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Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

Discussion in 'Schoolboy Rugby' started by Quick Hands, Dec 6, 2013.

  1. Inside Shoulder Nathan Sharpe (72)

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    Bit hard to tell what is your comment but I don't think it's correct that soccer has been on a solid footing for decades. My understanding is that recently (within the last few years) it was bailed out by the chairman.
    I hear many many complaints about the way junior soccer is run - they are different to the complaints one hears about rugby but they are vicious and they usually involve a disconnect between the cost and what the junior clubs actually offer the kids. THe other complaint is the demands made of the good kids to commit solely to the game.
    Having said that I generally agree with your post, except no one trusts what Growden writes and there's no doubt his agenda does not include improving junior rugby. One could be forgiven for thinking he has adopted the role of assassin for some time. I can't remember the last time I read a story of his that was not negative.
    Quick Hands likes this.
  2. Fat Cat Sydney Middleton (9)

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    They don't just dish out money to all their sports without an educated gamble or firm knowledge. What the TV guys dish out to the various sports is generally directly related to what they and their advertisers who invest with them can get back. Its a business.

    Soccer has a massive playing base in Australia, and a potential TV wise to have a much larger viewer base if you look at the rest of the world.

    Rugby has a smaller viewing audience and the potential to grow is possibly not as great in this country compared to other countries due to the mismanagement of a game which has changed from amateur to professional over the years. Other countries have managed the change to a professional era better than us. Soccer in this country the same.

    Looking at the big picture if you want to survive against all the other codes and reap the broadcasting rewards, we need to change peoples perception of rugby.

    The general public says we kick too much. In fact average per game from S15 to NRL is we kick 3-4 more times per game, bugger all.

    The game is too complicated, rubbish !

    Too many scrums compared to NRL, I don't have any stats compared to NRL.

    Here's the big one. Its a game for the upper class, the toffs, the leather patch brigade, You've got no hope unless you go to a particular school. We need to fix this if we are going to move forward as a sport and increase our viewing and participation numbers, and it starts here the SJRU. That's my point.

    It won't work pouring money in at the top all the time, it hasn't yet. Not even after Rod Macqueen brought a world cup home for us. We need to fix the base. We need to change peoples perceptions. There is no quick fix.
  3. papabear Watty Friend (18)

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    Rugby unions support comes from the upper class (the toffs as you call them) you start marketing it as an every mans game and not a "classier" sport and you will lose the base and what you get in return will not make up for what you lost.

    On a side note I got invited to an AFL business function the other day. Been invited to lots of league stuff because I am a member on their marketing lists and people know I like my league.

    But I thought that was odd that I got invited to an AFL thing prior to being invited to a RU one.

    If anything in my opinion, RU needs to shore up its support in the corporate world.
  4. HighPlainsDrifter Jimmy Flynn (14)

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    The captains of industry stopped fawning over rugby when the ARU remained somewhat aloof and disengaged with the rugby community who I consider are more diverse than you think . The "Members Only" attitude is a turn off to many in this country (that includes many well heeled and connected souls ) and is a bi-product of a bygone amateur age . The impact of having Wallabies , coaches , rep players fronting up to state schools is investing in the future of the code . Wider engagement is necessary and advisable . If the game was nurtured and developed on a wider scale at grass roots your potential supporter base could easily double over time , that will get the sponsors back . After the first 15 visits to a corporate box it quite frankly gets a bit boring . I generally have more fun rubbing shoulders with the crowd and most corporates who I know are time poor and would rather spend time with their families and catch the game on Fox . If you think rugby is "High Brow" try going to a Shute Shield or NRC game ..great atmosphere , great people from all walks of life and cultures . Many Australians are open to Rugby .and also follow League,AFL,Soccer,Basketball,Netball,Motor Racing .it is not a club anymore .the sport does not have the carrying capacity to appeal to a narrow demographic , its not polo .
  5. Runner Nev Cottrell (35)

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    I feel the laws are too complex. Look at the laws and how many could impact on sections of the game like scums. I have coached and still don't understand some of the rulings ref's make. Maybe I'm just dumb but when a TV guy like Kearns doesn't know were are we?

