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England v Australia, Sunday 19 November 2:00am AEDT

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Pomme de Terre

Frank Row (1)
The reason the Wobs lost? - The Gods haven't yet forgotten the Fox Sport Australia video mocking the Pom team.
Today we had the rub of the green but next time .......who knows?
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Rugby Union needs to take a look at NRLs bunker system, far better then what occurs at the moment with the TMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes a lot of clarity and transparency. They know exactly what they are looking for rather than trying to find reasons not to award the try.
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
On the line is out. Full stop. 3 decisions England's way and at least as many against us. If Eddie is soaking up the glee after that performance then good luck to him.
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
It’s because Hanigan was hooked at 40

Yeah, nah. He was fine. Interestingly I was with Owen Finegan last night and he reckons Ned is the right call even with Dempsey fit. Perhaps some Randwick bias there but at least he rates him. He's certainly not a Bernard fan though!!
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
^^^^Edit: With the disclaimer that the lack of a quality 6 is an issue. He thinks grooming one of the big islanders (Tui/Timani/Naisarani,etc) is the longer term solution but Ned is match ready for the job now, hence his continued selection.
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Rugby Union needs to take a look at NRLs bunker system, far better then what occurs at the moment with the TMO, the time it takes them to make a call and the lack of consistency of those calls is a blight on the game.

That been said, Wallabies lost that game not the referee, England got stronger with the subs, Australia got worse. But I don’t entirely blame the subs, Australia looked to have lost their composure around the 55min mark, there was no real structure in attack, there were multiple phases where Genia looked up for a forward runner and no one was in position, players were walking everywhere. It looked like something was about to break, and having that try denied was the final straw it seems.

From what I read the Bunker system in League gets everybody upset too, well the arguments we see on TV anyway. The only way we will have nobody upset with the ref if all supporters only are allowed to watch games their team win!! I think that test shows how in test rugby if a team switches off in last few minutes how quickly game can blow out. I thought England were definitely better team (mainly because of loose forwards) but they didn't seem that much better than Wallabies. that last few minutes blew it all out!
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I don't think O'Keefe was horrible, he just bottled a few big calls.

My question, which I have often posed, is about the appointments process. This was (by ranking) the biggest game of the Northern Autumn. Why wasn't it given the best referee?

Why wasn't Nigel Owens on this game? It's just criminal not to put your best man on this game, and O'Keefe is far from that. He's a nice up-and-comer, but you don't blood youngsters in big games - it's just as true for players as it is for refs.
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TSR

Mark Ella (57)
I don't think O'Keefe was horrible, he just bottled a few big calls.

My question, which I have often posed, is about the appointments process. This was (by ranking) the biggest game of the Northern Autumn. Why wasn't it given the best referee?

Why wasn't Nigel Owens on this game? It's just criminal not to put your best man on this game, and O'Keefe is far from that. He's a nice up-and-comer, but you don't blood youngsters in big games - it's just as true for players as it is for refs.
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I thought Enever handled it better than O’Keefe.
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
I don't think O'Keefe was horrible, he just bottled a few big calls.

My question, which I have often posed, is about the appointments process. This was (by ranking) the biggest game of the Northern Autumn. Why wasn't it given the best referee?

Why wasn't Nigel Owens on this game? It's just criminal not to put your best man on this game, and O'Keefe is far from that. He's a nice up-and-comer, but you don't blood youngsters in big games - it's just as true for players as it is for refs.
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I agree with this entirely. I'm not at all suggesting he was biased but it seems he was installed there to succumb to the pressure of the home unions and the home crowd and a whingeing Farrell to ensure an England win in the event of a close game. Which, despite the scoreline, it was. Job done World Rugby.
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
I don't think O'Keefe was horrible, he just bottled a few big calls.

My question, which I have often posed, is about the appointments process. This was (by ranking) the biggest game of the Northern Autumn. Why wasn't it given the best referee?

Why wasn't Nigel Owens on this game? It's just criminal not to put your best man on this game, and O'Keefe is far from that. He's a nice up-and-comer, but you don't blood youngsters in big games - it's just as true for players as it is for refs.
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Only trouble with that Barbs, that according to many here Owens is no good anyway! Though I do tend to agree with what you say, although Owens doing the French/Bok game that was probably just as important to those 2 teams.
 

Alex Sharpe

Chris McKivat (8)
From what I read the Bunker system in League gets everybody upset too, well the arguments we see on TV anyway. The only way we will have nobody upset with the ref if all supporters only are allowed to watch games their team win!! I think that test shows how in test rugby if a team switches off in last few minutes how quickly game can blow out. I thought England were definitely better team (mainly because of loose forwards) but they didn't seem that much better than Wallabies. that last few minutes blew it all out!

