 13 for NSW 1 on Monday (I am fairly certain) in second half, at least. He must have aggrevated injury from CAS v GPS game.
.