Force v Waratahs, round 13, Saturday 9 May

[Brumby Runner]

Phipps was getting shit ball all night because the pigs were just too inaccurate at the cleanout, so we had to invest more to do the job of less;

and that leads to the usual two attacking pods (when it works) being one and that leads to less indecisive defense;

and that leads to tougher cleanouts being needed with more units needed;

and that leads to slower ball, less options and turnovers.

Just how many ball just popped out the side?

I think every one where Jackpot took it into contact.

 

[cyclopath]

Phipps was getting shit ball all night because the pigs were just too inaccurate at the cleanout, so we had to invest more to do the job of less;

and that leads to the usual two attacking pods (when it works) being one and that leads to less indecisive defense;

and that leads to tougher cleanouts being needed with more units needed;

and that leads to slower ball, less options and turnovers.

Just how many ball just popped out the side?

At least 3 I recall. Just sub-standard ball security.

 

[Quick Hands]

As an unbiassed and impartial observer I have to say that the Tahs defensive line was miles off side at most rucks. Was that you Kearnsey complaining about them being off side all night? No, I thought not.

As I said, the Hoff was consistent and fair - this could be said of the Force as well.

Lest I be accused of blaming the ref for the loss, I'll make the point that he had absolutely nothing to do with it. We lost it all by ourselves - or to put it another way, the Force won it all by themselves.

 

[Shiggins]

You shouldn't be, I'd be pissed off as a Farce fan. Beat the reigning champions twice and then lose every other game? It just proves you can perform but don't want to.

It proves the waratah's arnt what they're cracked up to be in my opinion

 

[Shiggins]

The Hoff was his usual self - consistent and fair. He seems to have no idea of the ruck and maul laws. When Skelton monstered Hodgson in the opening minutes it should have been play on as Hodgson wasn't bound to the maul, he was holding on with his hand only and not his arm - therefore he is not part of the maul, the maul is over and there are no offside lines. Hodgson was later incorrectly sin binned when as the tackler he stood up and played the ball. As for the scrum resets - if he's got no idea then he should follow the Poite doctrine.

Unfortunately I haven't seen many refs this year get the rucks and mauls right.

 

[KOB1987]

Really looking at it the force won convincingly considering the tahs had one solo effort for a try and the force missed plenty of easy points by the boot.

I'm really worried about the world cup.

I'm not. Well, not because of super rugby results anyway. Australia should really only have 4 max super teams.

 

[Shiggins]

I'm not. Well not, because of super rugby results anyway. Australia should really only have 4 max super teams.

We only have 3 teams that are performing and they arnt going the beat either. Our kickers are at a terrible percentage. It's embarrassing. Props in 3rd grade can kick more penalties then some of our top super rugby kickers

 

[redstragic]

I'm not. Well not, because of super rugby results anyway. Australia should really only have 4 max super teams.

I think we have the Cattle, just not the structure. The Reds are losing not for lack of talent. The Force showed last night they should be winning more than they do, what is getting in the way of success?

The league guys can field 15 teams for a really close nrl. They have got their structures right.

 

[Scoey]

Last World Cup we won the Super Rugby and then the tri Nations in the lead up and look how that ended up. Maybe if we lose everything in the lead up, we'll win the RWC?

 

[Gnostic]

Well after watching my recording of the game I've got to say the Tahs were outmuscled in the tackle. They also fell prey to the Force tactics in slowing the breakdown. They learnt absolutely nothing from their first round encounter with the Force. There was nothing different from the Force in that game to any other they have played. As one dimensional as the Force are the Tahs are as well, just in another way. Foley has improved his kicking from hand greatly this year, but nobody else has. The back three cannot kick effectively so unless Beale is back there there is no other option to return a kick except by running. If Beale is back there it is still worth kicking to him as history tells us its an even bet if he will knock it on or if he does catch it any kick in return will also be an even bet that it comes off the side or is a "chip" kick. In short the Tahs are as predictable as the Force, just in a different way.

