Bledisloe #2 - AUS v NZL, Eden Park, Auckland, August 15th

[Marcelo]

Yes we can. That's how it works. When reliable players play below par the team performance drops.

Saying a player should not be blamed for a bad game because he's normally good is one of the most fuckwitted comments I've ever read.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a huge one to blame. Due to the out of character nature of the performance, that should not change his standing in the team.

Are u chasing me? Stalker

 

[Train Without a Station]

and I am still wondering what Jones did wrong after being probably the best lock in Oz in the S15 on stats. Some things I doubt we'll ever know the answer to.

What he did was not play a defined role.

What most people missed in the article was the note that on the game Force Fan analysed ruck work, Jones averaged 17 ruck involvements per 80, the lowest of all. Simmons averaged 34 whilst the remainder were around 25.

Simply wasn't smashing rucks like we want in a tight lock and didn't steal line outs with the frequency of Simmons (1st with 5 from 8) or even Horwill (6 from 13).

What Jones did wrong was play like a good team man filling the 6 and 8 roles left unfulfilled by playing 2 open sides all year, whilst packing down at lock.

 

[boyo]

And QH and IS hardly relevant. Isn't this how people used to look in games back in your playing days?View attachment 6787

Poor form.

 

[KOB1987]

well at least we won the netball!

 

[TOCC]

and I am still wondering what Jones did wrong after being probably the best lock in Oz in the S15 on stats. Some things I doubt we'll ever know the answer to.

That's what I want to know, I thought he should have been one of the first picked, I would have liked to see him trialled at blindside flanker as well.


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[KOB1987]

That's what I want to know, I thought he should have been one of the first picked, I would have liked to see him trialled at blindside flanker as well.


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TWAS answered the question pretty well above.

 

[galumay]

You and others have been saying this since Deans took over. Genuine critique forces improvement and is really the only way to achieve improvement. That critique is often most helpful coming from outside an insular environment.

Your way is a fatalistic throwing up of the hands saying they did the best they could for average players.

I just don't accept your premise that the players have less potential than the AB players and as an example I would point out the scrum, same players who were getting dished up in tests a few years ago, can now dominate, because of coaching.

No one is listening to the so called "genuine critique" of the couch-coaches, never is how often it has contributed one iota to improvement in a professional sporting team.

Never has a coach or any othe selector gone on line and looked up what the couch-coaches are saying on the intrawebs and then changed their selections for a game.

The secret is we DONT know more than the guys paid shitloads of money to do the job - despite our hive-minds!

My way is saying that sometimes you are simply not as good as your opponents, sure Eddie Charlton lost a few frames, the Don got out a few times, and occasionally the ALl Blacks lose, but they have been the best in the world for decades and have always been damn near impossible to beat at home. Thats not fatalistic, its realistic.

Of course our players can improve, everyone can always do better, as you rightly say, our scrums have got a bit better with more focussed coaching, but there is still a significant gap between the the best team in the world and the rest.

 

[Gnostic]

What he did was not play a defined role.

What most people missed in the article was the note that on the game Force Fan analysed ruck work, Jones averaged 17 ruck involvements per 80, the lowest of all. Simmons averaged 34 whilst the remainder were around 25.

Simply wasn't smashing rucks like we want in a tight lock and didn't steal line outs with the frequency of Simmons (1st with 5 from 8) or even Horwill (6 from 13).

What Jones did wrong was play like a good team man filling the 6 and 8 roles left unfulfilled by playing 2 open sides all year, whilst packing down at lock.

That is the best explanation I have seen on it. But I would have thought if Chieka backed himself to get Horwill to play better from the 2 Red card man he was this year he would have backed himself to craft Jones into a 6 or a lock. Given the Rebels had the best scrum completion stats (SANZAR) in the Australian conference Jones could do the set peice work.

 

[Gnostic]

No one is listening to the so called "genuine critique" of the couch-coaches, never is how often it has contributed one iota to improvement in a professional sporting team.

Never has a coach or any othe selector gone on line and looked up what the couch-coaches are saying on the intrawebs and then changed their selections for a game.

The secret is we DONT know more than the guys paid shitloads of money to do the job - despite our hive-minds!

My way is saying that sometimes you are simply not as good as your opponents, sure Eddie Charlton lost a few frames, the Don got out a few times, and occasionally the ALl Blacks lose, but they have been the best in the world for decades and have always been damn near impossible to beat at home. Thats not fatalistic, its realistic.

