Concussions and Protecting Our Players
- Thread starter USARugger
- Start date
KevinO
John Hipwell (52)
It was, I am not a league fan. but some of the comments I saw about Slater deserving it were shocking. Don't care what his done no one deserves to cop a shot like that.
Absolutely. I agree that Slater is a bit of a grub, but making the leap that he therefore deserves to be blindsided with a swinging arm to the head is just ridiculous.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
The amazing Rugby Judicial system. This week supplies the best cases as examples of how ridiculous the system is.
Case 1) SBW - a pre-meditated shoulder charge into the head of a player (forget the "oh he isn't a dirty player, it isn't who he is" bullshit handwringing, he has previous form) gets two parts of SFA in terms of ban which is whittled away by the NZRU playing silly buggers applying training runs as "matches".
Case 2) Kwagga Smith - gets four weeks for an unintentional silly and dangerous contact of the player in the air.
Smith has no real defence, his action was reckless and was never really in a position to play the ball and resulted in another player being very dangerously compromised, even if the action was unintentional 4 weeks is about right.
SBW however should have got far far longer, just on this action alone, without any reference to his antecedence. Combine it with the whittling away of his sentence makes the whole "protecting our players" and taking concussion seriously arguments from the officials just so much lip service.
Case 1) SBW - a pre-meditated shoulder charge into the head of a player (forget the "oh he isn't a dirty player, it isn't who he is" bullshit handwringing, he has previous form) gets two parts of SFA in terms of ban which is whittled away by the NZRU playing silly buggers applying training runs as "matches".
Case 2) Kwagga Smith - gets four weeks for an unintentional silly and dangerous contact of the player in the air.
Smith has no real defence, his action was reckless and was never really in a position to play the ball and resulted in another player being very dangerously compromised, even if the action was unintentional 4 weeks is about right.
SBW however should have got far far longer, just on this action alone, without any reference to his antecedence. Combine it with the whittling away of his sentence makes the whole "protecting our players" and taking concussion seriously arguments from the officials just so much lip service.
SBW also got 4 weeks. It just happens that that due to the break between Super Rugby and the test matches that two of those matches will pretty dubious.
Kwagga Smith didn't make the Springboks squad so the matches he misses will all be below test and Super Rugby level.
SBW missed a Lions test and a Super Rugby game at least.
Kwagga Smith didn't make the Springboks squad so the matches he misses will all be below test and Super Rugby level.
SBW missed a Lions test and a Super Rugby game at least.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
It is not relevant. 4 weeks for a premeditated attack to the head v a reckless contact to a player in the air.
Williams was also deemed as reckless.
I think any judiciary would have had a hard time determining it was premeditated.
Your starting point was that Kwagga Smith got four weeks suspension and SBW got "two parts of SFA". That is what I was correcting.
They were given the same suspension.
I agree that if World Rugby wants to take a concerted approach to tackling concussion they should take a tougher line with high tackles at the judiciary (as they have done on the field).
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Any judiciary that is blind and accepts the usual bullshit. He cocks his arm clenched the fist and led with the shoulder, there is a massive difference between that, (ie. taking active intentional steps to actually create the result and effect) and a reckless act like what Smith did.
The Rugby judiciary system mirrors the criminal and civil jurisdiction where the prevarications and obfuscations of Lawyers and mouth pieces play a more important part in the proceedings than the actual facts of the matter, as shown by the SBW case.
The tackle reflected in this set of photos was from the Shute Shield qualifying final. Video is and was available as it was telecast by 7TWO. This matter was not subject to a judiciary hearing and was deemed play on by referee Angus Gardner who can be seen in the first frame with a clear view of the contact and aftermath. The tackled player sustained a severe concussion. That the NSWRU and SRU deemed that no action should be initiated as a result of this tackle beggars belief. The tackler plays this week and the referee has been appointed to control another semi final in the same grade. So much for taking head injuries and player safety seriously. This signals the absolute opposite.
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
(Somewhat) got this idea from bigfooty - have the suspension designated as 'first-class' matches - i.e. Test, Super Rugby, Aviva Prem, Top 14, Pro 12 and Sevens. Probably needs to be shaped further but its a staring point.
btw SBW should have gotten 10+ weeks. Considering Simmons got 8 weeks in 2012 for a spear tackle in v France (originally 14 but got 6 lopped off for good record).
Not to mention Digby getting 5 weeks for this
SBW should have had the book and everything else thrown at him
Weren't the majority of the weeks Simmons missed during the offseason? I think he missed two tests.
Also, I think that ban was reduced to five weeks on appeal.
A textbook head knock to SBW in Bledisloe 1 this weekend. NO HIA? It has been reported he is suffering no concussion effects.
https://streamable.com/zuyw4
https://streamable.com/zuyw4
To further its commitment to player welfare best practice SANZAAR can confirm that it has urgently reinforced World Rugby’s Head Injury Assessment (HIA) protocols to all teams, medical staff and match officials involved in The Rugby Championship.
Following an incident in The Rugby Championship match between Australia and New Zealand in Sydney on 19 August, SANZAAR initiated a HIA review after the Australian Rugby Union’s (ARU) Chief Medical Officer (CMO) brought the matter to SANZAAR’s attention as part of the usual post-match review. The footage showed a collision involving New Zealand player Sonny Bill Williams in the early stages of the match.
