Declining participation and ARU plans for the future
- Thread starter RugbyReg
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Shutting down debate, just like Pulver wants to do.
GeeRob's piece in the SMH was a pretty good summary of things I though. Though I think it places the burden to compromise solely on the ARU, when in fact I think all parties need to be flexible.
The juniors argument is compelling, and if Papworth and co made it about that then they would have far more sympathy.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ed-each-other-to-survive-20161209-gt7ku4.html
GeeRob's piece in the SMH was a pretty good summary of things I though. Though I think it places the burden to compromise solely on the ARU, when in fact I think all parties need to be flexible.
The juniors argument is compelling, and if Papworth and co made it about that then they would have far more sympathy.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ed-each-other-to-survive-20161209-gt7ku4.html
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Great article.Good to see the mainstream press giving Manly Roos some great coverage. (Disclsoure it's my junior club).
I don't think that Pulver realises how many of us at the grass roots that he alienates with that "pissing up against the wall " comment.
I don't think that Pulver realises how many of us at the grass roots that he alienates with that "pissing up against the wall " comment.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Yes "the pissing up against the wall" comment was not helpful and I am sure he regrets making that comment.
But got to move on as I thought meeting a few weeks ago between ARU and Papworths, Poido's etc that progress was being made to work with the relevant bodies at different levels. As you might not be happy with ARU or SS members but you got to put aside petty ego's for sake of the game in this country. Begg and Papworth unfortunately do not seem to be doing this.
I really wonder whether they have read threads on here or moreso the roar and comments made my rugby supporters on how much they are alienating rugby supporters by their actions which are clearly not supported by the majority. I have to question their leadership credentials with the stupidity of some of their actions and damage they are doing to wider rugby interests in Australia with their petty F U actions. I mean I thought the amateur petition by Papworth and co and reaction to to it by broader rugby supporters would have helped them to grow up.
Rant over....won't comment any more as just going over old ground.....
Yeah agreed QH, but we all need to move past that.
I'd love to see Manly given more publicity throughout Australia - they are a shining light of what we can achieve when all levels work together.
The ARU should be looking to work with those guys and harness whatever it is they do, and hope other places can do the same thing!
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I'd love to see Manly given more publicity throughout Australia - they are a shining light of what we can achieve when all levels work together.
The ARU should be looking to work with those guys and harness whatever it is they do, and hope other places can do the same thing!
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I like to watch
David Codey (61)
How do you move past comments that show they don't value your contribution.
When their every action since,effects you adversely?
When their every action since,effects you adversely?
You do it because you are a functioning adult and it's in everyone's best interest to move past it.
Ultimately both parties will lose if the SS clubs go to war with the ARU.
I'd like to think the 'review' of the strategic plan may give some more help to clubs, which will hopefully ease some of the tensions.
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WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
I was recently informed that the particular development program was actually developed by the Roos themselves. Which is rather impressive I must say. If so, they should really look at putting together some sort of material for other junior clubs so they can look to do likewise.
I take a fairly significant interest in the development side of the game in the US and the Americas and something quite noteworthy is the initiative taken by those at the grassroots to build the game. While USA Rugby have their programs a great deal of the development work is being done by volunteers with a passion for the game. I think it's something we somewhat lack here in many respects but the Roos program is an excellent example of what can be achieved when someone looks to take it upon themselves to get the ball rolling, The more we get the game out to the wider community be it with Game On, Viva or the Roos program the healthier the game will be. So kudos to them.
Would be awesome if they could proliferate it among other clubs.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
it's clearly not in the SS clubs interest to just roll over.functioning adults can, and are entitled to voice their dissent.
I accept the new calendar goes too far,and is probably self sabotage.
I accept the new calendar goes too far,and is probably self sabotage.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
I've made no secret in the past that I'm against the idea of providing clubs with funding for unspecified purposes. I tend to be of the line of thought that such funding will manage to find its way into player payments more so than development. Not necessarily overtly so but by filling in the gaps in other areas to make it possible.
However, I am in favour of funding if and only if those funds are strictly invested into junior development. If those funds allow for each club to employ a junior development officer to either look to work with existing clubs both junior and senior within their respective catchements to grow participation or to undertake similar development actions as a means of club building. I have regular correspondence with Argentine members of various different BA clubs and wouldn't mind seeing the Shute clubs look to emulate these clubs in structure. All of these clubs and many others nationwide run multiple teams invevery age group from U6s up. This is something that if the Clubs want to improve their bottom lines they should be looking to do. And ideally the ARU should be looking to assist them in doing.
