EOYT 2016 - Possibles, probables and general banter

[Twoilms]

This is the internet, there will always be criticism.

This should be the first line of the internet bible.

 

[mst]

I think pretty long bow to draw that Koroibete's selection going to contribute to declining participation rates.

Young kids, and aspiring young Pacific Islander kids will also get inspired to play rugby because of its profile and stars in the game..and Koroibete is a star.

This is an argument neither side is going to probably win but I don't think it is necessarily bad.

If anything I respect Cheika more as he does what he thinks best to improve the wallabies even if it might cause some controversy. And lets face it where rugby was it can't stay the same which is the whole mantra things need to change and challenge the status quo. That includes with the wallabies. We have to do things differently and surely anyone who have read countless threads on here about the state of rugby have seen the general consensus on that.

Rugby has needed a kick up the arse to change its mindset to survive and better adapt in the professional era to what the modern day sports fan wants with increasing choices..and part of that at the moment in rugby does hinge on wallabies being successful given it earns the cash to support new initiatives as well as giving breathing space to implement other changes needed to grow rugby by grassroots initiatives. To be successful it needs to have a bit of that ruthless mindset which Cheika seems to bring.

If traditional rugby supporters get a bit upset by some of the changes driven by rugby being in a highly competitive professional arena...I am ok with that as we have to accept if rugby is going to be more successful and survive in this country retaining all what we use to do in the past won't cut it and will have to make some compromises that will make some uncomfortable. I think people are kidding themselves if the Koriobete selection will cause damage to rugby as yes causes a bit of controversy but storm in a tea cup as we have blooded ten new wallabies this year and also taking 4 development players on tour.

Sorry, can you elaborate how he is a star?

His NRL stats indicate a an ok winger ranked equal 20th with 7 other players in tries scored, who missed tackle rate is alarming, one of the top team didn't want to fight to keep him and is unproven in union.

Wallibies success that you refer to as the saviour of the game and cash cow is something even the ARU publicly acknowledge is not realistic thus all the cuts. Even the AB's are fighting to get more revenue to sustain the NZRU and that on top of healthy grassroots and Super Rugby franchises. So trying to use all that as part of the rational is ridiculous.

Tell me why he is better than some of the NRC wingers we saw perform really well and why he deserves a shot and they don't? We can see their performances relative to the challenges they face. With him its pure speculation.

History tends to repeat its lessons. Do you remember some Super Rugby coach who is a self confessed NRL fan and got in the next big thing when it comes to wingers? At the time it was controversial and upset people. Big, fast - try scoring machine, touted as the next Wallaby winger; even got a few caps. Where is he - who cares! Who picked him and brought him over?


Rise and repeat.

 

[mst]

That's a wee bit hyperbolic, in a year when ten new Wallabies have debuted, none of them from the NRL.

Which then begs the question why you need to import a unproven NRL player?

 

[mst]

If he is in the right position to be on the end of one overlap and score then even that is an improvement on the current situation.

I know, can you imagine it, a actual winger, with really limited union game experience is an improvement. Mind boggles at the possibilities of an experienced union winger like one of those slick NRC talents !

 

[Hawko]

I know, can you imagine it, a actual winger, with really limited union game experience is an improvement. Mind boggles at the possibilities of an experienced union winger like one of those slick NRC talents !

I'm not sure whether this is irony or not - its hard to tell on the internet.

Robinson was pretty good this year, Morahan was good but he was playing 15, I liked Jones but selectors further up don't seem to. But who are the absolute standout wingers in the NRC? Lots of players had breakout years in the 2016 NRC, but not many of them were wingers.

 

[mst]

I'm not sure whether this is irony or not - its hard to tell on the internet.

Robinson was pretty good this year, Morahan was good but he was playing 15, I liked Jones but selectors further up don't seem to. But who are the absolute standout wingers in the NRC? Lots of players had breakout years in the 2016 NRC, but not many of them were wingers.

A bit of both TBH.
a) having a winger playing wing for the Wallabies would be a plus IMHO, but then again it not often we use then backs except to return kicks etc etc...and who play players in position. Also to many good players to fit in to worry about position.
b) there were a few wingers that showed some signs in the NRC, but its hard to say one stood out, so add in our NRL friend and still nothing is jumping out. So all being equal they should all get a shot to see who has what needed.

Except the NRC guys don't get the benefit of what I now call the "Naiyaravoro" clause.

 

[Strewthcobber]

We have some fast guys going round, and we have some guys on the wing who can tackle, but we don't have too many fast guys who can tackle.

With DHP on one wing the other guy has to have a decent defence because he'll most probably be defending in the line.

Korobiete is fast, and he can definitely tackle. It remains to be seen if he can defend, but those too skills put him well above most of the other potential guys out there

 

[mst]

We have some fast guys going round, and we have some guys on the wing who can tackle, but we don't have too many fast guys who can tackle.

With DHP on one wing the other guy has to have a decent defence because he'll most probably be defending in the line.

Korobiete is fast, and he can definitely tackle. It remains to be seen if he can defend, but those too skills put him well above most of the other potential guys out there[/quote]

I vaguely recall we had some blokes that could do both, even played a bit for the Wallabies I think, but then got dropped for the next big thing from the NRL, not selected etc and left to go O/S.

I do have to ask what "other potential guys" out there are you referring to?

I think this is one of the key points about this - did he actually go and look for a winger? He has one right now that has one cap and hasn't really had a chance to be tested or Judged and seem to already relegated to the scrap heap. One of the standout wingers in the Aussie Super Rugby and Super Rugby in general this season.

