Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

[Man on the hill]

Rugby is a game with a great history and an even greater number of traditions – because of this, change is slow and sometimes difficult.

U10s do not have a state championship anymore & haven’t for a number of years. They have a gala day and districts are encouraged to enter multiple teams to give more players the opportunity to participate. To emphasize the difference these games are no longer played on the June long weekend and are totally divorced of the concept of State Championships (expect maybe for a few really sad parents).

At the 11s for the last few years, they have played all their games at a single location and all teams play on the Monday in a host of additional games, with relays and other competitions organised. The only people that I have ever heard describe the additional Monday games (relays etc) as meaningless are the adults! The kids appear to be having fun!

NSWJRU are that confident about this format that they have (so I understand from the snouts) extended it to U12s & U13s for 2014. For the true tragic, please recall that In 2013 due to the relative strength of numbers in their ages, the 14’s & 15s played semi finals and later the GF on the Monday at Milner, along with GFs for the 16s & 17s.

To those that argue that it is impossible to select a district rep team in only 2 or 3 club competition games – please get with the times. The selectors have their watch list based on the prior season or have had kids in formal or informal development squads across the summer. The selection process is then for unearthing the bolter or the kid that grew up over summer or the new comer AND for confirming whereabouts in the mix the known kids are at.

 

[Quick Hands]

Well some grounds must be available for longer, because JGC trials started in January.

How does not overlapping penalise the participants? At the moment their village training session and matches will be disrupted when rep players are injured playing reps or go to rep training in preference to village club training.

Why does shorter equate to less important? I don't follow your logic.

They're dropping out now with a 14 week season - which hasn't changed for at least 40 years. How do you equate the current drop out rate with a proposal to reorganise the season?

You don't think that you average ordinary kid who is playing rugby for fun would be satisfied with a 10 week plus 2 weeks of semis, plus a 4 week 7s tournament?

(I understand that most SJRU divisions have 8 teams and top 4 play off for trophy and the bottom 4 play off for a plate or bowl)

We would actually be providing these kids with more rugby if you put on a 7s tournament (an Olympic sport) for them while district reps were on. They might enjoy 7s against kids of similar ability.

EDIT:
No one said it was impossible to select a rep team in 3 weeks, that's not the point. To me it just makes more sense to have it at the end of the village season. You still play all the games at the one location, just on 3 consecutive Saturdays instead of 3 consecutive days. You can still have relays and goal kicking competitions etc. I know of some years where a team gets a couple of injuries on the 1st day and their tournament is basically over, with a week between games many of those boys would have recovered and be able to play.

I'm glad to hear that NSWJRU are so confident about their format and the way they are running junior rugby in this state. Everything must be alright then.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Over the years, I've seen a few 7's gala days for Juniors.

They are relitively easy to organise, and there is usually an absolute swirl of constant activity and enjoyment from the participants.

There should be more of these.

 

[Quick Hands]

Particularly for the boys at the participation level, I'd have thought 7s would be the perfect thing to put on for them, while the elite level boys are playing district reps.

(At the conclusion of course of their 15 a side village season)

I think the buzz term is win/win

 

[Druid]

It would take some convincing. As part of an SJRU survey we surveyed our Under 11s to ask if they would like to participate in a 4-6 week 7s competition on a Saturday (they previously played Saturday so all of them were available). Of the 20 responses only 2 responded positive.

I think we will end up agreeing to disagree however, I still don't see why we need to re-arrange the schedule of kids who participate in Rugby for the rep program, it should be the other way around. I question as well the need for a rep program Under the age of 14. I Coach an Under 13s team, of which only 3 attend a Saturday Rugby playing High School, why should these 20 kids get less 15-a-side Rugby because of the reps program.

 

[Quick Hands]

It wouldn't bother me if there was no district rep programme until 15s.

I think you'll be fairly safe in assuming that neither SJRU nor NSWJRU will be changing the way that they operate.

I re-started in the 6s a few years back and have now hit 10s.

Previously I coached a team in which none of the boys attended a Saturday sports playing high school. Those boys finished 17s in 2000. From my experience, 13s is a great year, but year after that becomes exponentially more and more difficult to keep the team going. I remember the district rep season when my 5 or 6 best players were often out through injury sustained in rep matches or had to miss training because they just couldn't get to all the training sessions and keep up with school and other commitments.

In those days village rugby was on Saturday and district rep teams played trials on Sundays and the district rep season for 15s, 16, & 17s was played over 4 consecutive Sundays instead of the long weekend. The reason for this was to allow boys to recover from injury.

I also remember the problems playing on the 1st and last Saturdays of the holiday with boys away, trying to scratch a team together.

I don't doubt what you say about the SJRU survey on 7s, although I must say it surprised me. My experience with 7s tournaments is that the boys love them. I wonder if the surveys were filled out by the boys or the parents?

One of the reasons little changes in junior sport is that most people only go through it once as parents (spread over a longer period with siblings) and by the time they work out what needs fixing, it's too late to convince people and they're that close to the end anyway. And of course you get the longstanding officials whose boys have long finished still in there fighting to keep things the way they always were.

There's one thing that is undeniable though and that is that the number of boys playing village club rugby continue to decline year after year. Rugby's response is to keep doing the same thing.

EDIT: Good luck with your team. I hope you have an enjoyable time over the next 5 years or so, it's worth it if the team is still there at the end.

