Bledisloe 2 - Wallabies vs All Blacks, Wellington, 27 August 2016

[Joe Blow]

Agree with most here. The Pooper was great initially but the we have suffered at the lineout and in other areas as the opposition has worked out ways to counter it. I'd love to see Timani get a run at some point but this may not be the best test for him to start in. Playing McMahon at 8 with Pocock at 7 just shuffles deck chairs and makes our pack marginally weaker in most areas and only slightly better at lineout time.
Both Fardy and Mumm have packed down at 8 in Super rugby at times and are just as familiar with the position as Pocock. Why couldn't both of them start, one at 6 and the other at 8 with Hooper on the bench?
It would certainly shore up the lineout and give us the impact late in the game from the bench.
Hopefully Holloway will carry on where he left off when fit and put his hand up for the EOYT. Cottrell as well.
Big decisions need to be made by Cheika and co this week or else we will continue to slide.

 

[ACT Crusader]

The Pooper is something I'm not going to give up on as I believe we can be a very good lineout team with 3 genuine Jumpers. Fardy has to come back in at 6. Rob Simmons brings nothing to the table and I think Douglas is there for the long haul so I like the idea of Douglas, Coleman & fardy.
Stepehen Moore is not our best hooker and to be honest would be lucky to come in as our 3rd choice. I'd Sart with TPN and Finish with James Hanson.

With Giteau & To'omua out I really hope Cheika takes a punt on a genuine 12 in Kyle Godwin. My Team for Wellington.

1.Slipper
2.TPN
3.Kepu
4. Coleman
5.Douglas
6.Fardy
7.Hooper - (C)
8.Pocock
9.Genia
10. Foley
11.DHP - trust your inside man FFS
12.Kyle Godwin
13. Kerevi
14.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15.Folau
res: Hanson, AAAAA, Sio, Mumm, McMahon, Phipps, Quade, Morahan.

Got to go for it now, no use losing with Moore and Simmons again we might as well start building now as it looks like the Bledisloe is gone and it only took 20 mniutes. Drop Kudriani to give him a kick in the arse.

So when's the press conference?

A proud rugby nation like Australia isn't just going to drop their captain without an announcement and justifying it publicly.

It would create more of a storm which they quite frankly don't need right now.

He's out of form and has been having issues with several different refs, but I doubt he is being dropped.

Interesting that everyone appears to be selecting Fardy after calls for a change after the England series. He's all of a sudden in form now? I must have missed that in his short cameo off the bench.

Slipper needs to come back into the starting lineup IMO. He does bring some edginess which all good props have.

 

[Bullrush]

I'm wondering if @Forcefan has any breakdown stats from Saturday?

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't really accept that those guys hindered the development, more the talent just never came through. Cottrell is the only one in the last few years that has shown promise but he just hasn't quite gotten to the next step of hitting the Wallabies. Quirk and Browning at the Reds are too short and similarly haven't developed enough (both had ample games before Thomson and Tui).

McMeniman was our real guy that meets your requirements, but his body never stayed fit for long enough.

Leroy would be the closest that gets to what you're after, but he'd have to lose 5-10 kilos and who knows how much that'd affect his game.

Cottrell has had a bad run with injuries. When he's fit, he is the best 6/8 in the Force squad but lately he needs to tone down his aggression just a tad. Could be a good copy of Melon if given a chance and some good leadership.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't really understand why we can't do what the English have done fairly successfully. Get a bunch of young, talented players and train them as a team. The lack of cohesion is so painfully obvious and i refuse to buy this 'we lack the young talent' bullshit. We have the talent it just doesn't get nurtured. I don't know about other teams in detail but the Tahs have players like Holloway, Kellaway, Robertson etc. coming through who could all be class with training and experience. Players like Timani and Coleman could both easily develop into better players than bloody Simmons and Douglas.

To that end i say we play the kids, ditch the tried and failed and actually put some time into developing a team with an emphasis on a common skillset and gameplan as well as transceding state rivalries. Even if it means short term losses. Heck even if we lose every game this season. Delayed gratification works in every other aspect of life, why not rugby?

Support this all the way. Young players around the squad now need to be retained, Kerevi, Hodge, Ala'alatoa, Robertson, but others like Kellaway and Holloway should come in too. Then from the Brumbies, Tom Staniforth and Joe Powell.

Come 2019, we would be more likely to have a side that can compete with the best, barring NZ probably.

 

[ForceFan]

I'm wondering if @Forcefan has any breakdown stats from Saturday?

Be patient Bullrush - just steeling myself to watch the game for the 3rd time.

A quick rundown of top Wallabies Ruck Involvements:

FULL GAME
Pocock - 39 Total (17 Attack/22 Defence) - 7TOW (1TOW/3DRIs)
Douglas - 33T (28A/5D)
Hooper - 27T (14A/13D) - 1TOW (1TOW/13DRIs)

50-60 Mins
McCalman - 25T (15A/10D)
Sio - 18T (9A/9D)
Moore - 18T (11A/7D)
Kepu - 13T (11A/2D)
Simmons - 10T (8A/2D)

Mumm - 11T (10A/1D) - 34 Mins.