An NRL style bunker is an absolute no go. For such a simple, objective set of rules they seem to have more mind blowing decisions tarnishing the outcome of a game than we do. I think we just have to trust the training of the referees and TMO's to ultimately produce the correct decisions. I think the Aussies have every right to feel hard done by here. Three tries referred to the TMO. All with genuine arguments for and against. They went England's way all three times. On top of that, Kurtley Beale gets yellow carded for instinctively putting his hand out to a ball in mid air, while Itoji blatently slaps the ball out of Genia's hand and doesn't get spoken to, just penalised. Reminds me a bit of the corresponding test in 2014 when an English winger caught the ball in row 3 of the grandstand while managing to not be seen by the assistant referee, before setting up a match defining try. The English seem to consistently get the rub of the green. The Wallabies should be frustrated rather than dispirited with that game, because they really should have won it. They looked far more effective with the ball in hand but just could not put it on the scoreboard. Eddie Jones looked a little to smug at the end of the test for me. I think he knew the wallabies beat themselves. England the beneficiaries.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
It's a hard game to analyse as a Wallabies fan. My feelings are very mixed.

We were without Coleman and Folau. It was a dreary Twickers, with driving rain. It was a game we should have lost....... and we did.

England are a very good side. Their game plan was perfect for the conditions, but to our credit we put them under pressure time and time again.

Our defence was good, especially on the scramble. Our scrum was great. Our forward play was good. Our handling was poor, but in those conditions it's forgiveable.

We had a few moments to reach out and take the game, but we just couldn't. It's not the fault of any one player or coach. The bounce of the ball went England's way, but they were the better team. We had our chances but couldn't take them.

England are a better team than us, for sure. But despite the scoreline I think we're closer to them than where we were last year. Which is not that satisfying, but it is something.
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TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Jokes aside, I may be alone here, but I thought most of the big calls were right.

The yellow card on Hooper seemed harsh, but I think he called 4-5 penalty advantages in the one passage of play on our line. If the situations were reversed I would want a yellow, otherwise you essentially send the message that if under penalty advantage the best thing to do is keep giving away more penalties to avoid letting in a try.

Beale’s looked to me a clear yellow in real time. In slow mo his palms do appear pointing up - but I still don’t believe he has trying to catch the ball.

Hooper’s offside for the try was again hard to avoid - he can’t stop on a dime - but by the letter of the law it is offside. He is not able to advance prior to being put inside.

I don’t think you could conclusively say that the ball hit the line on England’s try, so it was fair to award it.

The only one I think wasn’t handled correctly is Koriobete’s try. O’Keefe asked to see if the defenders were onside. I don’t believe the video ref ever played the correct angles yet he said he was satisfied that Robshaw was. I think later replays have clearly showed he wasn’t. At that point it is at least a penalty to Australia. But - in my mind - if Robshaw is offside he has no right to impede Koriobete and, therefore Moore’s position is irrelevant, and there was no other defender there to make the tackle. I think it should have been a try.

But that’s rugby. We had enough chances to win and we didn’t. The ref didn’t drop any balls, miss any tackles or not chase hard enough on kicks.

I do congratulate Cheika on his direct comments to the press. Unfortunately he has painted a huge target on himself and they were needling him to blow up, but I enjoyed watching him turn the tables and call them out on it.
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
I fell asleep and missed the match. Probably for the best by the looks of the highlights package.

Just quickly though,Koribeti was most definitely not offside in Hooper's try (if that was the reason it was disallowed).

Edit- if it was Hooper as the offender then he was a mile offside and correct call.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Interesting some of the comments on Hooper. The yellow card thing is tough. Yes you’d like him to clean the up, but not many of them are dumb from memory (last weeks was - but apart from that). Maybe some careless. But a lot just come from having such a high involvement rate and referees issuing a lot more cards than they did even 5 years ago.

Despite his card, I thought he was superb yesterday.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
So I'm catching the highlights and the disallowed Hooper try (in front of Kuridrani when he grubbers) and am slightly confused. Did Koroibete not put other players onside when he ran through and made contact? He was certainly in front of Hooper when he played the ball.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
If we lost 16-6 I could have been happy with that loss, as much as you can be happy with a loss... but conceding 3 tries in the last 8 minutes was a bit of a capitulation and left a sour taste in my mouth..
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
More than half the team had a good game? Drop them down a peg.

Good: Kepu, Koriobete
Okay: Sio, TPN, McMahon
Low pass: Hooper, Hodge, Enever, Foley, Kuridrani
Poor: Simmons, Beale, Genia, Kerevi, Hanigan

Kiap, I'd have McMahon in the good category, drop Foley to Poor and elevate Kerevi to Low pass. Otherwise, agree.
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
Kiap, I'd have McMahon in the good category, drop Foley to Poor and elevate Kerevi to Low pass. Otherwise, agree.

Maybe I had my Waratah coloured glasses on but I thought Foley was OK sans the missed penalty goal. Hodge proved that missing a crucial kick for touch isn't a flaw confined to Foley.
 
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