 

[Druid]

QH, will be around for a while, I have kids in U13, U12s & U8s. I coach the U13s and U8s.. Out west here in PDJRU, I am told there used to be 2 divisions in the old WMZ. In PDJRU for a most of the junior age groups there are only 1-2 teams in the district.

 

[Quick Hands]

Parramatta were very strong in juniors in 70s and 80s and possibly later. WMZ used to have plenty of teams drawn from Parra and Eastwood.

Manly Vikings used to play an annual pre-season trial for all ages against Seven Hills every year, Merrylands used to run a 7s tournament on a Sunday once a year which went from about 8 in the morning till 5 in the afternoon and Manly used to play Parra in a district rep trial match every year so there was a very close link between the 2 areas.

In that Merrylands day we used to play clubs like Seven Hills, Dundas, Northmead, Merrylands, Wentworthville, Westmead - do they still exist? I recall Northmead being particularly strong - played in red and white if I remember correctly.

 

[Druid]

Seven Hills is now called Blacktown and is still around, and might have 3 junior teams this year. Dundas is still going and might get 1-2 Junior teams. Merrylands didn't have any teams at all last year but might get up an U6s. Northmead, Wentworthville and Westmead no longer exist.

 

[Quick Hands]

Shame that some of those clubs only have a few teams and others don't exist at all. People may not believe it now, but Parramatta Rugby was once strong all the way from 6s to first grade (both numerically and in terms of quality). It's hard to believe how far rugby has fallen away in that part of Sydney.

And I don't blame the band of hard workers at ground level. It should have been recognised by the administrators long ago how important it was to the game to be strong in the Parramatta area.

Manly actually went through a similar decline, but that was mainly because of an aging population. The recent boom in junior numbers in MJRU area is because of young families buying as the oldies have sold their homes and a lot of hard work from the unsung volunteers, not to mention a district club which has really put a much resources as it can into juniors.

I'd be interested to know what the grass roots workers in the Parramatta JRU area think about how to reinvigorate participation in that area.

I assume that there are state primary schools at Northmead, Merrylands, Wentworthville, Westmead etc. With at least some rugby tradition in those areas, what can the NSWRU/ARU do to help?

 

[S'UP]

Or you could do as most other sports do and play during the school holidays, that would allow for a full club season and then the rep season straight after, the JGC teams could be pick at the same time as the rep teams (all boys get seen at trials), the rep boys go off and play reps, the remainder of the JGC teams go and train (boys in the JGC teams training are backup for injured rep players), once the rep season is over the rep boys come back to JGC training and then in Feb the JGC games begin and in April we are back to club / school football. The school season whould have to run on the same timetable.

Why do you want to play rugby in February? It's the hottest month in the hottest continent?

Have you watched any of the current JGC or Super rugby games that have already been played in February, so we are actually already doing it. The holidays I was talking about were the April and June/July school holidays, happily for you they are in winter.

 

[Quick Hands]

Super rugby games area played at night by professional, adult athletes, which is completely different from talking about what children should be or not be doing.

When you said "then in Feb the JGC games begin" I assumed you were talking about playing rugby in February.

Rugby is a winter sport for fairly obvious reasons - even in countries with a climate more temperate that Australia. I don't think JGC should be playing in February. I realised that you were talking about April and June/July holidays for other competitions.

 

[S'UP]

When you said "then in Feb the JGC games begin" I assumed you were talking about playing rugby in February.[/quote]
I don't agree with playing games in Feb myself either, but I do agree with the JGC so I need to compromise a bit. If they are smart they will rework the JGC so the games can be played at night I have expressed my disappintment to the ARU about the scheduling of the games this year in the JGC and suggested that they have a duty of care to the boys.

 

[Quick Hands]

We agree.

( I think JGC is worthwhile although I question the timing and ascpects of the implementation.)

 

[Quick Hands]

SJRU Team Nominations as at 10 March:​

Friday Comp: ​

U10s: 15​

U11s: 9​

U12s: 14​

U13s: 2​

​

Saturday Comp:​

U10s: 5​

U11s: 3​

U14s: 2​

U16s: 3..possibly 4.​

​

Sunday Comp:​

U10s: >63​

U11s: 63​

U12s: 50​

U13s: 42​

U14s: 38​

U15s: 35​

U16s: 18​

Opens: 12​

​

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Just received an email informing me that the ARU has cancelled the National u 16s tournament.

 

[Delphy]

Hopefully 2015 JGC can have more night games. WA played 4/5 night games which were obviously much easier on the boys and made for a fantastic atmosphere, with large crowds attending.

Playing day games in Feb/March is a bit tough.

 

[Delphy]

Just received an email informing me that the ARU has cancelled the National u 16s tournament.

Wow, that is a real shame. Did the email justify the decision.

 

[Jaghond]

Hopefully this is the right thread for this.........
There are some rumblings coming from quarters suggesting that the ARU might be about to pull funding for the National Under 16 Carnival...

If this occurs, what impact might this have on Clubs retaining their 16's age group ??

Will this perhaps entice the schools & NSWJRU to try & talk to one another to organize an alternative ??

Some interesting times ahead, one feels....if these rumbles prove correct.

The Hound


Whoops ....beaten to the post button by Delphi....looks like the rumble were true

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Wow, that is a real shame. Did the email justify the decision.

My source came through schools rugby union.
The tone of the announcement suggested it was a complete surprise and no reasons were given but were being sought.
There seem to be some moves afoot already to overcome this ceding of turf to the AFL and NRL.
If the ARU thinks the JGC is a patch on the u16s nationals they are more ignorant Han even I thought possible.