It would likely require a bit of future planning in order to address other areas of the city such as the South West and Macarthur etc but it should be achievable.
And it wouldn't need to be exclusively a Sydney based initative. Similar arrangements could be established across all the major cities. As with regions what funds that would be provided could be distributed to clubs to work with current regional DO's to increasing participation and accessibility.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
Yes, as a functioning adult you're entitled to voice your dissent but their are other ways to do so apart from what comes across as more of a temper tantrum than anything else.
Over on the Shute thread the start date for the 2016 season was posted as March 19th.
Just from that there is room to move the start of the season forward by 3 or four weeks to accommodate the extra 4 rounds and to come more into alignment with Super Rugby. Sure it would be a little inconvenient for a handful of clubs as they share grounds with Cricket but not beyond unworkable.
However, instead they have decided to go the other way which signals an intent and screams tantrum.
How do the Shute Shield Clubs work? Do they all have junior clubs under their direct control?
It's a bit of a mish mosh up here.
Brothers - Jnrs and Snrs hated each other for some time but finally have come together, driven by a really good Jnrs Committee from recent years who now are basically the snrs (and whole of club?) Committee.
Wests - only merged Jnrs and Snrs clubs recently.
Easts - have been joint for a while and seemingly running very well.
Norths - Jnrs and Snrs hated each other and couldn't work with each other for some time. Not sure if its rectified under the current leadership?
Sunnybank - similar to Easts, strong working relationship for some time.
Souths - again, seperate clubs (and facilities largely) for some time. Trying to work closer together but don't think it's formalised as yet.
GPS - separate clubs until fairly recently. Still a few teething problems but heading in the right direction.
Gold Coast / Bond Uni - no idea. No direct Jnr Club (Only Premier Grade, Premier Reserves and Premier Colts). Not sure if there's any relationship with the broader regional jnrs comp.
UQ - have no jnr club. Some very loose relationship with a few local clubs, but they seem to be know forming closer ties to wests.
Logan City - future club. I think they are the one club and seem to operate pretty well?
It's a bit of a mish mosh up here.
Brothers - Jnrs and Snrs hated each other for some time but finally have come together, driven by a really good Jnrs Committee from recent years who now are basically the snrs (and whole of club?) Committee.
Wests - only merged Jnrs and Snrs clubs recently.
Easts - have been joint for a while and seemingly running very well.
Norths - Jnrs and Snrs hated each other and couldn't work with each other for some time. Not sure if its rectified under the current leadership?
Sunnybank - similar to Easts, strong working relationship for some time.
Souths - again, seperate clubs (and facilities largely) for some time. Trying to work closer together but don't think it's formalised as yet.
GPS - separate clubs until fairly recently. Still a few teething problems but heading in the right direction.
Gold Coast / Bond Uni - no idea. No direct Jnr Club (Only Premier Grade, Premier Reserves and Premier Colts). Not sure if there's any relationship with the broader regional jnrs comp.
UQ - have no jnr club. Some very loose relationship with a few local clubs, but they seem to be know forming closer ties to wests.
Logan City - future club. I think they are the one club and seem to operate pretty well?
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
None of the Shute Shield clubs have a direct interest in the operation of the junior clubs that fall within their district. At least from my experience. There's a very loose association that extends to the provision of junior rep teams but that's largely it.
half
Alan Cameron (40)
Gotta agree with the smh article.
Just my opinion and contrary to most me thinks Popa Smurf has a point.
He has not argued his case well in the public domain.
The SS teams are a critical part of rugby, they have since the mid to late 90's been marginalized by the ARU.
Its a world wide trend that will end in tears if the ARU don't listen.
Don't laugh but we had Bredixt, Trump and if Sanders had run he would have wpn.
Essentially groups that once had some influence and still do a lot that goes unnoticed have had it with elites who are failing themselves and blame others.
Popa. Smurf is the tip of a large group who have seen a take over that is failing and they are effectively saying F U we can do it better so F O.
Many on this site for better or worse want to defend the ARU for what reason I don't know.
But if you think this is one out of touch know it all then everyone will be in for a rude shock.
Let me one more time remind everyone that FFA spent over five years in negotiations for its FFA Cup and everyone is behind it. The ARU spend a few months on the NRC and three years on abd its rusted on hard core only fans.
In closing BP should take this very seriously as Popa Smurf will win the war if it comes to that.
Just my opinion and contrary to most me thinks Popa Smurf has a point.
He has not argued his case well in the public domain.