BEST BACK
Kuridrani - 21T (13A/8D)

 

[tragic]

True.

But who is your mythical 8 that is better? Not McCalman on any evidence so far.

We don't have a mythical 8 but we need to play our best 8 who is a decent line out option and offers more work in tight than hooper. Before game one I would have picked a back row of pocock,Fardy, McCalman. Now I'd like too see how Timani goes at 8. Neither are as good in general play as hooper but we need size, dominant tackles, aggression in contact, and ball carrying around the ruck. Let the backs run the wider channels hooper usually likes.
I want 4 jumpers in game 2. The ABs will still fancy their chances against 3. I don't want to lose another attacking line out in their 22. Ever.

 

[Quick Hands]

Support this all the way. Young players around the squad now need to be retained, Kerevi, Hodge, Ala'alatoa, Robertson, but others like Kellaway and Holloway should come in too. Then from the Brumbies, Tom Staniforth and Joe Powell.

Absolutely agree. Can't see the point or the long term benefit to Australian rugby in bringing blokes who are in the twilight of their career back from Europe at the expense of rising talent who are sloggin it out in super rugby. If we're going to lose, we might as well do so with youngsters who are going to improve.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I have no expectation of the Wallabies winning the Wellington test, but if some important team and game plan changes are brought in, I'll be happy to see them just try their guts out. Then keep them together and let them develop over a period of 12 months or so.

Need to go now - Moore (bring in Ready); Simmons (Arnold/Coleman/Staniforth); McCalman (McMahon, Timani until Holloway can take the spot); Giteau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Mitchell.

Foley and Hooper to remain in the squad but replaced in the starting side for the RC.

 

[tragic]

Be patient Bullrush - just steeling myself to watch the game for the 3rd time.

Seriously!! That's impressive dedication.
I'd rather listen to the frozen soundtrack on repeat for a week than watch that game again.
I struggled to watch it once.
And I was pissed.

 

[Joe Blow]

Henry Speight is fit, available and will play in the NRC to try and get selection for the later stages of the RC.

 

[notapatrioticboneinme]

Michael Hooper, "“We’ve got 11 more chances this year, not just Bledisloe, but 11 chances this year to go out and prove that.”"

Methinks they'll need all 11 of them to get one (maybe).

 

[KOB1987]

Henry Speight is fit, available and will play in the NRC to try and get selection for the later stages of the RC.

If he gets through this week that's late enough for me

 

[Viking]

Henry Speight is fit, available and will play in the NRC to try and get selection for the later stages of the RC.

Hopefully rugby sevens was a blessing and he was able to get his explosiveness back.

 

[Viking]

Michael Hooper, "“We’ve got 11 more chances this year, not just Bledisloe, but 11 chances this year to go out and prove that.”"

Methinks they'll need all 11 of them to get one (maybe).

That's a poor attitude in my opinion. It's kind of like saying, "It's okay if we loss the next game because we have more chances later".

Focus should be solely on winning the next game.

 

[Viking]

Interesting that everyone appears to be selecting Fardy after calls for a change after the England series. He's all of a sudden in form now? I must have missed that in his short cameo off the bench.

I wasn't a lack of effort that got him dropped from the England series. Or a lack of mongrel. He clearly tried his gutts out in the series.

It was a lack of discipline and a few dropped balls, maybe a lack of fitness.

Plus he has been a consistent high performer in the past. McCalman has only rarely played at his level.

 

[Brumby Runner]

That's a poor attitude in my opinion. It's kind of like saying, "It's okay if we loss the next game because we have more chances later".

Focus should be solely on winning the next game.

Can't agree Seb. Focus now should be on 2017 - 2019. Start now to bring in the players who are most likely to those we rely on in the run up to and in the 2019 RWC. I don't have any expectation we'll beat the ABs this year or next. But if we start to look to the future we might be in a posion to compete with them in a couple of years time.

 

[Ignoto]

Can't agree Seb. Focus now should be on 2017 - 2019. Start now to bring in the players who are most likely to those we rely on in the run up to and in the 2019 RWC. I don't have any expectation we'll beat the ABs this year or next. But if we start to look to the future we might be in a posion to compete with them in a couple of years time.

I could have sworn this is a copy and paste right around Deans's sacking just that the years have been changed?

 

[Viking]

Can't agree Seb. Focus now should be on 2017 - 2019. Start now to bring in the players who are most likely to those we rely on in the run up to and in the 2019 RWC. I don't have any expectation we'll beat the ABs this year or next. But if we start to look to the future we might be in a posion to compete with them in a couple of years time.

Focus for players should be on winning the next game. Coaches can think differently. We can't have developing players happy to let the next game go with the chance of winning the next

Hell they might not even be selected next game, so that attitude is wrong for players in my opinion.

But i agree the overall plan from coaches should no be towards 2017-2019.

 

[Pfitzy]

Expectations are pretty low right now, so yeah we should capitalise on that and get the right cattle moving now.

The ARU should also use this low period to justify reformation of the systems, and jettisoning the politics.

The NZRFU made these decisions years ago and are reaping the benefits of a cohesive national Union.