    The game doesn't have a big base and has been shrinking as some have pointed out earlier in gov't school not playing. So the Rugby schools are where the game is at the moment. The only real expansion in school Rugby has been in the ISA with the rise of Auggies. Who is viewed with some negativity by some. Hence the view it's toff.s

    Interesting when you see some coments here about Mungo people that it only reinforces that view.

    Soccer also attracts girls and mums in large numbers who play and if mum plays perhaps the kids will play too. The rise of that aspect maybe missed.

    Without a change in perceptuion and making the game broader it will have a long slow death.
  6. Crashy Alex Ross (28)

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    Was interesting to see on the back page of the Manly daily yesterday to see a full page spread of a young lass kitted out in Aus 7s kit holding a Gilbert. She had decided to quit Basketball for Rugby and was doing well. I thought it a fantastic advertisement for the game and is a telling sign as to where the real growth of the game could be. After all Australia is 50% female..
  7. Quick Hands David Wilson (68)

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    Maybe you went to the wrong school?:)
  8. Shane Smeltz Fred Wood (13)

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    Actually to the contrary elite soccer for the last two years has been holding it's own and then some.
    Football NSW two years introduced two major changes to youth soccer: a skills acquistion program (SAP) which is for 9-11 yrs. Then from 12 yrs there is premier league.

    There are round 30 clubs in Sydney alone (not including the rest of NSW) that offer SAP. The number per team per club (30 clubs) is 16x U9s, 24x U10s and 24x U11s. Each child pays $1500 for the season - you do the maths.
    Then from U12 there is premier league. 24 clubs. Each boy pays $2000-$2500 (max, capped by FNSW) from U12-U18. From U20 the players do not pay - the clubs pay the players. Yes, youth is financing the seniors. But it's not real money, it's pocket money, but better receiving pocket money than paying out your money to play.
    The SAP and PL teams are coached by coaches that must have an FFA licence and they do get paid to coach - a SAP coach would earn around $4000 for the season which is training 3x week and the competition game on the weekend. $4000 is also pocket money, the coaches do it as a hobby mostly.

    Regarding the SAP and the PL the FNSW clubs and Associations have been rubbing their hands with glee .
    And the parents get to boast their 9-year-old is playing 'rep soccer'.
    Win, win.

    Regarding club or 'park' soccer the rego is around $250 for youth and with all the cash coming from the SAP etc. the Associations are not doing it too hard either.
    loiterer and kiap like this.
  9. Inside Shoulder Nathan Sharpe (72)

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    My bail out comment was for the big boys.
    The $1500 i had not heard of.
    Every parent I know has a kid playing rep soccer - so you're spot on with that one.
    Just as every kid who play AFL is (seemingly) in the Swans Academy.
    Quick Hands likes this.
  10. Brainstrust Watty Friend (18)

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    Soccer has been funded up the pipe for a very long time. Rep teams have always been incredibly expensive by comparison to district rep rugby teams, different timing in the program etc granted. I would guess this is where rugby is heading with club team fee's and a JGC $$( SAP/ PL) . If the ARU can get the sponsorship funding sorted at the top, it may bring some financial stability to the code, along with plenty of discontent from the club community.
  11. Fat Cat Sydney Middleton (9)

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    Soccer is a totally different animal to rugby. Their playing base is huge for men and women. With Australia becoming more multicultural, the game has enormous potential. We can't compare our game or our problems to theirs.

    We need to look at where we sit with the other contact team sports when chasing the sponsorship and broadcasting rights dollar.

    At the moment when there is no money, we need to develop the game in low cost structural ways starting at the base. We certainly don't need to rape the base like ARU is doing and we certainly cant rely on them.

