Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

[Inside Shoulder]

There is more than a little irony in the decision to levy the $200 being followed so closely by the abolition of the u16s.
We should be glad they didn't levy $300 or we would have lost the state champs as well.

 

[Quick Hands]

I understand that one of the stronger junior clubs around, the Manly Roos, now have 1 stand alone team after 12s. They have a lower grade 15s team and all their other teams have either had to amalgamate with Raiders and Harlequins of have folded altogether. I believe that the 3 clubs are jointly running teams in all these age groups. Not a healthy sign.

Some anecdotal feedback from some parents that I've spoken to is that many JGC boys are no longer playing village rugby.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

One of the misguided forever overly optimistic rose coloured view of life that I had (or hoped for against all better judgement) was that the vast majority of the JGC kids would roll into regular village club competitions for the winter.

I can understand that the "elite" in Metro Sydney would struggle to balance Club and 1stXV/15A/16A's duties at 12 of Sydneys Schools most of which are in the East or North, but is the situation being repeated in regional areas (off thread topic) and in the West and South where the AAGPS and CAS have less impact.

Have the Clipboards been watching games and talking to parents?

 

[Quick Hands]

I think the issue is two-fold HJ.

Firstly, there are only so many hours in the day, so the idea that boys can play, JGC, Village, District, Zone & school was never going to fly. I think boys in that 15-17 age group only have a limited amount of time to give to any activity - even if rugby is their major sport/pastime.

Secondly, and perhaps related to this, is that many now see JGC as their pathway - they're now "known" by the powers that be, many would play GPS, CAS or ISA school competitions as well. ISA have a rugby presence in country areas, as do the GPS through TAS, not to mention any local school competitions which might exist.

It was always going to end this way - particularly with the JGC being played at the start of the year rather than the end. If JGC was at the END of the village and district season, we may well see more boys playing village/district in order to be selected.

The law of unintended consequences strikes again.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And if played at the end you could use village as the selection gateway to JGC thereby supporting the grass roots.

 

[Quick Hands]

Exactly.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

And if played at the end you could use village as the selection gateway to JGC thereby supporting the grass roots.

Is this chicken and eggs though?

JGC is played at the end of SJRU comp.

This years SJRU U14's are next years U15 JGC participants, same with the 2014 SJRU U16's feeding in to 2016/2017 U17 JGC.

This years SJRU (and Country JRU Club comps) is the entry point for the 2014/2015 JGC and kids should be flooding Grass Roots Village CLubs to register for Rugby 2014, because that will help them maintain their skills for a tilt at next summers JGC.

No trials with 200 kids trying out in 30 degree temps at short notice well after the end of the season.

Force the Selectors and Scouts to attend grass roots games to watch all the kids in the game environment. Get out to Dwyer Oval, Kierle oval, Grantham Park, Dural's oval, that one up Carlo way just off Pennant Hills Road by the Bowlo, Wills Oval in Dulwich Hill, the oval in Plumpton just off where the M7 and Richmond Road meet, Menai's Home ground, Woollahra 3. Plenty of others as well. Don't remember the names of all the ovals, but I know how to get there.

Get them to the State champs, although they probably already do in a form or another. SJRU already select a U17 and U15 rep team from State champs and regionals. (Assuming that the state champs will still exist).

Sort the bloody pathway goat track out. Link the bits up. Make efficient use of your selectorial and coaching development resources and opportunities. We only have one group of kids to nurture along the one pathway.

One plan, one goal. Many working towards it.

 

[Quick Hands]

By what definition is a competition played in February/March (JGC) at the end of a competition which starts in April and ends in August (SJRU)?

Aren't February and March the two months immediately before April?

Aren't there 5 month between August and February?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Isn't the Selection of and preparation for the JGC tournament conducted after the end of the SJRU competition?

The skills learned in the weekly sessions (I understand that some centres have trained more frequently than that) are the main benefit of the JGC programme, the Tournament is just the icing on the cake that wasn't provided under the "old" JGS scheme. On that basis I see the JCG programme as following the SJRU competition.

Kids fresh from the excitement of the JGC Tournament (in Feb/ Mar) should theoretically be motivated to sign up with Clubland to keep the positive rugby experience going over the winter period.

That is the part where clubland should be at the games with their rego forms, marketing the benefits of SJRU (and BJRU. NSW CJRU etc comps) and signing names.