Of course our players can improve, everyone can always do better, as you rightly say, our scrums have got a bit better with more focussed coaching, but there is still a significant gap between the the best team in the world and the rest.

Mate you should just hand in you membership of the forum and stop posting or even thinking about the game if that is the way you feel. You can gain nothing from even thinking about what improvements can be made and just accept that everyone who is not a natural star in whatever environment is second rate.

We know for a fact that many coaches often read the website, and some are actually posters. I don't flatter myself and think I have a great deal of value to add, but I know for a fact that there are posters here who do in fact know there stuff and are held in some regard.

Furthermore a lack of genuine fan critique of both playing and management, which well run forums like GAGR (which don't allow the OTT abuse and degradation of people) facilitate, actually will motivate change in organisations. Take the Tahs and the NSWRU for instance, the ARU with Deans and now the pressure the QRU is being exposed to. It would be naive to think that those managers are not aware of the critique they are getting when it effects their bottom line.

Finally if the Rugby managers in this country were even half as good as you seem to think the game wouldn't have slid from its No2 place in terms of fans and be almost broke and that goes for coaching too.

I will keep doing my part to drive improvement, as little an insignificant as it is.

 

[wamberal]

That is the best explanation I have seen on it. But I would have thought if Chieka backed himself to get Horwill to play better from the 2 Red card man he was this year he would have backed himself to craft Jones into a 6 or a lock. Given the Rebels had the best scrum completion stats (SANZAR) in the Australian conference Jones could do the set peice work.

Sadly, I suspect that Cheika formed the same impression that I did from Jones' time as a Wallaby.

I thought he looked and played like an overawed kid who was happy just to have made it onto the field.


Jones needs to toughen up - he has some talent, but not enough mongrel.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But again Gnostic, in the article I pointed out that Horwill received a Red Card in Round 1 and possibly Round 4. He had the next 10 games to show it was an aberration, not a trend.

Had this happened in Round 10 and 14 he would not have had opportunity to redeem himself and show it to be not a problem.

So Cheika hasn't exactly taken a huge risk. He's just assumed the trend of improved discipline will continue.

 

[Chris McCracken]

If you were in a team I was coaching you wouldn't be if you played 7 and wore moulded soles.

I'm not sure I know a back rower who doesn't wear moulded soles on firm ground. In fact, Adidas have even rebadged their old loose forward boot as a tight forward boot because no-one would buy it.

they are sponsored by asics who have the best range of boots for forwards and backs.

Almost the entire range of Asics boots are moulded. I'm pretty sure the only ones that aren't are the ones called "Tight Five", but I could be wrong.

Frankly, if it is good enough for Dan Carter for the whole if his career on all continents and every island to wear metal sprigs then no princess in this country should do otherwise

Oddly, Dan Carter's signature model boots are moulded only. Go figure.

http://news.adidas.com/GLOBAL/Products/The-adidas-DC100/s/8a04f0d8-1460-44e8-93e5-a5360362a1f5

I make two observations from this:

1. There are moulded and screw-ins which are perfectly appropriate for different conditions

2. I spend far too much time in sports stores with the boy.

 

[alex5545]

Matt Burke
Ben Tune
Dan Herbert
Tim Horan
Joe Roff
Stephen Larkham
George Gregan
Toutai Kefu
David Wilson
Matt Cockbain
John Eales
David Giffin
Andrew Blades
Michael Foley
Carl Hayman

 

[Slim 293]

I don't remember Carl Hayman playing in the 1999 RWC winning team...........

In fact, I don't recall him ever playing for Australia...........

 

[KOB1987]

I don't remember Carl Hayman playing in the 1999 RWC winning team.....

In fact, I don't recall him ever playing for Australia.....

That's a fuck up. Was it Dick Harry or Rod Moore?

 

[Dan54]

One other thing that made me happy about the win last night was the ABs black boots, there is the proof that was needed, you want your forwards to play proper rugby, they must have BLACK rugby boots.

See you young buggers need to listen to us old buggers sometimes!!!

 

[Slim 293]

'twas Richard Harry.........

 

[KOB1987]

'twas Richard Harry...

Actually it might have been none of the above..Dan Crowley I think

 

[Slim 293]

Nah, Harry started......... Crowley came off the bench.

 

[Pfitzy]

Yep. Dick Harry, who played flanker, but wasn't going to cut it, then grew like a tree one off-season and came back as a prop.

Scrums were less important in that period it must be said.