Bledisloe 2 - Wallabies vs All Blacks, Wellington, 27 August 2016

[Viking]

Expectations are pretty low right now, so yeah we should capitalise on that and get the right cattle moving now.

The ARU should also use this low period to justify reformation of the systems, and jettisoning the politics.

The NZRFU made these decisions years ago and are reaping the benefits of a cohesive national Union.

I agree. Time to blood Timani, Colman, Kerevi, Hodge. They are the only realistic options who are in the squad right now.

Start at least 2 with 2 on the bench. Hodge on the bench.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Chek will make some changes but not wholesale. He will continue to pick some that just shouldn't be there for all sorts of reasons. He will tough it out and hope like shit this week turns around.

Keps has been underdone in the English series and last week as well. He didn't have the super season to get back to real fitness or his RWC form. He may be at risk but his replacement is brand new. Holmes was really the answer but that won't happen. Would start Slipper over Sio.

Think he will stick with the Hooper and Pocock combo (which I disagree with) and bring Fardy back in (McCalman didn't take his opportunity). Still cannot see McMahon getting a gig.

Simmons gone and I reckon his Wallaby days are looking real shakey with the young guys coming through. Coleman and Douglas this week.

Genia was OK last week and should start again.

Cooper will definitely start which will be interesting. He is much more "mature" now, has heaps of ability but hasn't shown that for quite a while. The crowd will be against him and he will be placed under incredible pressure by the AB's. I think (and hope) he has a blinder.

Who the fuck plays 12? Giteau and Matt gone - only leaves Kerevi and dare I say it, Foley. Chek obviously loves the bloke. Would like to see Folau play 13 and drop TK altogether.

Hopefully Mitchell is OK to play and give him and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to wing spots

Have advocated dropping Moore from the team and Captaincy but the reality is that won't happen. Chek needs to make a brave decision there but he won't at this stage.

 

[ACT Crusader]

I wasn't a lack of effort that got him dropped from the England series. Or a lack of mongrel. He clearly tried his gutts out in the series.

It was a lack of discipline and a few dropped balls, maybe a lack of fitness.

Plus he has been a consistent high performer in the past. McCalman has only rarely played at his level.

From my armchair I saw a player who was lacking the same physicality and impact at the collision that I had seen previously. More walking than usual. Perhaps that was due to fitness, but that certainly impacted on his "mongrel" at the breakdown and the level of his decision making.

I can't really comment on effort. I don't doubt his commitment at all, but the output wasn't there.

I'm genuinely curious to know where that has changed to justify why he should be back in the starting XV.

 

[Viking]

Who the fuck plays 12? Giteau and Matt gone - only leaves Kerevi and dare I say it, Foley. Chek obviously loves the bloke. Would like to see Folau play 13 and drop TK altogether.
.

Foley would make an amazing 12 in my opinion. Very similar skill-set to Horan. First instinct is to run himself and is very good at that, combined with decent distribution skills, amazing support runner.

His defence has gotten a lot better but probably still not strong enough for a 12. It's a shame he didn't start his career as a strong defender then he might have ended up there.

Although maybe the Horan style 12 is dead these days anyway. And I definitely wouldn't start him at 12 given zero experience. Realistically Foley can only be considered for 10 maybe 15.

 

[Braveheart81]

I find it kind of amazing that one bad game and a lot of the blame is being pointed at the players returning from Europe as well as agreeing with a Spiro Zavos article.

Giteau got injured which did not help but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had a solid game and we are well and truly struggling for viable wing options right now and his versatility was valuable after three backline injuries.

I am sure when the 3-2-1 votes are added up, Genia will be the GAGR MOTM. When people are criticising the selection of the European players he gets conveniently left out because clearly we do need him.

There are certainly young players within this squad that deserve to play tests during the Rugby Championship and I'm sure they will but some of the suggestions about picking a whole bunch of players who've played a handful of Super Rugby games and have barely cemented a place in a Super Rugby matchday 23 because they might be a star by 2019 seems fraught with danger to me.

If we go back a few years on the forum, half the players touted as the next great Wallabies aren't even close to the mark now and that is sure to be the case again. It is notoriously hard to pick who will really take that step up to the next level a few years out.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm genuinely curious to know where that has changed to justify why he should be back in the starting XV.

Because McCalman was completely ineffectual.