The challenge is to this years SJRU (and Schools) U15's will not be seen by the JGC development team until the end of 2015 (2 full rugby seasons away) when the spotlight comes on them for selection into the 2015/2016 U17 JGC programme (Feb/Mar 2016 competition). For them, unless they are exceptionally talented and as 14, turning 15, years old in 2014, they can qualify for the 2014 U17 JCG programme - right at the upper limit and possibly beyond the ARU 2 year playing window.

The National U16 championship could cover that gap....Oh wait.........

 

[Quick Hands]

Well you're right to the extent that Feb/Mar 2014 is chronologically AFTER August 2013 and the cyclical nature of the year means that it can be explained that way. I also get the training component.

But, in rugby terms, it's in a different calendar year and most importantly a different rugby year/season.

If SJRU went April to August and JGC was September/October, that would put them in the same calendar year, but more importantly the same rugby year. i.e. the SJRU 15s of April-August are the same JGC 15s of September/October.

I'm not sure what the answer is, it's just another chapter in the book of dysfunction in rugby junior development.

Ideally, as we both know, if 15s and 17s were part of the colts set up, then they would receive that coaching and development at club level and then an elite JGC could be run at the end. Win/win I believe is the technical term.

But that, as they say, is another story

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I am trying to find positives, and opportunities for Village club footy to gain from the rather large investment made by the Governing body in the JGC.

So far I am not hearing too much good news with regard to the grass roots benefiting long term from JGC. I really really want to be wrong about my gut feeling but I an not getting good chicken entail readings.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Well you're right to the extent that Feb/Mar 2014 is chronologically AFTER August 2013 and the cyclical nature of the year means that it can be explained that way. I also get the training component.

But, in rugby terms, it's in a different calendar year and most importantly a different rugby year/season.

If SJRU went April to August and JGC was September/October, that would put them in the same calendar year, but more importantly the same rugby year. i.e. the SJRU 15s of April-August are the same JGC 15s of September/October.

I'm not sure what the answer is, it's just another chapter in the book of dysfunction in rugby junior development.

Ideally, as we both know, if 15s and 17s were part of the colts set up, then they would receive that coaching and development at club level and then an elite JGC could be run at the end. Win/win I believe is the technical term.

But that, as they say, is another story

This picks up my "let the clubs run JGC" - gives them contact, connection, access and a stake in the kids development.
Rule should be if you want to playJGC you must play village.
And if rugby is worried this will drive league boys away one either takes the view that the JGC is meant for rugby or we do exit polling to gauge how many kids might be lured to village if it was the gateway to JGC.
Maybe the ARU already know these things: but they've never polled me except about the beer at Allianz - and they don't seem to be listening to my answers on that topic!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I can't recall the SJRU or NSW JRU ever conducting any polling either.

Many correspondents on here have suggested that such an activity takes place. Perhaps it is time for the masses to have their say?

Mr Garland's fine report seems to have canvassed a large audience for contributory comment, and that seems to have been the last formal user feedback activity undertaken. That report was a long time ago, and the author was limited in scope by his terms of reference, and many of his recommendations seem to have been put in the too hard basket.

 

[Quick Hands]

HJ, I honestly believe that the ARU brought in the JGC for the right reasons, that is provide coaching and resources in junior development. I think that the problem has been in some of its implementation and the lack of understanding that you can't provide the same solution to all parts of the country. The rugby playing world in Australia is quite small, but the issues facing Sydney Juniors is different from that facing Perth or Melbourne juniors for example. The apparent lack of insight into the problems faced by SJRU and the impact of JGC in it is no doubt unintended.

 

[hollowman]

My understanding is that the JGC u15 and u17 teams are 30 person squads made up of equal numbers of 13,14, 15 & 16 years olds. So unless I am mistaken the loss of opportunity for a particular age group doesn't exist.

 

[Quick Hands]

I don't follow your point. I not sure if anyone on this thread has raised a "loss of opportunity for a particular age group"

 

[hollowman]

Apologies I was replying to HJ's post 489. I am still working on my posting skills

Cheers

 

[Quick Hands]

No worries.

 

[Gary Owen III]

My understanding is that the JGC u15 and u17 teams are 30 person squads made up of equal numbers of 13,14, 15 & 16 years olds. So unless I am mistaken the loss of opportunity for a particular age group doesn't exist.

Scanning the JGC lists and as far as I can tell there are about 23-25 u16's playing in all the Sydney metro teams combined.

So 25 out of possible 120 is hardly an equal opportunity.

 

[Quick Hands]

But wouldn't we expect the majority of the 17s to be 17 year olds and a minority of 16 year olds? Same in 15s in comparison to 14s I'd imagine. Hard to believe that there would be many 13 year olds who could play 2 years up against elite level 15 year olds.