COVID-19 Stuff Here

[Braveheart81]

What do they do, exactly? If it's about monitoring and early warnings they seem to have failed pretty drastically.

Not saying i agree with the de-funding, but if they failed as badly as it seems primarily because China told them to stay silent there probably needed to be some kind of reprimand.

If they stayed silent because China told them to then that is a real problem.

In terms of the information they push out and the timing of declaring COVID-19 a pandemic, that is largely dictated by the countries that control it. When it became a pandemic is largely a technicality and is based on an agreed set of rules of when an epidemic becomes a pandemic.

 

[Derpus]

I don't know if this is true and if it is, it's shocking. But I would hazard that China may not have been forthcoming with sharing true information with the world community. Occam's razor.

And again, the US government has been aware of the risk of COVID through many channels, months before it was an internal crisis. They didn't act and are wildly looking for a scapegoat. It's not like the world waited with bated breath for WHO to finally declare a pandemic before acting. Morrison pre-empted it and cancelled entry from China days before WHO pulled their trigger.

Yeah i'm not looking to absolve any government for acting slowely because of anything the WHO did or didn't do. It was clearly a threat long before Trump, BoJo, ScoMo etc decided to take action.

But they aren't mutually exclusive. We can question WHO and criticise leaders while remaining consistent.

The fact that leaders acted before any direction from WHO again makes me wonder what their role is.

 

[Up the Guts]

I get that Trump is playing politics, both internally re. his narrative of control and success, and externally against the risen China, but pulling out of one of the main vehicles for addressing a global pandemic is appalling behaviour and absolutely in-line with how that bloke operates.

The issue is that US intelligence sources are saying the WHO did the exact opposite of this.

It's not like the world waited with bated breath for WHO to finally declare a pandemic before acting. Morrison pre-empted it and cancelled entry from China days before WHO pulled their trigger.

Wasn't Trump the first to pull the pin on China? Not that it would have had much impact at that stage as the disease had already spread.

I'm with Derpus on this, Trump has his own political motivations to call out the WHO but that doesn't mean they didn't fail drastically. I see now Borris is under pressure to also pull funding.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm with Derpus on this, Trump has his own political motivations to call out the WHO but it doesn't absolve them. I see now Borris is under pressure to also pull funding.

Trump did it at the start of February at the same time as Australia. A number of other countries had already done it prior to that.

A lot of what the WHO does is in the developing world (much like most UN organisations) and probably has the most experience dealing with outbreaks of ebola and other diseases localised in one spot. Clearly it has been found pretty lacking in dealing with a pandemic that spread rapidly through wealthier countries through the normal movement of people.

It should be a reason to improve it, not diminish it.

 

[Derpus]

Trump did it at the start of February at the same time as Australia. A number of other countries had already done it prior to that.

A lot of what the WHO does is in the developing world (much like most UN organisations) and probably has the most experience dealing with outbreaks of ebola and other diseases localised in one spot. Clearly it has been found pretty lacking in dealing with a pandemic that spread rapidly through wealthier countries through the normal movement of people.

It should be a reason to improve it, not diminish it.

Ay and healthy criticism is required for that.

I guess my concern is that, if it really is just a political plaything for the US/China can it be improved?

 

[Braveheart81]

Ay and healthy criticism is required for that.

I guess my concern is that, if it really is just a political plaything for the US/China can it be improved?

I think it has to be. It's essentially the main line of defence we have to monitor future pandemics that aren't solely reliant on the country where the initial outbreak happens.

 

[Tex]

The lion's share of WHO's work is done on the ground via its regional offices, supporting developing countries to build more robust public health systems and promoting community-level healthcare. Removing funding from the head office just means that fewer communities without any meaningful health systems continue to lose kids to dysentery and adults to preventable illnesses.

My best guess (and hope) is that Trump is pulling another crude negotiating lever in order to force change. He did it with the NATO bloc over defence spending, he did it with China and the tariff war last year, and it looks like he's doing the same here.

