British & Irish Lions tour of New Zealand (2017)

[Tigger]

Wow...what a series! Did Gatland and Hansen have a "catch up/beer " after the match?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

First thought was “great, Read’s clattered the guy in the air, pen red, kick it in the stands, series over. Draw.”

Pressure. Poite, suddenly besieged with visions of Joubert bolting from the field after the Scotland debacle suddenly morphed, in the space of a jelly-kneed 5 yard walk to the touchline and back, into Inspector Clouseau of the New French Scotland Yard.

“HEYYY, you can’t end the series on a call like that! I won’t let you!”
“Oh. Sorry. Ok, um, uhhhhhhhhh, no penalty, scrum black.”

Might need to bust out some ms paint arrows and random photo stills for this one….

 

[cyclopath]

First thought was “great, Read’s clattered the guy in the air, pen red, kick it in the stands, series over. Draw.”

Pressure. Poite, suddenly besieged with visions of Joubert bolting from the field after the Scotland debacle suddenly morphed, in the space of a jelly-kneed 5 yard walk to the touchline and back, into Inspector Clouseau of the New French Scotland Yard.

“HEYYY, you can’t end the series on a call like that! I won’t let you!”
“Oh. Sorry. Ok, um, uhhhhhhhhh, no penalty, scrum black.”

Might need to bust out some ms paint arrows and random photo stills for this one….

This explains it all much better.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Pressure. Poite, suddenly besieged with visions of Joubert bolting from the field after the Scotland debacle suddenly morphed,

Might need to bust out some ms paint arrows and random photo stills for this one….

Busting out a World Rugby press release, might explain more that ms paint arrows and photo stills

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/115761?lang=en

It comes down to if you believe the ball was played at? Technically yes, but immediately dropped it and corrected the situation. Players correct strict technical breaches through out a game, go a step or two offside early and retreat, take their hands off ball in a ruck based on referee instructions, tackle release based on referee instruction etc. If referees didn't allow players to correct technical breaches the game would never flow!

And World Rugby even make Joubert do a Youtube video about it

What I am most interested to know from World Rugby is how come Keiran Read did not come off for a concussion assessment, that is in my eyes the most serious issue to come out of the game, as it is health and player safety. Either it's incompetence/negligence of the medical staff or do World Rugby have different rules for the All Blacks.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Just watched the accidental offside incident. That was almost picture perfect of what happened between Australia and Scotland back in 2015.

World Rugby "admitted" that Joubert got his decision (a penalty) wrong. So who is right? Joubert or Poite (with the accidental off-side)? By my interpretation of the law, I'd call both a penalty. Even if it is instinct, both players moved their hands to play the ball. Having said that, World Rugby has already deemed that situation to be an accidental offside based on the ugly denouncement of Joubert. Kiwis could feel robbed by the decision, but there is a precedent and to be fair, you had plenty of wasted opportunities to put the game away earlier on. I saw somewhere that there was an argument that Read jumped for the ball but didn't appear to be going for it at all and was just being a nuisance- not far off the mark if you ask me.

If Joubert's decision was different and we had lost to Scotland back in 2015, I'd have felt pissed off- but I would also have known that we fucked up a lot of things all on our own such that Joubert's decision shouldn't have mattered.

100%

Joubert was torn to shreds by Wallabies haters and Poite is being torn to shreds by AB fans. He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

You can't say you were clearly better based on one call that happens to be at the end of the game.

Also, they had the ABs had a set play opportunity in attacking half and fucked it up; Barret's kicking has been very consistent in this series in any case so the penalty goal is no sure thing. The game was still in the ABs hands and they couldn't win it.

 

[Forcefield]

The inexplicable thing about poite a decision is that he reviewed for foul play, didn't see any and then confirmed with the tmo his original decision is correct. Penalty to black. Tmo agrees. No other outcome was discussed.

Then without mewing it again or saying another word he then gives a completely new decision.

The mental bastard

Oh and everyone moans about the ref. Everyone

Deadset. I love to complain about the refs during Force games but I just try to keep it off the forums because Shiggins uses up all of our quota.

 

[Brumby Runner]

1. Red koala in the right hand corner.
2. Kerevi was sent off for interfering with the player in the air when he he caught the f'ing ball
3. By comparison, Reid was not even in the same country as where that ball was.
4. Reds fans had to cop a lot of "rub of the green" and "ref is always right" calls after that call.
5. All of the above allows me to say whatever the fuck I like to anyone about this incident with impunity and anyone that disagrees with me is wrong.



Edit: and I can't wait for Spiro's salty article this week. I might even get up especially early to get the first comment in just to properly set the tone of that thread and make it really take off.

I have a different slant Gel.

Read was doing just what he does every game and is very good at; chasing the kick off and either retrieving the ball himself or batting it back to his supports.

He did not get to the same height in the air as the jumper though when competing for the ball. Earlier this year, James Dargaville was YCed for not getting to the same height as the receiver when he very legitimately was keeping his eyes on the ball and was unaware of the opposition player also going for it. Even though I think both Dargaville and Read were faultless, if there was any consistency in the officiating Read would have been YCed for that incident.

However, Poite not having pulled him up, then the Lions' No 2 was definitely, in my eyes, offside and intentionally even if semi-reactively, played at the ball and the penalty should have stood.