As for the attack, the Tahs were limp against what is a risk free defensive line. None of the big ball carriers really made any impact and as such they barely made the gain line on many occasions. The Force defence was top class. IMO the Tahs attack would be greatly improve by dropping Beale to the bench. His first movement on every occasion is sideways. I ate humble pie last year with the effectiveness of Beale in a lot of games, not least of all the final. This year it just is not working and his defensive frailties are as apparent as ever. The Tahs would be far better off having a centre who could straighten the attack. The Brumbies with Coleman at 12 offer a far straighter attack than the Tahs, a bloke significantly smaller than Beale (who is also a better defender).

On the discipline front, the Tahs in the first half were attempting to clean out the ruck and generate some quicker ball. BUT the idiocy of Kepu "rucking" (to be nice about it) Mafi's arm because he was holding the ball was just plain stupid. Take half a step and stomp the shit out of his hand ON THE F*&^%^ BALL. It wouldn't be a penalty if he played the ball which was a metre away from his slipper work. Again the Tahs should have been prepared for this as it is exactly what happened in the first round and nobody will ever seriously accuse Foley's sides of having imagination or bring something different to the table.

The Tahs are no a serious chance of the title this year. They may make the finals if they are very lucky, but they are just not a complete side.

Finally, how does somebody get to be a professional referee without an understanding of the scrum. It really is an indictment on the ARU and member unions that the development pathways for referees have not been developed to allow our referees to be able to perform better. Hoffman was pretty average, and to his usual style and level, but is that is just evidence on how poorly the referees have been developed on an ongoing basis.

It doesn't bode well for the Wallabies if the Tahs cannot be armed with tactics to defeat a fully known opposition, no matter how well they execute that plan. It doesn't bode well for when they have to deal with an opposition that brings something they don't expect.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

just about covers it

 

[Gagger]

+1 for all of that Gnostic

random thoughts

The driving/rolling maul is now a joke that will bite us in the ass. We'll get to the RWC and lo and behold, refs will remember how to ref it and only teams who could always do it well will be able to use it (not us)

It doesn't matter if you're the tackler, if the ruck is formed before you get to your feet, YOU CANNOT PUT YOUR HANDS ON THE BALL. You would think that an ex international, professional commentator who apparently took a ref exam might know that.

It's time to admit it. As much as we still love him, Jackpot has been a disaster this season. He can't get past the gainline and I haven't seen ANYONE spill as much pill as he has. Time to rethink Japanese offseasons.

 

[Forcefield]

One thing I think Michael Foley deserves credit for is maul coaching. It was never a Force weapon until he came along. We did a pretty good job of disrupting the Waratah maul too. Maybe worth having him come in briefly as a specialist coach at Wallaby level to improve the Wallaby maul.

 

[Pfitzy]

It really is an indictment on the ARU and member unions that the development pathways for referees have not been developed to allow our referees to be able to perform better.

The pathway doesn't cater for the development of decent props (with limited contact/pushing at age group levels) so how will the refs learn any different?

I had a very experienced (old) referee adjudicating my 2nd grade side on the weekend. The opposing loosehead prop just stood up all day, and he ignored it. I told my THP at halftime to just put him on the deck until he stopped pissing around, and the ref just let it go even though the front rows were on the ground.

You're not going to get a decent approach to this area of the game until we have a better focus on the scrum as a whole.

 

[Nipper]

I'm not. Well, not because of super rugby results anyway. Australia should really only have 4 max super teams.

Why, do you think that will eliminate the two losses per year for the Tahs?

 

[KOB1987]

Why, do you think that will eliminate the two losses per year for the Tahs?

that's not even worth commenting on..

 

[brokendown]

you just did

 

[Scoey]

that's not even worth commenting on..

Touché is the word you were after I believe.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

they'd just invent another bogey team

 

[Forcefield]

I agree that there should have only been 4 teams. Take the Rebels talent and you have 4 highly competitive teams. Im only saying Rebels because they were the last in- nothing personal. But people should remember after 2007 (when the Tahs and Reds were shit) people were saying we didnt have the talent for 4 teams.

We will get to the point where we have the stocks for 5 strong teams. It will just take 2 or 3 years. In the mean time we have to live with 5 so no point complaining about it. Dropping a team would be a step vackwards.