    If the ARU does get the sponsorship funding sorted at the top how much of that do you think will filter through to grass roots ? Sorry if I am a bit cynical but it's a bit like ground hog day !
    Quick Hands likes this.
  12. Brainstrust Watty Friend (18)

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    My comments are more around what it seems to be the model they are introducing. No body in any situation wants to incur additional charges, and I'm not comparing the games, I'm highlighting what I think the ARU are trying to do. I agree little if any funding will come down to grass roots from up top. I mentioned on a previous post that if the ARU is adopting such a model of up channel funding then I would be happy with that if there was some transparency to it and a time line of how it will deliver the game back to financial health. Its like any funding, if you can see where your money is actually going and what the future funding time line looks like, then you are far more inclined to tip in. If it's just going into a massive vacuum with no clarity, then you're not so keen, and rightly so.
  13. Runner Nev Cottrell (35)

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  14. S'UP Bill Watson (15)

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    To arrest the slide in mini numbers at our village club, the committee has formed associations with a number for primary schools in the area, employed 3 or 4 boys who are doing sports related degrees and started a try rugby program that they take out to the schools and run as part of the schools sporting program. I wish them all the success it is a fantastic initiative. they did this because they go not help from the development officers from NSW.
    Dave Beat, mous, Quick Hands and 2 others like this.
  15. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    The NSW JRU constitution requires the AGM to be held before November 30 each year.

    The most recent version of the SJRU Constitution does not set a date for their AGM, leaving it up to the discretion of the Board, however as the duly elected President of SJRU is an Executive Vice President of the NSW JRU, it is a safe assumption that the SJRU AGM must also have been held prior to Nov 30 this year.

    Anyone know who the current incumbents for the NSW JRU and SJRU various Committee/Board positions are?

    As of today, neither the 2013 or 2014 annual report is available for reading on the Sydney Junior RU web site. I note that the SJRU constitution requires the Secretary to send all members of SJRU (Clubs, Zones and Districts) the SJRU financial statements, Board report and Auditors report.

    I might have to approach the local Village Club to see if they have received their copy of the records from SJRU.
  16. Quick Hands David Wilson (68)

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    I'm fairly certain that SJRU have had their AGM. I recall receiving a summary of the changes to the competition rules for 2015 etc. Can't remember if I kept it though.

    EDIT: There was a meeting held on or around the 28 October, which approved a new SJRU contstitution in preparation for the AGM. Can't find whether or not it has been held. I would assume so as logistics for 2015 would need to be well underway by now.
  17. Fat Cat Sydney Middleton (9)

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    Dear Clubs,

    Please find below a note from Tony Fisher, President of SJRU together with the relevant forms for the Annual General Meeting of Sydney Junior Rugby Union to be held on Wednesday, 17th December at North Ryde RSL at 7pm.

    It is imperative that all Clubs are represented at this meeting which will be followed by an All Clubs Meeting.

    Please note that Nominations are to be returned duly signed by 6pm Wednesday 10th December, 2014 to KBrady@nswrugby.com.au



    Hi All,

    The Annual General Meeting of Sydney Junior Rugby Union will be held on Wednesday 17th December 2014 at North Ryde RSL commencing at 7:00 pm. The Agenda for the Annual General Meeting is attached.

    The following Directors will be elected at the Annual General Meeting:-

    · Chairman *

    · Finance Director *

    · Director - Friday Night and Saturday Competitions

    · Director - Sunday Competitions (Under 10 to Under 12) *

    · Director - Sunday Competitions (Under 13 to Opens)

    · Director - Representative *

    · Director - Development *

    · Director - Marketing and Sponsorship

    · Director - Northern Clubs Representative

    · Director - Southern Clubs Representative

    · Director - Western Clubs Representative

    · Director - Minis

    * means the current Director has advised that they are seeking re-election.

    The following positions on the 2015 SJRU Committee are newly created positions:-

    · Director - Northern Clubs Representative

    · Director - Southern Clubs Representative

    · Director - Western Clubs Representative

    · Director - Minis

    We strongly urge that a Southern Clubs representative nominate as the Director - Friday Night and Saturday Competitions.

    Nominations for Director must be:-

    · in writing;

    · on the attached form;

    · signed by the Delegate of either a District or a Club;

    · certified by the nominee (who must be an Individual Member) expressing his willingness to accept the position for which he is nominated; and

    · delivered to the Association not less than seven (7) days before the date fixed for the Annual General Meeting.