The SS teams are a critical part of rugby, they have since the mid to late 90's been marginalized by the ARU.
Its a world wide trend that will end in tears if the ARU don't listen.
Don't laugh but we had Bredixt, Trump and if Sanders had run he would have wpn.
Essentially groups that once had some influence and still do a lot that goes unnoticed have had it with elites who are failing themselves and blame others.
Popa. Smurf is the tip of a large group who have seen a take over that is failing and they are effectively saying F U we can do it better so F O.
Many on this site for better or worse want to defend the ARU for what reason I don't know.
But if you think this is one out of touch know it all then everyone will be in for a rude shock.
Let me one more time remind everyone that FFA spent over five years in negotiations for its FFA Cup and everyone is behind it. The ARU spend a few months on the NRC and three years on abd its rusted on hard core only fans.
In closing BP should take this very seriously as Popa Smurf will win the war if it comes to that.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
The clubs at hand only represent a minortiy of the wider Rugby public. A public that largely has little to no connection with these clubs. Their base isn't as broad as they wish tp represent.
Furthermore, for the Shute Shield clubs to really force the ARU's hand they will need the Queensland clubs to go with them. Which considering how quickly the came out to quash any suggestion of their involvement in the mooted Club alternative to the NRC.
While the ARU holds the opportunities for players to progress toward professionalism then they not the clubs have the upperhand. If the ARU decided to establish an alternative structure and proceeded to mandate that in order to progress you must play in that structure you would see the clubs lose a fair amount of talent fairly quickly. Which would then undermine one of their main calling cards for talent and that is elite competition.
Don't get me wrong, I believe the clubs have, do and should continue to play an important role in the developmemt process but not at the expense of what is good for the game as a whole. Those being the establishment of HP pathways and junior participation. Two areas in which the ARU have been addressing.
half
Alan Cameron (40)
Workingclass
Not sure were to start, let me try anyway.
For the first time in my life I got interested in the US election from about 12 to 15 months out.
I got caught up in the Sanders campain, and watched and listened to a lot if both left and right social media.
What was totally clear was those in charge of bith parties were out of touch with many many anery folk.
Australia is no different and neither are its parts life sporting groups.
Think Trump say 15 months ago and no one gave him a chance to last the first debate.
I will trt and look up a vid put up by a left learning YouTube channel and suggest you listen to the guy in the vid fron Brown university.
There is a lot of ill feeling out there towards the ARU an Alan Jones will tear the ARU apart.
There is an answer but a war if it comes to that will be won by Popa Smurf.
Not sure were to start, let me try anyway.
For the first time in my life I got interested in the US election from about 12 to 15 months out.
I got caught up in the Sanders campain, and watched and listened to a lot if both left and right social media.
What was totally clear was those in charge of bith parties were out of touch with many many anery folk.
Australia is no different and neither are its parts life sporting groups.
Think Trump say 15 months ago and no one gave him a chance to last the first debate.
I will trt and look up a vid put up by a left learning YouTube channel and suggest you listen to the guy in the vid fron Brown university.
There is a lot of ill feeling out there towards the ARU an Alan Jones will tear the ARU apart.
There is an answer but a war if it comes to that will be won by Popa Smurf.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
I don't know quite how to respond to this. I'm sorry mate but you're not putting forth a coherent argument in which I can respond. Your analogy bares no relevance to Rugby in Australia.
How exactly would Papworth and Co. go about fighting this war with no money or evidence of actually doing anything to benefit the game in the recent past. I know it's a small sample but across the sites I've seen including FB the majority are against this move. Under Pulver the game has begun to stabilise and if the Aus. Sports Commission is to be believe move forward for the first time in over a decade. It's Pulver who would enter any confrontations from a position of relative strength.
half
Alan Cameron (40)
Prehaps I was a tad over the top with the word war.
However assuming he does not have a point and that his friends like Alan Jones don't have influence is foolish.
You may not agree with him and think he is useless but the SS is ln 7,
Anyone who thinks he will go quietly into the night is wrong.
For starters he is on the Super radio network, Ss is on 7, Alan Jones is the top rating radio person in the country.
As to how what etc I have no idea but to assume he can be told to go away he very foolish.
'
However assuming he does not have a point and that his friends like Alan Jones don't have influence is foolish.
You may not agree with him and think he is useless but the SS is ln 7,
Anyone who thinks he will go quietly into the night is wrong.
For starters he is on the Super radio network, Ss is on 7, Alan Jones is the top rating radio person in the country.
As to how what etc I have no idea but to assume he can be told to go away he very foolish.
'