 

[Mr Doug]

Question: Given that if Marika Koroibete gets a run with the Wallabies on the EOYT, can anyone tell me who was the last Australian player who's Rugby career included a High School match followed by a Wallabies match?!
(Marika has said that he hasn't played Rugby since he was at high school)!

Also, for those of you who feel that Luke Morahan should have been included in Cheika's Wallabies squad, he won't be far away, as he, along with Paddy Ryan, Toby Smith, and some other Aussie players, will join the Barbarians, (over there)!!

 

[Quick Hands]

If we win because the guy scores three tries, will there still be any criticism?

Probably not, but that doesn't make the process the right one. By all means sign guys from the NRL, I don't have a problem with more people playing rugby.

In isolation this might not be such a big deal - let's assume that he has the merit to be there for the purposes of the discussion. The problem with it from my perspective is its impact on the rugby culture - it's the same problem that I have with Giteau's law. What incentive do talented youngsters have to stay in Australian rugby if and when offered a European/Japanese deal if players from outside the super rugby pool are brought into the Wallabies?

This year for example, Cheika brought back a number of players and with the exception of Will Genia (who was one of our best) the rest performed no better than a younger player from the super sides would have done.

Whilst it's not wise to be all about process and not about outcomes, the reverse is also true. Where there is no clear process, things tend to unravel.

 

[Dalai Ninja]

Which then begs the question why you need to import a unproven NRL player?

Because he's potentially special?

You can count the number of special Wallabies on the fingers of one hand, and still have some left over for counting other things.

Unless we mean 'special'.

 

[mst]

Because he's good?

Based on what? His NRL stats don't suggest that, and the NRL seem rather non-plussed by him leaving. So it cant be either of them. And he hasn't played union since high school.

Maybe his fantasy footy stats say he is?

 

[Dalai Ninja]

Based on what? His NRL stats don't suggest that, and the NRL seem rather non-plussed by him leaving. So it cant be either of them. And he hasn't played union since high school.

Maybe his fantasy footy stats say he is?

Based on Cheika's opinion. That's why his badge says "Coach", and ours say "The Internet". If we want the authority to pick the team then some additional work is required, even if we are secretly better at it.

Personally I agree with him, but then I've watched Koroibete play. He has an ability to beat a man one-on-one that only Folau currently has in Australian rugby, and is significantly faster than any of our current wingers, except perhaps pre-knee Naivalu.

But this has all been discussed. Some of us agree with his his recruitment, and his selection, and some don't. I'd be less sanguine if we'd won more games this year.

 

[TOCC]

Because he's potentially special?

You can count the number of special Wallabies on the fingers of one hand, and still have some left over for counting other things.

Unless we mean 'special'.

Based on NRL performances in 2016, Jordan Rapana looks pretty special as well....

 

[dru]

Based on Cheika's opinion. That's why his badge says "Coach", and ours say "The Internet". If we want the authority to pick the team then some additional work is required, even if we are secretly better at it.

Personally I agree with him, but then I've watched Koroibete play. He has an ability to beat a man one-on-one that only Folau currently has in Australian rugby, and is significantly faster than any of our current wingers, except perhaps pre-knee Naivalu.

But this has all been discussed. Some of us agree with his his recruitment, and his selection, and some don't. I'd be less sanguine if we'd won more games this year.

I'm not concerned about Cheika running with a "Coach pick".

But I'm yet to be convinced that Koroibete is this "special" we are speaking about. I don't follow the NRL at all, I do have the highlights tape we've all viewed. He looks NRL capable.

But looking for "special" I ask mungo-mates. The reaction is almost universal, "Kora-who?". Then they dig deeper, "oh yeah, an OK winger in Melbourne, finishes well".

Not exactly a Thurston or Folau.

I'm up for giving him ago, but the hype (and WB squad selection) do
seem over-hyped.

 

[KOB1987]

You know, just out of curiosity I went back 11 pages, that's how long this Koroibete debate has been going on. That means about half the thread, and almost all of it since the squad was announced has been 'dedicated' to a discussion about the inclusion of a squad member who may not even get capped on this tour.

I vote that we shelve this debate until he actually gets selected for something.

 

[PeterK]

The Wallabies are a slow team. Overall there is not much pace especially in the backs.

That lack of pace has really cost the wallabies.

IMO a prime reason so many tackles were missed against NZ in the last game.

Naivalu is very fast , genuinely quick. I find it strange that he does not get a go, especially ahead of Speight who has never impressed at test level.

Koroibete is supposedly very quick as well. That would be one reason to get him in the ranks.
Also it is unknown how much the ARU paid, perhaps Rebels paid the larger portion.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Based on NRL performances in 2016, Jordan Rapana looks pretty special as well..

Was with the Brumbies some years ago. Big loss to rugby I think.

 

[Brumby Runner]

You know, just out of curiosity I went back 11 pages, that's how long this Koroibete debate has been going on. That means about half the thread, and almost all of it since the squad was announced has been 'dedicated' to a discussion about the inclusion of a squad member who may not even get capped on this tour.

I vote that we shelve this debate until he actually gets selected for something.

Not practical KOB. There'd be somone then suggesting the deed had been done and tnere'd be no good served by any comments that went against the selectors/coaches.

 

[mst]

Because he's potentially special?

You can count the number of special Wallabies on the fingers of one hand, and still have some left over for counting other things.

Unless we mean 'special'.

Based on NRL performances in 2016, Jordan Rapana looks pretty special as well..

11 tries and 17% less missed tackles better! Let alone less errors more line beaks.

One stat that is really interesting is that Koroibete appears to be a ball hog. No try assists, not many offloads.