 

[KOB1987]

From my armchair I saw a player who was lacking the same physicality and impact at the collision that I had seen previously. More walking than usual. Perhaps that was due to fitness, but that certainly impacted on his "mongrel" at the breakdown and the level of his decision making.

I can't really comment on effort. I don't doubt his commitment at all, but the output wasn't there.

I'm genuinely curious to know where that has changed to justify why he should be back in the starting XV.

In his 22 minutes he had 1 carry for 0 metres, made 2 tackles and missed 3. (According to Vodacom stats).

The primary argument for his inclusion is to aid the lineout.

I'm not advocating the below at all, but if Cheika isn't sold on starting him and thinks that McCalman blew his chance (or the lineout blew it for him), and Simmons goes, we could see:

4. Douglas
5. Coleman
6. Mumm
7. Hooper
8. Pocock

19. Skelton
20. Fardy

Or a variation of that.

 

[Viking]

From my armchair I saw a player who was lacking the same physicality and impact at the collision that I had seen previously. More walking than usual. Perhaps that was due to fitness, but that certainly impacted on his "mongrel" at the breakdown and the level of his decision making.

I can't really comment on effort. I don't doubt his commitment at all, but the output wasn't there.

I'm genuinely curious to know where that has changed to justify why he should be back in the starting XV.

Fair enough, but I still think a down Fardy is better then what McCalman brought last night. As bad as the England series was he's the lesser shit out of of the two.

If your gunna go with some-one else, based on last weekends performance, then Mumm is the only man left standing. He was actually okay last weekend.

 

[tragic]

I'm waiting for force fans stats before I Comment on team for this week.
I can't be bothered watching the game again but on first impressions I didn't think Simmons was any worse than Douglas so it's interesting to see all the calls for him to make way.
4,5,6 seemed all equally crap to me. Including the subs in those positions.
Coleman and Timani need a run, but I can't decide for who.
I'd be tempted to play Timani at 8, which leaves Douglas, Simmons, Coleman, Mumm and Fardy for 4-6. Toss a coin for who sits on the pines. I really hope Cheiks doesn't see Skelton as the answer but I fear this may be the case.
Changes in the backs seem much more obvious.

 

[cyclopath]

Chek will make some changes but not wholesale. He will continue to pick some that just shouldn't be there for all sorts of reasons. He will tough it out and hope like shit this week turns around.

Keps has been underdone in the English series and last week as well. He didn't have the super season to get back to real fitness or his RWC form. He may be at risk but his replacement is brand new. Holmes was really the answer but that won't happen. Would start Slipper over Sio.

Think he will stick with the Hooper and Pocock combo (which I disagree with) and bring Fardy back in (McCalman didn't take his opportunity). Still cannot see McMahon getting a gig.

Simmons gone and I reckon his Wallaby days are looking real shakey with the young guys coming through. Coleman and Douglas this week.

Genia was OK last week and should start again.

Cooper will definitely start which will be interesting. He is much more "mature" now, has heaps of ability but hasn't shown that for quite a while. The crowd will be against him and he will be placed under incredible pressure by the AB's. I think (and hope) he has a blinder.

Who the fuck plays 12? Giteau and Matt gone - only leaves Kerevi and dare I say it, Foley. Chek obviously loves the bloke. Would like to see Folau play 13 and drop TK altogether.

Hopefully Mitchell is OK to play and give him and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to wing spots

Have advocated dropping Moore from the team and Captaincy but the reality is that won't happen. Chek needs to make a brave decision there but he won't at this stage.

Re 12 - Heard of Hodge? He's in the squad, and has been talked about a bit.


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[Lorenzo]

I find it kind of amazing that one bad game and a lot of the blame is being pointed at the players returning from Europe as well as agreeing with a Spiro Zavos article.

Giteau got injured which did not help but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had a solid game and we are well and truly struggling for viable wing options right now and his versatility was valuable after three backline injuries.

I am sure when the 3-2-1 votes are added up, Genia will be the GAGR MOTM. When people are criticising the selection of the European players he gets conveniently left out because clearly we do need him.

There are certainly young players within this squad that deserve to play tests during the Rugby Championship and I'm sure they will but some of the suggestions about picking a whole bunch of players who've played a handful of Super Rugby games and have barely cemented a place in a Super Rugby matchday 23 because they might be a star by 2019 seems fraught with danger to me.

