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Drugs in sport

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David Codey (61)
Yep the last para underlines my point.

"So whatever these guys were taking it is either a banned substance that is on the list or classified as a related substance to things that are on the list. "

How the hell does an NRL player or a Rugby player know which substances are "a related substance to things that are banned"?
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Yep the last para underlines my point.

"So whatever these guys were taking it is either a banned substance that is on the list or classified as a related substance to things that are on the list. "

How the hell does an NRL player or a Rugby player know which substances are "a related substance to things that are banned"?

Ring and ask ASADA. 15 year old swimmers manage it.

But no, these poor league players act like helpless babies and think that they don't have to check what drugs they are injecting. It is beyond pathetic.
 

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David Codey (61)
I think you are missing the point entirely.
You can't ring ASADA and get them to tell you which substances they don't yet know about, but will ban in the future.
If they ban it today,and you took it 2 years ago,are you really a drug cheat?
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Ring and ask ASADA. 15 year old swimmers manage it.

But no, these poor league players act like helpless babies and think that they don't have to check what drugs they are injecting. It is beyond pathetic.

I think the force in this is the word "injecting".
I may be naive but I am prepared to think that once you start injecting anything you've crossed a line and it should be evident to you that nature did not intend us to acquire anything by injection.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
The word Injecting gets the emotions going, but its not unusual for football players (of all codes) to have injections. Some players rely on them to play each week. Also, peptides don't have to be injected - they can be taken in a cream or orally.

Michael Slater discussed this on radio this morning. He mentioned how the Aus cricket players would go on a specific regime of vitamins, pro-biotics, innoculations etc. before some overseas tours. The players just trust the advice given to them. The fact that they are administered wholesale to large parts of the squad makes it easier for the individual to believe its all ok.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
The asada web site outlines the process they follow in these cases. It's lengthy and comprehensive (http://www.asada.gov.au/rules_and_violations/process.html). What's more, we are unlikely to know much more until the process is essentially complete. Finally, (according to Roy masters) the NRL and afl can deduct points in hindsight for any team that has won games with players who are subsequently found guilty by asada. Asada can push for teams to be suspended where the doping was systematic.

So the NRL is stuffed as far as I can tell. They are sitting on a bomb, the sharks are the beginning but they are going o have a hell of a mess to clean up later in the season if even half of the six clubs are found guilty by asada. Even if its only one, they have a big problem. What's more there is nothing they can do, asada is rightly protected and rightly following wada protocols and will work at their own speed. whats more the nrl cant even be proactive on suspensions. What a pity rugby isn't strong enough to capitalise. The NRL thrives on controversy though, always has.

I still have concerns about the fairness of the situation for individual players in the context but the asada process seems sound.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
John Lawler, head of ACC has been interviewed.
Summary of his statements in the Roy Masters column from the SMH.

Why the Press Conference?
Firstly, someone could have died. There were injections given to players by non-qualified people of substances not meant for human use, where the doctor didn't know anything about it.
The second reason was to put a shot across the bows of the criminals regarding the sale of performance-enhancing drugs to professional athletes.
The third reason for going public was to get players to come forward and make self-disclosure.

Why the date?
It was dictated by intelligence findings.
An earlier date was planned but a premature announcement would have compromised an ongoing investigation

Why the Pollies?
They were always going to be involved. There needed to be additional resources to ASADA

Gains in the past 5 weeks
The things we wanted to happen have.
The codes have set up their own integrity units
They have banned sports scientists from injecting players.
The role of doctors in clubs has now been reversed.
The Therapeutic Goods Administration have made changes regarding the supply of peptides online
The Victorian Police has established a sport integrity unit
No one, including young and impressionable players, would not ask questions when about to be injected with a possibly dangerous drug.
Further people have come forward.

Read more:http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/why-did-we-act-players-lives-were-in-jeopardy-20130318-2gb98.html#ixzz2Ny2Jggs0

I am convinced that there are issues involving Mr Danks, injections and use of dodgy if not banned substances by some/many athletes.