 

[todd4]

The inexplicable thing about poite a decision is that he reviewed for foul play, didn't see any and then confirmed with the tmo his original decision is correct. Penalty to black. Tmo agrees. No other outcome was discussed.

Then without mewing it again or saying another word he then gives a completely new decision.

The mental bastard

Oh and everyone moans about the ref. Everyone

True, I just hope Shiggins uses this line as his signature.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

That was all a bit bizarre at the end and Poite I thought got talked into changing his original call. On the basis of the hoo-ha over Jourbert's call in the World Cup I can understand going with a scrum in the end. The question for me is what the laws actually say. Was it a penalty or not?

 

[Strewthcobber]

That was all a bit bizarre at the end and Poite I thought got talked into changing his original call. On the basis of the hoo-ha over Jourbert's call in the World Cup I can understand going with a scrum in the end. The question for me is what the laws actually say. Was it a penalty or not?

Take your pick from rugby's conflicting law book TBH


11.6 Accidental offside

(a) When an offside player cannot avoid being touched by the ball or by a team-mate carrying it, the player is accidentally offside. If the player’s team gains no advantage from this, play continues. If the player’s team gains an advantage, a scrum is formed with the opposing team throwing in the ball.

(b) When a player hands the ball to a team-mate in front of the first player, the receiver is offside. Unless the receiver is considered to be intentionally offside (in which case a penalty kick is awarded), the receiver is accidentally offside and a scrum is formed with the opposing team throwing in the ball.

11.7 Offside after a knock-on

When a player knocks-on and an offside team-mate next plays the ball, the offside player is liable to sanction if playing the ball prevented an opponent from gaining an advantage.

Sanction: Penalty kick



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[RedsHappy]

By any criteria that's wise, this tour was a marvellous win for the Lions, and the very concept of them.

Most observers severely underestimate the coaching and other difficulties of assembling elite players that rarely if ever have played together before, then have them together for only 6 or so weeks, and then travel half way around the world to attempt to beat the world's best team in their home dens.

Successful teams typically take some years to construct and consistency of culture, coaches and playing combinations is a major part of that outcome.

To go to NZ with an entirely synthetic team and hold the ABs to 1-1-0 is unarguably a fantastic achievement by the players, the coaches (especially the oft-maligned Gatland) and the team managers.

And too a wonderful rugby feast for fans of all mark and colour. I for one loved every minute of every match, it revived and encouraged my love of the game.

For we Aussie fans drinking just the local cheap plonk all season infused with risky contaminants, the Lions series was to imbibe a fine Bordeaux.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Having looked at the replay a few times now I'm not even convinced it went forward.

 

[zer0]

It doesn't matter if the ball went forward or not.

11.1 Offside in general play
(b) Offside and interfering with play. A player who is offside must not take part in the game. This means the player must not play the ball or obstruct an opponent.

Owens plays the ball (catches it) from in front of Williams. Ergo, he is offside.

 

[RedsHappy]

Interesting piece by Sir Clive W, especially re the question of why the ABs did not go for the drop goal (no doubt November 2003 was in his mind!):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...210/New-Zealand-mystique-gone-Lions-draw.html

 

[Strewthcobber]

It doesn't matter if the ball went forward or not.

11.1 Offside in general play
(b) Offside and interfering with play. A player who is offside must not take part in the game. This means the player must not play the ball or obstruct an opponent.

Owens plays the ball (catches it) from in front of Williams. Ergo, he is offside.

It's a good point - you could argue the laws don't allow for accidental offside after a knock on though (edit - if you play it). So it does make a difference

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[The_Brown_Hornet]

Looking at that replay and reading the laws Strewth so kindly quoted above it sure looks offside to me, just like the Scotland situation. It wasn't deliberate but I now feel the original decision was the right one. There was an All Black player who could have received that ball from the contest as well, which makes it even more offside in my view. The Lions player would have been very hard done by but I think by the strict letter of the law it would have been correct.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

its a delicious irony that in trying to avoid Joubert's controversy Poite created his own which is arguably even worse.

Having looked at the replay a few times now I'm not even convinced it went forward.

Arguable.
The best things about that clip are:

1. Nesbitt's impartial excitement when he thinks the ABs are going to get the penalty;
2. Marshall asserting it doesn't matter if its deliberate.

 

[Strewthcobber]

If it's accepted that 16 red played at the ball (and I don't think you could argue otherwise),

The only way Poite's decision makes sense is if he thinks it was knocked back, and 16 red couldn't avoid being touched by the ball.

That brings in the accidental offside

 

[Forcefield]

It doesn't matter if the ball went forward or not.

11.1 Offside in general play
(b) Offside and interfering with play. A player who is offside must not take part in the game. This means the player must not play the ball or obstruct an opponent.

Owens plays the ball (catches it) from in front of Williams. Ergo, he is offside.

That doesn't make sense. If the ball wasn't knocked forward, it is not a knock on. If it is not a knock on, he isn't offside because there is no offside line until the knock on occurs.

 

[Strewthcobber]

That doesn't make sense. If the ball wasn't knocked forward, it is not a knock on. If it is not a knock on, he isn't offside because there is no offside line until the knock on occurs.

>In general play a player is offside if the player is in front of a team-mate who is carrying the ball, or in front of a team-mate who last played the ball.

>Offside means that a player is temporarily out of the game. Such players are liable to be penalised if they take part in the game.



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