If we go back a few years on the forum, half the players touted as the next great Wallabies aren't even close to the mark now and that is sure to be the case again. It is notoriously hard to pick who will really take that step up to the next level a few years out.

In the thread I link below you claimed that we're better with these guys in the side, in addition to Mitchell. So far that hasn't been the case at all. Even adjusting for quality of opposition, the performance in Bled 1 was inferior to all of the performances against England.

Giteau was having a shit game in the time before he went off. A 40 metre line drive down Dagg's throat under zero pressure helped the ABS set up first try. Is that the kind of 'experience' we are after? Can he not find some grass or kick the thing out after playing 100+ tests?

Mitchell hasn't played any footy since early April whilst he recovers from a busted groin. What possible use is he to us against the All Blacks or Springboks?

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) may not have had several major fuckups which i guess puts him bast on ground in gold but he did watch Barrett walk his first try in whilst arguing with Pocock as to who should tackle who (he then gave up the pursuit whilst Barrett improved the position to make the kick easier).

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/wallabies-2016-and-onwards.16224/page-115

The reason people don't criticize Genia's return is not because it's 'convenient', it's because it isn't completely dumb to bring back a guy who is still only 28 years old.

If there's going to be a trivial amount of pain blooding new players, we might as well do it now, because this group sucks even with the older players.

 

[Braveheart81]

In the thread I link below you claimed that we're better with these guys in the side, in addition to Mitchell. So far that hasn't been the case at all. Even adjusting for quality of opposition, the performance in Bled 1 was inferior to all of the performances against England.

Yes that was easily the worst of our four tests this year. The opposition were also substantially better than England. There's plenty of press around the rugby world praising the All Blacks for how great they were.

We generally have been a better team with these guys playing and they were all important to us at the RWC.

Who knows what would have happened without them but it seems like a pretty small target to focus in on the foreign players when overwhelmingly we got pasted in the forwards.

I have no idea what Mitchell's fitness will be like and whether he will benefit the side if and when he gets picked during the Rugby Championship but it is crystal clear that wing is one area we are short on given who is currently available.

 

[todd4]

Simmons 5 runs for 2m, Missed 1 tackle, completed 11

Douglas 6 runs for 5m, but 3 missed tackles, completed 11.
Maybe we should think about dropping Douglas before Simmons?

So Simmons averaged 16 inches per run and Douglas averaged 33 inches. Sounds like Douglas was the star performer.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Yes that was easily the worst of our four tests this year. The opposition were also substantially better than England. There's plenty of press around the rugby world praising the All Blacks for how great they were.

We generally have been a better team with these guys playing and they were all important to us at the RWC.

Who knows what would have happened without them but it seems like a pretty small target to focus in on the foreign players when overwhelmingly we got pasted in the forwards.

I have no idea what Mitchell's fitness will be like and whether he will benefit the side if and when he gets picked during the Rugby Championship but it is crystal clear that wing is one area we are short on given who is currently available.

To me we got pasted in the forwards BUT ALSO WE WERE FLOGGED IN THE BACKS

 

[Scrubber2050]

So Simmons averaged 16 inches per run and Douglas averaged 33 inches. Sounds like Douglas was the star performer.

"They" say its a game of inches

 

[biggsy]

I'm really looking forward to this game. And thats because I'm getting to watch Beauden Barrett not the Wallabies

 

[Viking]

I'm really looking forward to this game. And thats because I'm getting to watch Beauren Barrett not the Wallabies

I'm looking forward to watching A.Savea from the bench. Also I've always been a doubter of Cane but he played really well last weekend I can see why he's first choice.

But Savea is just so entertaining to watch!

 

[ACT Crusader]

Because McCalman was completely ineffectual.

Don't disagree with you there BH.

I guess the decision they have is whether they give McCalman another shot to redeem himself or go back to someone that has done the job prior but hasn't really shown anything to say he has improved from his last outing.

 

[Slim 293]

I was surprised by Fardy being dropped because while his form was down, it wasn't as much as several other players who were retained............

McCalman has a good workrate, but has often been ineffectual for the Wobs............

I think Fardy's impact around the ground, and reliability in the lineout is too important to leave out.

 

[Slim 293]

But more importantly, this...........