    Under the new Constitution a Director is elected for two (2) years. As this is the first election of Directors since the new Constitution was adopted the new SJRU Committee will decide which half of the Directors will have to stand down at the 2015 Annual General Meeting so as to be able to implement the new rotation policy.

    At the conclusion of the Annual General Meeting we will hold an All Clubs Meeting where the Agenda will include:-

    · Demonstration of Rugby Link the new competition administration and management system being implemented by the Australian Rugby Union (ARU)

    · Discussion regarding the new National Participation Fee (NPF)

    A number of members of the SJRU Committee met with representatives from the ARU and NSW Rugby last Thursday (27 November 2014) to discuss the new National Participation Fee (NPF). All states will be implementing the new National Participation Fee (NPF) and so we have to understand the implications and work together to find a workable solution. Within four hours of the NPF being announced on Tuesday 18 November 2014 the SJRU raised numerous questions and also provided an analysis of the effect of the NPF on the SJRU Clubs. It is greatly disappointing that the SJRU was never consulted during the discussions regarding the implementation of the NPF and it is further disappointing that NSW Rugby is yet to respond to the questions that we raised almost two weeks ago.

    From the SJRU’s perspective we estimate that the NPF will cost SJRU Clubs an additional $270,000 and together with the contribution the SJRU is making to the employment costs of the SJRU administrators the total contribution of the SJRU Clubs to the administration of Junior Rugby is almost $400,000. Therefore what we are seeking from NSW Rugby is what is the “value proposition” that we get from NSW Rugby to justify the cost of $400,000 as well as what is our share of the ARU grant moneys and the Waratah royalty income. We are hoping to have a satisfactory response from NSW Rugby in the foreseeable future so that we can update all the Clubs at the All Clubs meeting which is being held after the Annual General Meeting.

    If you have any queries regarding the above please do not hesitate to contact either Kerry Brady or a current member of the SJRU Committee.


    Tony Fisher


    Sydney Junior Rugby Union

    0438 822 286 (mobile)


    Kerry Brady| SJRU Competitions Manager| NSW Rugby Union

    IBM Centre, Sydney Football Stadium, Driver Avenue, Moore Park NSW 2021 T +61 2 9323 3401 | F +61 2 9368 7326 |M 0405 386 392 W www.juniors.rugby.com.au
  18. Inside Shoulder Nathan Sharpe (72)

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    I can't wait to hear the answer to this:
    An implied threat?
    Quick Hands likes this.
  19. Fat Cat Sydney Middleton (9)

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    5.1 Categories of Members

    The Members shall consist of:

    1. Districts, which subject to this Constitution, shall be represented by a Delegate, and who shall have the right to receive notice of General Meetings and to be present, debate and vote on behalf of the District at General Meetings;
    2. Clubs, which subject to this Constitution, shall be represented by a Delegate, and who shall have the right to receive notice of General Meetings and to be present, debate and vote on behalf of the Club at General Meetings;
    3. Life Members, who subject to this Constitution, shall have the right to receive notice of General Meetings and to be present and to debate at General Meetings but shall have no voting rights;
    4. Directors, who subject to this Constitution, shall have the right to receive notice of General Meetings and to be present and to debate at General Meetings but shall have no voting rights;
    5. Zones and Individual Members who shall have the right to be present at General Meetings but shall have no rights to debate or to vote at General Meetings;
    6. Affiliate Members and Individual Junior Members who shall have no rights; and

    such new or other categories of Members as may be established by the Board. Any new category of Member established by the Board cannot be grante
  20. Fat Cat Sydney Middleton (9)

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    26.1 Quorum
    No business shall be transacted at any General Meeting unless a quorum is present at the time when the meeting proceeds to business. A quorum for General Meetings shall be one third of the voting Members represented by their Delegates either in person or by Proxy.

    as I read it 16 voting members from village or district clubs to form a chorum. so a few like minded districts could push something through.

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