The 3 reasons quoted are IMHO hardly compelling.
1. Driving to training is dangerous and someone could die. Repeated concussions are also dangerous and a player could die.
2. To have a go at organised crime. What about the greater profits and misery caused by Organised Crime selling their usual range of drugs on the street? Where are they going to make the most money - Selling to 20 million "normal" Australians, or to 2000 professional athletes?
3. We know you may have been doing it, but we have no evidence and can't be bothered doing the necessary investigatory legwork.

The Pollies
Are there Federal ministers at every "we're going to get tough on drugs" announcement?
Why this one in particular?

The Gains
Did you need all the grandstanding, bully-boy tactics over the codes and to besmirch the reputation of ALL Australian athletes to achieve those gains?

IMHO there are far more effective and efficient ways of achieving all of the claimed gains without all the posturing and grandstanding.

For all my grandstanding, the statement "No one, including young and impressionable players, would not ask questions when about to be injected with a possibly dangerous drug." is very relevant and is a major preventative measure that has come out of this whole fiasco. Unfortunately given the society that we are in, and the amount of money and glory involved, some young and impressionable, will still ignore that message and indulge in these practices in the pursuit of glory and recognition.

As said earlier, this important message could have been delivered without all the grandstanding.

Another good thing that this has done is that it did sell out Shark Park. A boost for their coffers which are apparently rather empty.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Good call Hugh Jarse
The longer it goes with no "big announcement" the more contrived it looks and the more these guys are just meat in the sandwich.
I think it was Warren Ryan who observed on Sunday arov that the whole thing was motivated by shaking the tree to see what fell out.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
By all accounts (rumour only - but this whole thing is based around rumours and snitching on your mates), AFL is in more do do than NRL are, however they would appear to be dealing with the issue more effectively (at the moment anyway).

Alternatively the media in NSW don't give a tinkers cuss about reporting anything that happens sporting wise south of the Murray River. Apparently the Aust F1 GP was held last weekend.

It will be interesting to see what happens when they have their "Sharks" moment, and how that is handled. Or have they already had it with the Essendon revelations?
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
AFL is in more do do than NRL are, however they would appear to be dealing with the issue more effectively (at the moment anyway).
It will be interesting to see what happens when they have their "Sharks" moment, and how that is handled. Or have they already had it with the Essendon revelations?

Its all "in house" I think. Melbourne's a lot more civilised in that way.
 

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David Codey (61)
.....

Why the Pollies?
They were always going to be involved. There needed to be additional resources to ASADA
So they are trying to ruin the careers of a dozen or so young men, with apparently no proof yet.
And the motivation is that someone in ASADA is empire building?
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
So they are trying to ruin the careers of a dozen or so young men, with apparently no proof yet.
And the motivation is that someone in ASADA is empire building?
So the reasoning is " if you give us more money we'll get you some quality air time".
Anyone smell a motive for this shameless beat up which is tantamount to bullying the boofheads into a confession?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
So they are trying to ruin the careers of a dozen or so young men, with apparently no proof yet.
And the motivation is that someone in ASADA is empire building?

Cronulla management sacked sacked 5 people because, in the words of their chairman, they were 'injecting players with equine substances'.

How can this be contrived as ASADA empire building.
 

Rob42

John Solomon (38)
Cronulla management sacked sacked 5 people because, in the words of their chairman, they were 'injecting players with equine substances'.

How can this be contrived as ASADA empire building.

Because there are hundreds if not thousands of amateur gym-junkies who inject themselves with substances designed for horses, or sheep, or cattle, on a regular basis, and it's not a new problem. Plenty of substances that these amateurs use are far more dangerous than the "horse substances" that have been mentioned in the papers. Example: self-injection of insulin for non-diabetics - get that wrong and you'll be in a coma in less than half an hour.

The drug problem in amateur gyms and the like is far more concerning than any number of professional athletes being injected with peptides and the like, which in all likelihood do nothing.