 

[Tex]

Worth noting that WHO also has little if any 'sticks' to force compliance of their host countries. They're essentially an advisor and have to operate at the whim of the local system, which in many cases might not be the most transparent or engaged in the same aims.

 

[Derpus]

Thoughts on compulsory tracking app?

My distrust of government and bureaucracy say no but my social conscience says yes.

 

[Tex]

My data has been ejaculated all across the internet to the benefit of facebook and google's shareholders. at least this invasion of privacy will hopefully result in me being let out of my house arrest sooner than if we keep muddling through as we are

 

[Braveheart81]

Thoughts on compulsory tracking app?

My distrust of government and bureaucracy say no but my social conscience says yes.

I'm not onboard. Our government has a poor track record with any sort of data tracking/privacy stuff.

 

[Derpus]

I'm not onboard. Our government has a poor track record with any sort of data tracking/privacy stuff.

Yeah i opted out of MyHealth and generally avoid giving them data where possible.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah i opted out of MyHealth and generally avoid giving them data where possible.

Me too.

The abuse of the metadata retention which was introduced under the guise that it would be used to fight serious crime like terrorism and child exploitation proved to be completely bogus. The information is handed out to pretty much any organisation that asks for it.

 

[Tex]

Also, it's going to depend heavily on what's being collected. I read that's it's based on the Singaporean system (they've got a solid record of authoritarian anti-democratic control) and it uses bluetooth records of phones that have been in close contact for a sustained time.

 

[Up the Guts]

I have no interest in the government being able to track me. However, I feel most others will say bring it on if it gets them out of the house.

I'd also like to see clear evidence presented at the end of all this that any police powers gained in the process of enforcing social distancing have been wound back.

 

[Tex]

Hell yes. The police down here are pushing wayyyy too far with their discretionary powers. A woman was aggressively questioned about why her daughter was playing in the front yard and not the back.

Now, I'm happy with complying with this shit for the greater good - to an extent. But every time they do shit like that I'm inclined to comply less and less

 

[Derpus]

Hell yes. The police down here are pushing wayyyy too far with their discretionary powers. A woman was aggressively questioned about why her daughter was playing in the front yard and not the back.

Now, I'm happy with complying with this shit for the greater good - to an extent. But every time they do shit like that I'm inclined to comply less and less

Community engagement has never been a police forte in Aus. Too busy making 13 year old kids strip and pop a squat.

 

[Up the Guts]

Hell yes. The police down here are pushing wayyyy too far with their discretionary powers. A woman was aggressively questioned about why her daughter was playing in the front yard and not the back.

Now, I'm happy with complying with this shit for the greater good - to an extent. But every time they do shit like that I'm inclined to comply less and less

The cops were sitting outside the exit of my local suburban Sydney shopping centre checking licence plate location details last Sunday afternoon. This just screams revenue raising given plate checking was meant to be brought in so police could check whether cars heading out of Sydney weren’t holidaymakers going to regional areas.

The best way to set in social distancing fatigue early is get under the public’s skin with overbearing policing.

 

[Froggy]

I will definitely be downloading the app, people lives and livelihoods are a lot more important than some sort of pseudo privacy. The idea that this will give anyone more information on you than Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple et al have already have is misguided.
Besides which, I don't deal drugs, I'm not a Russian spy and there's no 25 year old blonde that wants to have a covert affair with me, so there's not a whole lot to hide!

 

[Tex]

Episode 213124 in 'America is a Failed State'

https://www.theguardian.com/global/...o-michigans-coronavirus-lockdown-orders-video

Thousands of protesters in cars and on foot have flouted Michigan’s stay-at-home orders to demand the state reopened. ‘It’s time for our state to be opened up’ said one protester in her car. ‘We’re tired of not being able to buy the things that we need, go to the hairdressers. It’s time to open up’.