SANZAAR subsequently requested a full report of the incident from the Host Union (ARU) CMO and the All Black Team Management as to why Williams was not taken from the field for an assessment in line with World Rugby HIA protocols.
SANZAAR has now completed its review of the incident and in line with World Rugby Player Welfare Standards has established there has not been a deliberate failure or an 'Untoward Incident' pursuant to the terms of participation and as such finds no actions that constitute misconduct.
The review, involving all relevant match day and team medical staff, determined:
SANZAAR has communicated with the National Unions of Argentina, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa to remind all match day staff, team management and match officials that continual education and best practices are a collective responsibility to ensure player welfare standards are upheld at all times in and out of competition.
SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos stated, “This is an unfortunate set of circumstances given the acute focus and attention we are all applying to player safety and in particular the HIA protocols. NZ Rugby has been proactive in its management of Sonny Bill Williams and we have full confidence in its processes to manage his return to play - as NZR has illustrated with other players such as Dane Coles and Ben Smith this year already.”
“As a consequence, and even though there was no deliberate failure apparent, SANZAAR has taken the opportunity to strongly reinforce World Rugby HIA protocols including video analysis during the game, to all teams, match day medical staff and match officials participating in The Rugby Championship.”
“Additionally, New Zealand Rugby has confirmed that Sonny Bill Williams is being managed in line with World Rugby HIA protocols, including HIA 3 and computer neuro-cognitive assessment, and will progress to a graduated return to play if asymptomatic,” added Marinos.
Following an incident in The Rugby Championship match between Australia and New Zealand in Sydney on 19 August, SANZAAR initiated a HIA review after the Australian Rugby Union’s (ARU) Chief Medical Officer (CMO) brought the matter to SANZAAR’s attention as part of the usual post-match review. The footage showed a collision involving New Zealand player Sonny Bill Williams in the early stages of the match.
SANZAAR subsequently requested a full report of the incident from the Host Union (ARU) CMO and the All Black Team Management as to why Williams was not taken from the field for an assessment in line with World Rugby HIA protocols.
SANZAAR has now completed its review of the incident and in line with World Rugby Player Welfare Standards has established there has not been a deliberate failure or an 'Untoward Incident' pursuant to the terms of participation and as such finds no actions that constitute misconduct.
The review, involving all relevant match day and team medical staff, determined:
- The incident was not identified during the game via the appointed HIA specialist, the match day doctor, the team doctors or the match officials
- The available post-game video confirms ataxia, which would trigger immediate and permanent removal under World Rugby protocols
- While no process is entirely failsafe, the review panel determined that the missed HIA incident should have been identified during the match
SANZAAR has communicated with the National Unions of Argentina, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa to remind all match day staff, team management and match officials that continual education and best practices are a collective responsibility to ensure player welfare standards are upheld at all times in and out of competition.
SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos stated, “This is an unfortunate set of circumstances given the acute focus and attention we are all applying to player safety and in particular the HIA protocols. NZ Rugby has been proactive in its management of Sonny Bill Williams and we have full confidence in its processes to manage his return to play - as NZR has illustrated with other players such as Dane Coles and Ben Smith this year already.”
“As a consequence, and even though there was no deliberate failure apparent, SANZAAR has taken the opportunity to strongly reinforce World Rugby HIA protocols including video analysis during the game, to all teams, match day medical staff and match officials participating in The Rugby Championship.”
“Additionally, New Zealand Rugby has confirmed that Sonny Bill Williams is being managed in line with World Rugby HIA protocols, including HIA 3 and computer neuro-cognitive assessment, and will progress to a graduated return to play if asymptomatic,” added Marinos.
Strewthcobber
Mark Ella (57)
Around 2:00 on the match clock if you want to have a look.
He certainly looked a bit wobbly but got back in the line with the Wallabies hot on attack and then made two more tackles in quick succession.
A similar one to KH earlier this year. If the ref doesn't see it, there's a real gap in the process in terms of player safety and prevention of a repeat knock almost straight after
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He certainly looked a bit wobbly but got back in the line with the Wallabies hot on attack and then made two more tackles in quick succession.
A similar one to KH earlier this year. If the ref doesn't see it, there's a real gap in the process in terms of player safety and prevention of a repeat knock almost straight after
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Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
What's the joke? I bloody missed it[/quote
Just another serve in the ongoing game of SANZAAR or World Rugby snuggling up to the Kiwi's. Wayne Barnes spent that much time sucking up to Read on Sat night I was anticipating a dinner date being organised on the field. They don't need the leg up they get every week but as usual they take it and ask
for more in that winning grin, humble Kiwi battler style. The worm will turn one day but jeez it's hard going waiting for the tide to turn.
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Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
Lost, are you really that stupid? How is the fact that someone has missed a HIA mean that Barnes/WR (World Rugby) as well as the Aussie Dr who is there just to help indentify these things, etc are snuggling up to NZ.
Whoops sorry looks like I answered my own question there doesn't it.
Whoops sorry looks like I answered my own question there doesn't it.
No , my bad you'd be right Bro. Sure the last 10 years of endless decisions that somehow have a common theme were missed by me. If you really think the. NZ team missed one of their players stumbling around like a drunk ,twice, then I'm sure that you are of the view that the food was spiked in SA and McCaw never entered from the side. They didn't act on Williams because they new they would not get called on it and as usual they are above review. You go on thinking that they are just hard working battlers Cuz. It's starting to unravel. The rest of us just have to be patient.