All this fuss "because an athlete might have died"? Give me a break. Amateur bodybuilders do die - give the money to Police and Customs and help them sort it out.
 

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David Codey (61)
Cronulla management sacked sacked 5 people because, in the words of their chairman, they were 'injecting players with equine substances'.

How can this be contrived as ASADA empire building.
First of all, this is the same Chairman that had to resign?
Cronulla are in damage limitation mode and got rid of anyone remotely related to this issue.
They are panicking because it is possible that IF all the players are found to be guilty the Club may cease to exist.The no risk strategy is to write off this season, and get the players to confess regardless of the circumstances.
In terms of ASADA, calling the press conference before they have a provable case, ensured them budget increases.What is that if it is not empire building?
How long since the press conference and no one has been charged yet?
If the only convictions ASADA can get, is by vilifying a group in public, then get them to a negotiated confession whereby they are not out of pocket if they confess, but may end up broke if they do not.
Then they are not worth having.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I really loved this bit:

Gains in the past 5 weeks
blah blahThe role of doctors in clubs has now been reversed.
blah blah


Bloody Hell, lookout. The role of Doctors in Clubs has been reversed.

Here's dumb old me thinking that the role of Doctors was to assist with rehab, make sick/injured players healthy and ready to return to the field, and to provide general medical advice to the Club and players.

Now the clever folk at the ACC appear to have redefined the role of Doctors in Clubs to:
a. make healthy players sick/injured and keep them off the field,
b. keep injured players in a rehab program, and
c. withhold general medical advice from the players and club.

BRILLIANT. Norman Einstein and all the other jeanius's at the ACC - take a bow. Love your work.

 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
./...snip.../.

All this fuss "because an athlete might have died"? Give me a break. Amateur bodybuilders do die - give the money to Police and Customs and help them sort it out.

How many Athletes have died from PED/injections?

How many Athletes have taken their own lives recently? Without naming names, my house to a knob of goatship that the answer to that is More than the answer to the first question.

Where would the friends and families of the deceased prefer that the $ for preventative measures be directed?

How many Athletes have ruined their lives through "recreational" drugs and other substance abuse (and gambling)?
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Because there are hundreds if not thousands of amateur gym-junkies who inject themselves with substances designed for horses, or sheep, or cattle, on a regular basis, and it's not a new problem. Plenty of substances that these amateurs use are far more dangerous than the "horse substances" that have been mentioned in the papers. Example: self-injection of insulin for non-diabetics - get that wrong and you'll be in a coma in less than half an hour.

The drug problem in amateur gyms and the like is far more concerning than any number of professional athletes being injected with peptides and the like, which in all likelihood do nothing.

All this fuss "because an athlete might have died"? Give me a break. Amateur bodybuilders do die - give the money to Police and Customs and help them sort it out.



Yes, let's do that, the police and customs have such a terrific track record when it comes to recreational drugs.

I think that image enhancing and performance enhancing are both very large but separate problems. Gym junkies choose drugs, whereas cycling has shown us that some professional sports demand you take them if you want a career.

I agree with you Rob42 about the danger of drugs. I think people perceive that athletes take one steroid tablet with their morning orange juice and jog out to the track where they break a world record or two. The miserable reality is that drug cheats need to take as many as 25 different substances each day to remain competitive and to continue reaching peak performances. Such drugs as Boldabal H, a penis shrinking steroid that states it shouldn't be given to animals 28 days before slaughter for human consumption, or Cheque Drops, a drug used for competitive aggression that is a steroid designed to prevent dogs going into heat or Tribolin 75, a potent anabolic for geldings. There are anti-catabolics, anti-oestrogens, potassium and nitrogen balancers, Androgenic steroids for repairing cartilaginous tissue, peptides, insulin, K.H.3 for tendonitis, up reglators for beta receptors and of course teststerone. Everyone would like their kid to be a successful pro sportsman, but if you really knew how much of this stuff is out there, you would buy them a crochet kit rather than a football or shot put.
 
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