Clyde Rathbone

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>
Can you picture someone with a broad Aussie accent walking to Twickenham, Eden Park or Newlands clad in the local colors? It's a little bit odd but maybe that's just me.

Going back to the real old days.

I always chuckled at the BBC Series Porridge with the Afro-Scottish actor who played Jock McLaren (Tony Osoba according to wikipedia). The last thing you were expecting to hear when he spoke was a very broad Glaswegian Brogue. Things are not always as they seem.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I never get the argument (mostly made by nationalistic bogans) that "you live in our country now you should support our team".

I don't see it as hypocrisy at all that someone can become an Australian citizen and still support their country of origin. I think our multiculturalism is an intrinsic part of our culture and people continuing to celebrate their origins is important to that.

You should definitely support Australia when we're not playing South Africa though

You should also adopt our sentiment of anyone but the English as well.

I think the ABE philosophy is fairly strong in most countries.

Most of the (Non-England) foreign borns I know already subscribed to this before their arrival here.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>
Shifting allegiances, well that's a whole other topic. I am never quite sure of someone's motives if they suddenly start to support their adopted country over their country of birth. It's just odd but each one to their own. I know some Saffers who have done this and their argument that it is for their kid's sake. I've left it up to my kid and she supports both and when you ask her which she prefers she says neither. <snip>

If one of my boys gets selected for <insert another nation> team in <insert sport>, then all bets are off, I'm going to the game as a supporter of <insert another nation>. I don't care how ridiculous the accent may sound.

Like all rules there will be exceptions, and I would be severely conflicted if the little <expletive deleted> Jarse got chosen for the <expletive deleted> Soap Dodgers. I just hope that that little scenario doesn't eventuate. If it did, I reckon I'd be as proud as punch, just not prepared to be as overt about it as I might otherwise be.

 

[Rob42]

.

I'm surprised that @Bullrush's 2 Australian born kids are not entitled to benefits of Australian Citizenship, even though the parents may not have citizenship. I thought any child born in Australia was automatically an Australian Citizen, unless there was special circumstances like Child of a Foreign Diplomat, or Defence Force or the like.

.

No automatic citizenship on birth here, HJ, I was discussing that recently with some American friends. I was a little surprised as my daughter has dual citizenship after being born in the US. Apparently not automatic in the UK either.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Gracious. Good to learn something new every day.

If there is no automatic right to citizenship on birth, why does the Government seem to appear to go to such extraordinary lengths to prevent pregnant asylum seekers from giving birth on Australian Soil, even if that Australian soil is not in the so called Migration Zone.

 

[Braveheart81]

The USA is generally quite happy to give out dual citizenships because they retain the right to tax citizens who wouldn't ordinarily be tax residents.

A friend of mine who is exceedingly successful and was a dual Australian/US citizen had to renounce his US citizenship a few years ago for this reason.

 

[Rob42]

The USA is generally quite happy to give out dual citizenships because they retain the right to tax citizens who wouldn't ordinarily be tax residents.

A friend of mine who is exceedingly successful and was a dual Australian/US citizen had to renounce his US citizenship a few years ago for this reason.

Aahh - and here was I thinking how gracious they were. The right to citizenship by birth is captured in their Constitution, though, I think.

 

[Dan54]

Actually, how do I admit I not really in the want to beat the Poms brigade?? I have to confess to liking Poms, really like Pomland, and their sense of humour generally.
I know I know I could end up been sent to pergatory, but perhaps my parents dropped me on my head as a baby or something
For some reason HECs fees or equivilant are available to Aussie kids in NZ, know my grandson friends with a couple of Aussies at Otago Uni who have gone there to study medicine.

 

[Blue]

@Blue - clearly Tone Abbott didn't "Stop the Boets".

Tony knows when to turn a blind eye like any good politician.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

@Dan54 - Talk like that could get you banned if I was a mod.

I reckon you could have a case against your parents for their dropsy skills when you were a real little tacker.

I'd sooner watch Pommie TV than most of the American dribble that is produced. My anti-Soap Dodger only manifests itself in sport, wine, and food. Apart from absolutely perfecting internationalised South Asian food, their only contribution to things gastronomic has been soggy fish and chips drowned in vinegar.

English wine. I've only ever seen it with an "h" in it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Actually, how do I admit I not really in the want to beat the Poms brigade?? I have to confess to liking Poms, really like Pomland, and their sense of humour generally.
I know I know I could end up been sent to pergatory, but perhaps my parents dropped me on my head as a baby or something
For some reason HECs fees or equivilant are available to Aussie kids in NZ, know my grandson friends with a couple of Aussies at Otago Uni who have gone there to study medicine.

I like English people too and I like England.

I just don't like The English.

 

[Blue]

You should also adopt our sentiment of anyone but the English as well.

We're kind of over the Pom thing really for a number of reasons. Fighting them in a couple of wars and becoming a republic probably the most obvious. Even your staunchest of most staunch Afrikaners don't really have much of an issue any more these days.

The history is very different.

Having said that I tend to support anyone but the Poms anyway. I'm frankly more anti Kiwi these days when it comes to rugby because I am sick to shit of them winning.

And I do support Aus when not playing SA but jaysus they are making it bloody hard.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Hard for some Saffers to dislike the Pommie cricket team.

 

[BPC]

And I do support Aus when not playing SA but jaysus they are making it bloody hard.

Personally, when the ABs are playing the Boks, I hope they batter each other into a pulp so the Wallabies can swoop in for the win the following week like a seagull on a hot chip. Frankly, its probably our best chance of beating either at this stage. Not that I'm bitter or anything.

 

[BPC]

I like English people too and I like England.

I just don't like The English.

With largely Irish heritage, with a touch of Scots thrown in for variety, I am genetically programmed to dislike the English.*


*Even if UKTV on Foxtel is usually a better bet than Fox8.

 

[mxyzptlk]

I agree but even in the theatre of war a lot of serving personnel had the same view as Rathbone. I wish I could remember the name of the fighter pilot & the documentary but there was an interesting point of view from a fallen spitfire pilot. He had sent a letter home the day before flying out to fight & he stated to his family in the letter that whilst England was a lovely country it was NOT worth dying for, the only thing that was worth dying for was his family & friends - he fought for them. To me, if that way of thinking is good enough for a brave spitfire pilot during wartime then it is good enough for a Rugby player like Rathbone playing the little old game of Rugby.

You'll hear similar sentiments from soldiers today. When they're out in the field, or even when they're being trained to head out, their focus is on their fellow troops, not nationalist abstractions. The other soldiers, teammates, friends, family -- they're real, tangible; your actions can have real consequences toward them, as their actions can have real consequences toward you. "Patriotism" isn't going to clear out a ruck for you or run a support line; a teammate is.

Patriotism would seem to encompass that, and to place patriotism over people seems to miss the forest for the trees.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Going back to the real old days.

I always chuckled at the BBC Series Porridge with the Afro-Scottish actor who played Jock McLaren (Tony Osoba according to wikipedia). The last thing you were expecting to hear when he spoke was a very broad Glaswegian Brogue. Things are not always as they seem.

 

[daz]

You'll hear similar sentiments from soldiers today. When they're out in the field, or even when they're being trained to head out, their focus is on their fellow troops, not nationalist abstractions. .

It's a simple case of evolution; back in WW1 and WW2, Aussie troops (on the whole) considered it their duty to fight for the Motherland, and by extension, Australia.

Korea, then Vietnam changed things a bit, especially when the threat was to neither England or Australia - we were transitioning into an American alliance model.

As for nowadays, war is very rarely aimed at defending a country. It is more a defence of ideals. In some cases, the ideal is that we are supporting and defending the weak (Somalia) or the oppressed (Iraq/Timor) or reducing global terrorism (Afganistan).

Having served in two of those little bunfights listed above, I can tell you that without exception, professional soldiers fight for their mates.

With conscription now a thing of the past and fulltime soldiers being the ones going O/S, we also see it as spending years training and finally getting the opportunity to play a game in the big show.


Anyway, just my 2c.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

You should also adopt our sentiment of anyone but the English as well.

Slightly off topic question.... who are you supporting next weekend when NZ play England?

I'm a strange one with England sporting. I'm happy to support their football team, to a lesser extent their rugby team. But I wish nothing but failure on their cricketers. Not sure why.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Slightly off topic question.. who are you supporting next weekend when NZ play England?

I'm a strange one with England sporting. I'm happy to support their football team, to a lesser extent their rugby team. But I wish nothing but failure on their cricketers. Not sure why.

As an AB supporter, you can perhaps afford to be magnanimous towards England in rugby (and to everyone else), but as the Bleck Keps consistently get beaten by England, the desire for revenge will come out in cricket. Soccer, I know next to nothing about, so can't offer a possible explanation there.

But, in any contest between England and NZ, I will barrack for NZ every time. This is not because of any disrespect towards the English. I am forever grateful that Aus was settled and developed as an English colony. It gave us Rugby, cricket and common law - all the best life has to offer. I have also been fortunate to visit England a couple of times in recent years and I love the place and all of its history. Don't really know why I take a set against them on the sporting field.